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RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 2:34:48 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		I don't think that the police could be reasonably accused of manufacturing child porn for taking a picture of someone's erect penis in order to determine whether they are the perpetrator of an offence, any more than a doctor who takes a photograph of the victim of a sexual offence can be construed to be making child porn.

That said, it's more than a bit fucked up, and it seems they did backtrack on that idea.

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RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 2:40:14 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		Thing is, whatever the motive, it will be a picture of a kid with a stiffy. It'll go on the net eventually and will be downloaded by ... paedos!

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 2:45:09 AM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		There are two questions here. One relates to the law (in which I' no expert) and the other relates to the moral fairness/rightness (in which I'm not much of an expert either).

If the law makes no distinction as to the age of the maker of the porn, then regardless of whether it's "fair" the law has to be upheld.

So, if the law doesn't distinguish by age and this boy induced the girl to make pervy self images, then legally I reckon (in my utterly unqualified opinion) that there's a case for him to answer. If she sent the pics of her own accord, then yeah - my unqualified legal opinion is that she ought to be charged.

Of course, it could be a bad law, if could be a law that needs to be revised in order to prevent unintended consequences, but if that's the case then the law makers have to revise it.

As for whether it's fair to pursue the boy for "manufacturing child porn", no, I don't think it's fair. The laws against child porn weren't conceived to catch this kind of situation. Should he be sanctioned in some way? Sure. If it turns out that he was harassing the girl he should be charged with harassment.

Now if he posted the pics on the interweb, that would seem different to me - he'd be distributing a sexual picture of a minor... and yeah I would be comfy seeing a 17 y/old face the full consequences of that.

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RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 5:04:24 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

No victim, no crime. I don't see any victims in your story.


Victimless crimes:
Prostitution
homosexuality*
gambling
Drugs
Suicide

Well those things aren't crimes,

Perhaps in your mind they are not crimes but in the real world they are.

(in reply to wittynamehere)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 5:12:59 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
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ORIGINAL: SadistDave
Personally, I think it's ridiculous to criminalize suicide. I think we should be encouraging suicide to get rid of all the wackos that suck the life out of society.

Why do you feel that a person with a terminal illness,who chooses to die with dignity, is a wacko?



Unfortunately, most suicide attempts fail miserably

Would you have any validation for this ignorant unsubstantiated opinion?


and end up costing money and resources wasted on sad sacks

Your opinion of those who seek death with dignity shows the depth of your human compassion


who aren't even smart enough to figure out that $3 will buy 8 Castor plant seeds that will kill them the first time, every time...

The hemlock society teaches less painful ways of delivrence.



So, suicide is a crime whether I like it or not.

Actually it is attempted suicide which is a crime. Who would be prosecuted if suicide were the crime?

Unless you believe that child porn should be legal to create, distribute, and possess then I'm curious what leads you to believe that no crime has been committed...

Do you feel that the authorities who seek to create more porn should be prosecuted both for conspiracy to produce and distribute c/p also?



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RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 6:42:31 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

No victim, no crime. I don't see any victims in your story.


Victimless crimes:
Prostitution
homosexuality*
gambling
Drugs
Suicide



Well those things aren't crimes,



Perhaps in your mind they are not crimes but in the real world they are.



actually it is more correct: perhaps in your country they are not crimes but in most of the usa they are. I've never been there so I can't be sure, but I've been told canada is in real world. Also in italy all those activities are not crimes.

< Message edited by eulero83 -- 7/21/2014 6:44:31 AM >

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RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 7:19:17 AM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: eulero83


actually it is more correct: perhaps in your country they are not crimes but in most of the usa they are. I've never been there so I can't be sure, but I've been told canada is in real world. Also in italy all those activities are not crimes.


Those are the laws in the country I live in. Perhaps I live in a rather backward, superstitious and xenophobic country?

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RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 7:32:40 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

No victim, no crime. I don't see any victims in your story.


Victimless crimes:
Prostitution
homosexuality*
gambling
Drugs
Suicide

Well those things aren't crimes, but yeah I agree, they're victimless activities.


I agree that the first two are not, well unless a errant husband brings home a present from his prostitute and shares it with his wife. But gambling and drug abuse can hurt anyone connected with the person doing it. And unless the person killing themselves has no one in the world that will care when he is dead it's not victimless either.


As to the op, I wouldn't have a problem with telling the kids they would be charged and explaining how that could follow them the rest of their lives. A little fear might make them think a bit. But I would never charge them because they are kids and I feel there is a world of difference between two kids taking pics of each other and an adult taking pics of a kid. Hopefully these two have learned that it isn't a good idea and it won't go any farther than that.


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RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 7:49:27 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


quote:

ORIGINAL: wittynamehere


quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: wittynamehere

No victim, no crime. I don't see any victims in your story.


