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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/8/2014 1:52:00 PM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why is Israel supposed to allow 3,356 rockets to be fired at it without reacting.

Perhaps if israel were to react with negotiators instead of bombs it might be more productive for someone other than the arms manufacturers.





How many more would there be without Israel striking back,


Consideering that israel has gaza quarentined and thus knows where and how many there are it would seem pretty simple to subtract how many fired from how many in the stash..



and invading to destroy the tunnels. And why is Israel supposed to assume that at no time will Iran send a nuclear-tipped rocket over to add to the mix.


What right does israel have to invade a soverign nation and destroy structures either above or below ground.

Would anyone here just shrug if a neighbor were to shoot at their house thousands of times per month, as long as they only occasionally kill a member of the family? That kind of logic is unreasonable, and thats putting it kindly.

I am pretty sure if your neighbor treated you like the isralies treat the palistinians(you know quarentine your place and limit what you can have shipped in and what you can ship out. How much water and electricity you have ....yeah right) you would do a bit more than crank off a few rounds in their direction.


(in reply to Sanity)
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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/8/2014 2:09:22 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Reacting to attacks?

They really have you fooled, don't they.

I appreciate that rightists have a pretty fucking poor grasp of maths, but let's go again....

Remind me ... how many civilian casualties on both sides?




The numbers aren't significant in light of the fact that the Jews are targeting rocket sites, while the Muslims are targeting civilians, and the Muslims are also using civilians as shields



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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/8/2014 2:18:48 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		You have no actual intel of that, it is simply what you choose to believe amongst the bullshit.

Just like many dumbasses believe in America's 'surgical strike' abilities, what horseshit.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 3:39:18 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Oh the numbers are significant.

They will help us to understand whether Israel's actions are wanton terrorism, or proportionate self defence.

So, what are the numbers?

And...The Israelis are by no means limiting their terror to rocket launch sites.

I do wish that rightists wouldn't suck on the teat of Israeli and far right wing propaganda.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 4:03:54 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

The numbers aren't significant


Yep. Hundreds of injuries, maimings and deaths of children - neither here nor there, so long as the stated motivation is righteous.

This is getting almost bizarre. This view of the IDF's attacks seems, to me, akin to some mad driver who mows down children in his car but considers himself morally fine because he always leans out of the window after each killing and says 'Oh, whoops, sorry about that. I didn't really want to kill you, I just didn't give a flying fuck if you died. Big difference, I'm sure you'll agree!'

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 4:09:04 PM   
Sanity


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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

The numbers aren't significant


Yep. Hundreds of injuries, maimings and deaths of children - neither here nor there, so long as the stated motivation is righteous.

This is getting almost bizarre. This view of the IDF's attacks seems, to me, akin to some mad driver who mows down children in his car but considers himself morally fine because he always leans out of the window after each killing and says 'Oh, whoops, sorry about that. I didn't really want to kill you, I just didn't give a flying fuck if you died. Big difference, I'm sure you'll agree!'


Its terrorists hiding behind women and children while shooting at other women and children

A no win situation, but go ahead and blame it on the victim like any other demented leftist would

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 4:16:01 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		I think the victims are the civilians who get injured or killed. Especially the kids. Aren't they, for you?

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 4:26:16 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

The numbers aren't significant


Yep. Hundreds of injuries, maimings and deaths of children - neither here nor there, so long as the stated motivation is righteous.

This is getting almost bizarre. This view of the IDF's attacks seems, to me, akin to some mad driver who mows down children in his car but considers himself morally fine because he always leans out of the window after each killing and says 'Oh, whoops, sorry about that. I didn't really want to kill you, I just didn't give a flying fuck if you died. Big difference, I'm sure you'll agree!'


All those reports have been seriously questioned as to their validity. You can read about it in the BBC, not quite famous for being pro-Israeli. Neither is the NY Times. So there you go: no Fox News, which should make you elated. The only source of the reports is essentially the Hamas health ministry. Known for agitprop and disinformation. The numbers of people killed demographically don't make any sense. Suggesting propaganda. Aside from the fact that Hamas bears moral responsibility in the first and only place.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28688179

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/world/middleeast/civilian-or-not-new-fight-in-tallying-the-dead-from-the-gaza-conflict.html?_r=1


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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 4:36:13 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
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From: Nampa, Idaho USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I think the victims are the civilians who get injured or killed. Especially the kids. Aren't they, for you?


Everyones a victim except for the Muslim terrorists who hide behind women and children while targeting women and children as a part of their propaganda / terror campaign

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 4:44:20 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

The numbers aren't significant


Yep. Hundreds of injuries, maimings and deaths of children - neither here nor there, so long as the stated motivation is righteous.

