Who do we think we are II ? (Full Version)

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MrRodgers -> Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 12:05:33 AM)

It's not a pretty picture.

Only 30% had "a great deal" or "quite a lot of confidence" in the Supreme Court. Just 29% felt that way about the presidency. And an abysmal 7% had faith in the Congress. Gallup.

79% of the American people believe corruption is widespread in government. That is a jump of 20 points since 2006, when 59% of the country thought government was corrupt (a year when the country was dissatisfied enough that the ruling Republicans lost control of both the House and Senate).

In January of this year, Gallup found that more Americans picked bad government and corruption as our biggest problem than picked any other challenge, including the economy and unemployment. These are stunning numbers.

When four out of five Americans believe government is corrupt, something is profoundly wrong. It is a lot bigger than Barack Obama or Hillary Clinton or for that matter George W. Bush.

A country in which 4 out of 5 people believe their government is corrupt is a country teetering between a populist uprising and a collapse into cynicism, passivity, and fatalism.
I believe we are already their or very close.

These results suggest we will either renew our commitment to the rule of law, the punishment of corruption and the insistence on honest self-government or we will cease to be America as the land of the free and the land of opportunity.

Most here will never believe who wrote this article.

Here

Furthermore on the hypocrisy of the right on the court and those appealing the contraceptive provisions in the ACA. Hobby Lobby invests in the drug companies that make the 'abortion drug.'

Here

America needs a political 'American Fall' very similar to the so-called...Arab Spring only...at the ballot box.




KenDckey -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 4:35:21 AM)

Although I agree that a political shakeup is in order, I sincerely hope that it doesn't happen with weapons. I would hope we get law enforcement officer and public officials in office that are motivated by the consititution and the law, not by politics.




hot4bondage -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 6:15:48 AM)

What baffles me is that most of us know that our government is rife with corruption, but half of us want to increase its size and scope. Why?




Musicmystery -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 6:21:21 AM)

Americans are too lazy to take action, let alone an extreme one.

Cynicism and fatalism is easier.




Musicmystery -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 7:56:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Although I agree that a political shakeup is in order, I sincerely hope that it doesn't happen with weapons. I would hope we get law enforcement officer and public officials in office that are motivated by the consititution and the law, not by politics.


Americans also have a culture of blaming while dodging responsibility. They keep electing douche bags, then whine about corruption.

Complaining about government doesn't work. Revolution in this context is just stupid. Americans deciding to take personal responsibility for the world and system in which they live, and doing so in responsible, proactive (vs. reactive Tea Party crap, for example) ways, is exactly what's needed, and the only real solution.

Today's range of 3rd Parties are by and large single issue platforms, better suited to political action committees. A viable 3rd Party needs to have a comprehensive platform, viable strategies for achieving it, and popular and financial support for implementing it.

Instead, what we have today are culture wars (you can't govern for part of the country -- just ask Iraq) that generate opposing unfeasible plans (for example, neither Republican nor Democrat proposals will reduce the national debt except in fantasy land).

But as long as Americans prefer pretty lies, selfishness over sustainability, short term over long term planning, getting the other guy over finding comprehensive solutions, trying to fight the world instead of embracing it, attitude over real negotiation, ideology over vision, we're going to stay stuck where we are, or make it worse.

Will the situation force a crisis? Maybe eventually. But despite our whining, we're very well off, and can afford a very long decline before such a crisis.

I hope we don't opt for that route. In the short run, though, nobody wants to budge from what's already not working.





Zonie63 -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 9:27:39 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: KenDckey

Although I agree that a political shakeup is in order, I sincerely hope that it doesn't happen with weapons. I would hope we get law enforcement officer and public officials in office that are motivated by the consititution and the law, not by politics.


Americans also have a culture of blaming while dodging responsibility. They keep electing douche bags, then whine about corruption.

Complaining about government doesn't work. Revolution in this context is just stupid. Americans deciding to take personal responsibility for the world and system in which they live, and doing so in responsible, proactive (vs. reactive Tea Party crap, for example) ways, is exactly what's needed, and the only real solution.

Today's range of 3rd Parties are by and large single issue platforms, better suited to political action committees. A viable 3rd Party needs to have a comprehensive platform, viable strategies for achieving it, and popular and financial support for implementing it.

Instead, what we have today are culture wars (you can't govern for part of the country -- just ask Iraq) that generate opposing unfeasible plans (for example, neither Republican nor Democrat proposals will reduce the national debt except in fantasy land).

But as long as Americans prefer pretty lies, selfishness over sustainability, short term over long term planning, getting the other guy over finding comprehensive solutions, trying to fight the world instead of embracing it, attitude over real negotiation, ideology over vision, we're going to stay stuck where we are, or make it worse.

Will the situation force a crisis? Maybe eventually. But despite our whining, we're very well off, and can afford a very long decline before such a crisis.