Victimless crimes:
Prostitution
homosexuality*
gambling
Drugs
Suicide



Well those things aren't crimes,



Perhaps in your mind they are not crimes but in the real world they are.



actually it is more correct: perhaps in your country they are not crimes but in most of the usa they are. I've never been there so I can't be sure, but I've been told canada is in real world. Also in italy all those activities are not crimes.


Gambling is not illegal here nor is being homosexual. Now there might be laws in some states against anal sex but I have never heard of one being enforced. There also may be some spots that don't allow gambling but most states have it in some form and if I am not mistaken over 40 states now have the power ball lottery which is gambling. But you are correct about Canada, it is in fact in the real world.

_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to eulero83)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 8:23:27 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

But gambling and drug abuse can hurt anyone connected with the person doing it. And unless the person killing themselves has no one in the world that will care when he is dead it's not victimless either.



I dont' get this thinking process: he is so much in trouble, that makes me upset... so he has to pay! it's kind of over any limit of individualism...

quote:



As to the op, I wouldn't have a problem with telling the kids they would be charged and explaining how that could follow them the rest of their lives. A little fear might make them think a bit. But I would never charge them because they are kids and I feel there is a world of difference between two kids taking pics of each other and an adult taking pics of a kid. Hopefully these two have learned that it isn't a good idea and it won't go any farther than that.



Think about what? That they are criminals for exploring their own sexuality? I honestly see only a stupid mother that is trying to ruin a person over a pride issue. Child pornography laws are there to protect the minor that gets recorded from exploitation not enforcing a conservative moral.

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RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 1:31:35 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eulero83


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

But gambling and drug abuse can hurt anyone connected with the person doing it. And unless the person killing themselves has no one in the world that will care when he is dead it's not victimless either.



I dont' get this thinking process: he is so much in trouble, that makes me upset... so he has to pay! it's kind of over any limit of individualism...


I was talking about people in general, not the kid in the OP

quote:


quote:


As to the op, I wouldn't have a problem with telling the kids they would be charged and explaining how that could follow them the rest of their lives. A little fear might make them think a bit. But I would never charge them because they are kids and I feel there is a world of difference between two kids taking pics of each other and an adult taking pics of a kid. Hopefully these two have learned that it isn't a good idea and it won't go any farther than that.



Think about what? That they are criminals for exploring their own sexuality? I honestly see only a stupid mother that is trying to ruin a person over a pride issue. Child pornography laws are there to protect the minor that gets recorded from exploitation not enforcing a conservative moral.


Which is why I said I would not charge them with anything. Just let them know what could happen if they continued to do it.

_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 2:19:40 PM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		FR

I remember once thinking that I was a paedo because I fancied little girls. All the newspapers said that anyone who fancies little girls is a paedo. They didn't mention that if the person doing the fancying was a little boy of the same age as said little girls, that was kind of normal.

I know exactly what is meant by the phrase 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing'.

OK, Mods, I will understand if you want to wipe this post. It was a bit weird. No explanation necessary.

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RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 2:23:26 PM   
Moderator3


Posts: 3289
Status: offline 		I'm sure we understood you perfectly Peon.

Cute story.

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/21/2014 5:47:46 PM   
thompsonx


Posts: 23322
Joined: 10/1/2006
Status: offline
ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Victimless crimes:
Prostitution
homosexuality*
gambling
Drugs
Suicide




Gambling is not illegal here

Actually you are full of shit. Some states have some types of state sanctioned gambling. Gambling is not legal except in state sanctioned institutions.


nor is being homosexual.

We have heard you tell us of your homosexuality but it must have been fairly recent conversion. Read a little history of the possie you claim. Notice the asterisk next to the word homosexuality. The law has changed in some states but not all.


Now there might be laws in some states against anal sex but I have never heard of one being enforced.

Because you have never heard of it that must mean that it does not happen?yeah right.






(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/22/2014 12:35:47 AM   
eulero83


Posts: 1470
Joined: 11/4/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: eulero83


actually it is more correct: perhaps in your country they are not crimes but in most of the usa they are. I've never been there so I can't be sure, but I've been told canada is in real world. Also in italy all those activities are not crimes.


Those are the laws in the country I live in. Perhaps I live in a rather backward, superstitious and xenophobic country?



you live in a country that used religion as a tool to keep people away from specific political ideas, so crimes against morality are considered as important as thise against the person, and sometimes, like in this case, enforcing a moral trumps protecting people's rights.

(in reply to thompsonx)
Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/24/2014 12:58:34 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: SadistDave
Personally, I think it's ridiculous to criminalize suicide. I think we should be encouraging suicide to get rid of all the wackos that suck the life out of society.

Why do you feel that a person with a terminal illness,who chooses to die with dignity, is a wacko?


Different category actually, but if someone wants to snuff it because of disease, I'm all for them having the right to do it.


quote:


Unfortunately, most suicide attempts fail miserably

Would you have any validation for this ignorant unsubstantiated opinion?