This is getting almost bizarre. This view of the IDF's attacks seems, to me, akin to some mad driver who mows down children in his car but considers himself morally fine because he always leans out of the window after each killing and says 'Oh, whoops, sorry about that. I didn't really want to kill you, I just didn't give a flying fuck if you died. Big difference, I'm sure you'll agree!'


All those reports have been seriously questioned as to their validity. You can read about it in the BBC, not quite famous for being pro-Israeli. Neither is the NY Times. So there you go: no Fox News, which should make you elated.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28688179

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/world/middleeast/civilian-or-not-new-fight-in-tallying-the-dead-from-the-gaza-conflict.html?_r=1


The BBC isn't known here for being pro-Hamas, just as a FYI. None of the main British media is. But that issue becomes pretty subjective when one considers that, for many, any criticism of the IDF's action *at all* is, ipso facto, anti-Israeli.

quote:

The only source of the reports is essentially the Hamas health ministry. Known for agitprop and disinformation. The numbers of people killed demographically don't make any sense. Suggesting propaganda. Aside from the fact that Hamas bears moral responsibility in the first and only place.


I've been kind of fascinated by the reports on the numbers killed in Gaza. This, of all the pieces of information coming out of the area, seems to be questioned the least by anybody - including Israel. Israel is of course known for agitprop and disinformation - indeed, it devotes great resources to it. Hamas doesn't devote great resources to agitprop and disinformation, on account of it doesn't *have* great resources.

As for Hamas bearing 'moral responsibility in the first and only place' - crap, of course. An IDF man sits in a tank, wheels his turret around and fires a shell at a school in Gaza - yes, he does indeed bear moral responsibility for that act. Arguably, as much responsibility, perhaps, as any guard in any concentration camp in Nazi Germany who was given orders to shoot at a Jew.




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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 4:51:08 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

Everyones a victim except for the Muslim terrorists who hide behind women and children while targeting women and children as a part of their propaganda / terror campaign


You could argue the first part of that, I suppose. But the population of Israel who haven't been killed or injured - that is, all but 64-odd of them - they're less easily seen as 'victims'. Less so, still, are the hundreds of Israelis who camp out on the hills, with picnics, to watch the 'fireworks' of the attacks on Gaza. And the idea of 'Muslim terrorists hiding behind women and children and as part of their porpaganda / terror campaign' is of course propaganda itself.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 4:53:13 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

The numbers aren't significant


Yep. Hundreds of injuries, maimings and deaths of children - neither here nor there, so long as the stated motivation is righteous.

This is getting almost bizarre. This view of the IDF's attacks seems, to me, akin to some mad driver who mows down children in his car but considers himself morally fine because he always leans out of the window after each killing and says 'Oh, whoops, sorry about that. I didn't really want to kill you, I just didn't give a flying fuck if you died. Big difference, I'm sure you'll agree!'


All those reports have been seriously questioned as to their validity. You can read about it in the BBC, not quite famous for being pro-Israeli. Neither is the NY Times. So there you go: no Fox News, which should make you elated.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28688179

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/world/middleeast/civilian-or-not-new-fight-in-tallying-the-dead-from-the-gaza-conflict.html?_r=1


The BBC isn't known here for being pro-Hamas, just as a FYI. None of the main British media is. But that issue becomes pretty subjective when one considers that, for many, any criticism of the IDF's action *at all* is, ipso facto, anti-Israeli.

quote:

The only source of the reports is essentially the Hamas health ministry. Known for agitprop and disinformation. The numbers of people killed demographically don't make any sense. Suggesting propaganda. Aside from the fact that Hamas bears moral responsibility in the first and only place.


I've been kind of fascinated by the reports on the numbers killed in Gaza. This, of all the pieces of information coming out of the area, seems to be questioned the least by anybody - including Israel. Israel is of course known for agitprop and disinformation - indeed, it devotes great resources to it. Hamas doesn't devote great resources to agitprop and disinformation, on account of it doesn't *have* great resources.

As for Hamas bearing 'moral responsibility in the first and only place' - crap, of course. An IDF man sits in a tank, wheels his turret around and fires a shell at a school in Gaza - yes, he does indeed bear moral responsibility for that act. Arguably, as much responsibility, perhaps, as any guard in any concentration camp in Nazi Germany who was given orders to shoot at a Jew.




You cannot compare Israel to the Nazis and claim to be anything but antisemitic.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 4:59:12 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

The numbers aren't significant


Yep. Hundreds of injuries, maimings and deaths of children - neither here nor there, so long as the stated motivation is righteous.

This is getting almost bizarre. This view of the IDF's attacks seems, to me, akin to some mad driver who mows down children in his car but considers himself morally fine because he always leans out of the window after each killing and says 'Oh, whoops, sorry about that. I didn't really want to kill you, I just didn't give a flying fuck if you died. Big difference, I'm sure you'll agree!'