I hope we don't opt for that route. In the short run, though, nobody wants to budge from what's already not working.


The reason why third parties generally fail is because too many people see it as a "wasted vote," as they consider their best bet is to vote on the lesser of two evils. What this means is that people typically do not vote for a candidate as much as they're voting against the other candidate.

I agree that the problem lies with the voters. Most are too short-sighted, weak-willed, and simple-minded to be able to vote intelligently. As I said in the other thread with this title, it's too easy to blame the politicians. No doubt the politicians deserve a lot of blame, but the voters need to get smarter.

I think what floors me about all of this is that people who are older and wiser than I am are acting like this is some huge surprise, as if they never saw it coming. During the 80s and early 90s, I had to put up with people stridently talking about how "great" everything was and how "America was better off," and yet, where are all these people now? Why couldn't they see it coming?




Musicmystery -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 9:45:17 AM)

Begs the question. It's a "wasted vote" because they can't govern once they get there, so there's never going to be the build up of support.

And for what it's worth, my circle has been seeing it coming since the 1980 election.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 10:42:49 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers

America needs a political 'American Fall' very similar to the so-called...Arab Spring only...at the ballot box.



"The power of the vote" is a romantic anachronism. It's going to take a real revolution (hopefully a bloodless one. Large-scale civil disobedience, etc.)







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?




Musicmystery -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 10:49:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

"The power of the vote" is a romantic anachronism.


Why?

Voters still choose the candidates, and even locally in the primaries and caucuses.

They could help by choosing people instead of parties.

Eric Canter certainly got a lesson in it.





DaddySatyr -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 10:50:51 AM)


I don't believe our votes have truly counted since at least 1996.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?




Musicmystery -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 11:06:21 AM)

You're still going to need a better argument than mere cynicism.




Domnotlooking -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 11:07:17 AM)

The 79% of whiney overpriveleged children called Americans need to:

-visit a country where corruption is for real so they can stop talking out of their fatuous asses

- get down on their knees and thank god for the random gift from god of being an American

-aquaint themselves with basic reality and/or the political process

I agree with the Moose Man; cake, eat it never really works out. We like grid lock, we insist on it.




Musicmystery -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 11:14:23 AM)

OK....a lesson for all you city folk. . .








Caribou

<---------------





Moose
|
|
|
\/

[image]http://sardinereport.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/moosedm2003_468x440.jpg[/image]




mnottertail -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 11:17:52 AM)

And while we are at it....not a socialist.

[image]local://upfiles/61037/9D7F1F0ED15C49EF95E1B90EF81356E0.jpg[/image]




Musicmystery -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 11:19:11 AM)

Not socialist either:

[image]http://brewpublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/bullwinklerocky2.jpg[/image]




mnottertail -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 11:21:33 AM)

But; a moose, not a caribou.




vincentML -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 11:23:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Domnotlooking

The 79% of whiney overpriveleged children called Americans need to:

-visit a country where corruption is for real so they can stop talking out of their fatuous asses

- get down on their knees and thank god for the random gift from god of being an American

-aquaint themselves with basic reality and/or the political process

I agree with the Moose Man; cake, eat it never really works out. We like grid lock, we insist on it.

You are delusional thinking corruption is not rampant in our political system. Lobbyists and PACs do not spend all that money on elections without expecting a quid pro quo beyond access and a politician's eagerly ready ear.

regardless of recent events to the contrary in low voter turn out primaries incumbents rarely lose elections, and incumbency begets power on Congressional committees which in turn attracts more money from special interests. There is The kink in our democratic chain that leads to citizen distrust and despair.




Musicmystery -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 11:26:13 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

But; a moose, not a caribou.

Yes.

And a squirrel, not a chipmunk.




mnottertail -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 11:26:42 AM)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f4CyQto-0E




Musicmystery -> RE: Who do we think we are II ? (7/7/2014 11:29:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML


quote:

ORIGINAL: Domnotlooking

The 79% of whiney overpriveleged children called Americans need to:

-visit a country where corruption is for real so they can stop talking out of their fatuous asses

- get down on their knees and thank god for the random gift from god of being an American

-aquaint themselves with basic reality and/or the political process

I agree with the Moose Man; cake, eat it never really works out. We like grid lock, we insist on it.

You are delusional thinking corruption is not rampant in our political system. Lobbyists and PACs do not spend all that money on elections without expecting a quid pro quo beyond access and a politician's eagerly ready ear.

regardless of recent events to the contrary in low voter turn out primaries incumbents rarely lose elections, and incumbency begets power on Congressional committees which in turn attracts more money from special interests. There is The kink in our democratic chain that leads to citizen distrust and despair.

That citizen aspect is often silent or muted while the lobby and PAC crowd are active.

No Congress member is going to ignore 700,000 letters and calls from constituent.

But most people have NEVER contacted their representatives.

MOST. That's a lot of silence.




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