Actually, I would be referring to the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention's statistics, which are based largely on CDC information on suicide. While the CDC does not track "attempted suicide" they do track "self-harm". There are 12 people hospitalized for "self-harm" for every completed suicide. Now, while there is no guarantee that 12 out of 12 "self-harm" cases are suicide attempts, the AFSP seems to believe that the ratio of attempts to successes is pretty high. For instance, their website cites that in their professional opinion there is a ratio of 25 attempts for every successful suicide for young people and a ratio of 4:1 in the elderly.

Even a rate of 4:1 would fit the definition of "most"...

Would you have any validation for your ignorant unsubstantiated opinion that the majority of suicides succeed?


quote:

and end up costing money and resources wasted on sad sacks

Your opinion of those who seek death with dignity shows the depth of your human compassion


Is that supposed to make me feel bad or something? I have compassion for family and friends. The rest of the world sucks hind tit.

quote:

who aren't even smart enough to figure out that $3 will buy 8 Castor plant seeds that will kill them the first time, every time...

The hemlock society teaches less painful ways of delivrence.


Good for them! Seriously. I believe in choices though, so I hope they offer information on most methods of suicide. The preferred method of suicide remains firearms. Does the Hemlock Society help people who chose to to use a .38? What id someone wanted to just chuck themselves into a woodchipper? Do they carry any useful information in that regard?

More importantly, does the Hemlock Society also teach how to write a proper suicide note, or how to get that memorable "Wow!" factor when staging your death scene? Hanging yourself in a room surrounded by a circle of Hello Kitty dolls with pentacles drawn on in magic marker (for instance) is something that's sure to be a memorable suicide.

Make it interesting and the world will remember your suicide long after they've forgotten you....

quote:

So, suicide is a crime whether I like it or not.

Actually it is attempted suicide which is a crime. Who would be prosecuted if suicide were the crime?


Who cares. It should still be encouraged if people really want to do it.

quote:

Unless you believe that child porn should be legal to create, distribute, and possess then I'm curious what leads you to believe that no crime has been committed...

Do you feel that the authorities who seek to create more porn should be prosecuted both for conspiracy to produce and distribute c/p also?


Irrelevant. As someone pointed out already, similar photos are already taken and used as evidence in cases of rape and abuse. They are also used for medical documentation and training. There are actually certain criteria that must be met in order for such photos to be considered pornography. Normally, legal and medical documentation fall outside those criteria.

-SD-

_____________________________

To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/26/2014 4:17:23 AM   
Moderator7


Posts: 346
Status: offline 		Please re-read the guidelines of this section before posting. Fair warning had been given prior around this topic and this is the second and final one. Thank you.

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/26/2014 4:56:20 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx


ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx
Victimless crimes:
Prostitution
homosexuality*
gambling
Drugs
Suicide




Gambling is not illegal here

Actually you are full of shit. Some states have some types of state sanctioned gambling. Gambling is not legal except in state sanctioned institutions.



It's legal in some states, that's why they let people build casinos. If gambling was illegal, they wouldn't do that. And most states have a lottery which is also gambling. And just for the record, moron, if states have state sanctioned gambling that means it's not illegal. Now if you claimed it was illegal in some states, you would have been correct but you are in such a hurry to type a response you don't stop and think about what you are saying.
quote:


nor is being homosexual.

We have heard you tell us of your homosexuality but it must have been fairly recent conversion. Read a little history of the possie you claim. Notice the asterisk next to the word homosexuality. The law has changed in some states but not all.



So you are suggesting that some states still have laws against being gay and they still enforce those laws. (I say they still enforce them because if they didn't there wouldn't be much point in you bringing it up at all) Maybe some links would help if you have them handy.

quote:


Now there might be laws in some states against anal sex but I have never heard of one being enforced.

Because you have never heard of it that must mean that it does not happen?yeah right.

I never said that. I said I had never heard of them but once again, links would be nice.







_____________________________

"Sweetie, you're wasting your gum" .. Albert


This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/26/2014 5:04:48 PM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline 		Since you directed you r warning to me, would you please be kind enough to email me and tell me precisely what it is that I am being warned about?

Thanks in advance,
-SD-



_____________________________

To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!

(in reply to Moderator7)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Should this guy be chrged with childpornography? - 7/26/2014 6:05:33 PM   
Moderator3


Posts: 3289
Status: offline 		Just a reminder. A number of posts have been removed from this thread by Mod7. Pictures of minors in any shape or condition, especially dead ones, really are not acceptable.

I have suffered a great loss personally and am dealing with family and now moderators and forum issues. I will ask that you all not challenge the moderators because if I have to keep coming in, I will have to take swift action, so that I can deal with the family grief. I'm sorry, but that is the way I will have to deal with this for the moment. I really am sorry.

(in reply to thishereboi)
Profile   Post #: 40
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