All those reports have been seriously questioned as to their validity. You can read about it in the BBC, not quite famous for being pro-Israeli. Neither is the NY Times. So there you go: no Fox News, which should make you elated.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28688179

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/06/world/middleeast/civilian-or-not-new-fight-in-tallying-the-dead-from-the-gaza-conflict.html?_r=1


The BBC isn't known here for being pro-Hamas, just as a FYI. None of the main British media is. But that issue becomes pretty subjective when one considers that, for many, any criticism of the IDF's action *at all* is, ipso facto, anti-Israeli.

quote:

The only source of the reports is essentially the Hamas health ministry. Known for agitprop and disinformation. The numbers of people killed demographically don't make any sense. Suggesting propaganda. Aside from the fact that Hamas bears moral responsibility in the first and only place.


I've been kind of fascinated by the reports on the numbers killed in Gaza. This, of all the pieces of information coming out of the area, seems to be questioned the least by anybody - including Israel. Israel is of course known for agitprop and disinformation - indeed, it devotes great resources to it. Hamas doesn't devote great resources to agitprop and disinformation, on account of it doesn't *have* great resources.

As for Hamas bearing 'moral responsibility in the first and only place' - crap, of course. An IDF man sits in a tank, wheels his turret around and fires a shell at a school in Gaza - yes, he does indeed bear moral responsibility for that act. Arguably, as much responsibility, perhaps, as any guard in any concentration camp in Nazi Germany who was given orders to shoot at a Jew.





You and your supporters ask for proof and evidence and when it's provided, do you refute it? Of course not. Instead you offer slurs: Nazi and the like. You'll by the way find a large number of filfots in the Palestinian areas. Real fascination with the Fuhrer there. And these Nazis are a lot more dangerous than 99% of the moronic Neo-Nazis and 88-lovers in the US, although if we could ship them all out to Gaza today, I'd say that's where they belong.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 5:04:13 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
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ORIGINAL: BamaD


You cannot compare Israel to the Nazis and claim to be anything but antisemitic.

Yet you can make biggoted post and claim to have been married to a black woman.

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Profile   Post #: 814
RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 5:05:30 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

You cannot compare Israel to the Nazis and claim to be anything but antisemitic.


You can, I have, and I'm not antisemitic. Get used to it.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 5:06:43 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: BamaD


You cannot compare Israel to the Nazis and claim to be anything but antisemitic.

Yet you can make biggoted post and claim to have been married to a black woman.



black woman? who? Arafat? :) I'm afraid the subtleties escape me, rendering your comment to us spectators as a non sequitur,

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 5:09:59 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

You cannot compare Israel to the Nazis and claim to be anything but antisemitic.


You can, I have, and I'm not antisemitic. Get used to it.


To compare the Israelis to the Nazi is antisemitic, prima facie. Regardless of your other beliefs or statements. You can be a homer for Hamas all you want but it is Hamas and the Palestinians who revere fascism and dear old Adolf, not the Israelis. It is Hamas which has a totalitarian system and steals money for weapons leaving its people starving, not Israel. It is Hamas which removes Israeli from maps (as well as the PA), not Israeli which removes Arab countries. It is Israeli which has Arabs in the Knesset, not Palestinians who have Israelis in whatever dysfunctional government body they may have. Etc. etc. etc.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 5:11:22 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

black woman? who? Arafat? :) I'm afraid the subtleties escape me, rendering your comment to us spectators as a non sequitur,


Oh dear...... You need to try and keep up to speed with the forum and its idiosyncracies.

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Profile   Post #: 818
RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 5:13:53 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

You and your supporters ask for proof and evidence and when it's provided, do you refute it? Of course not. Instead you offer slurs: Nazi and the like. You'll by the way find a large number of filfots in the Palestinian areas. Real fascination with the Fuhrer there. And these Nazis are a lot more dangerous than 99% of the moronic Neo-Nazis and 88-lovers in the US, although if we could ship them all out to Gaza today, I'd say that's where they belong.


Jeez. SubrosaDom, do you really know so little about the propagandising of conflict? Heads up: in the case of Palestine/Israel, the standard narrative is *just not working any more*. Retailing the Israeli line - all its 'facts' and its 'philosophies' - just does not cut it like it used to. At long, long, last, it's failed. Only 15% in the UK support the military actions of Israel against Gaza. Seriously, do you really believe that the 85% here who don't support the Israeli attacks are 'lefties' or 'extremists'? That's simply deranged.

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RE: The current middle eastern crisis is Israels fault... - 8/9/2014 5:17:07 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

To compare the Israelis to the Nazi is antisemitic, prima facie


Whining, wheedling, crap. If the cap fits, wear it. You do not *get* to murder women and children and continue to call yourself a saint. You do need to get used to this. More importantly, the Israeli State needs to. It's going to fuck itself up majorly unless it does.

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