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collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/23/2004 3:12:39 PM

EStrict

Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline

In an interesting converstation I had today, it was said that if a dominant leaves a message board because he doesn't like the politics or policies of the group, it is his duty to take his submissive with him or the submissive should be banned. The reason given is that a submissive is just a mouthpiece since their views *must* be the same as their dominants.

Is this a common thought among dominants? How about those who are not dominant? Are your thoughts only extensions of your dominants in everything that could/would be discussed on a message board? And both, should the dominant leave a board, should the non dominant have to leave also by default?

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

Post #: 1

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/23/2004 3:32:04 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Very interesting question Sandy. I would guess it depends on why one would leave the site. In my case, I would only leave if the site advocated something I morally objected to (child pornography or racism for example). In that case I would expect that my slave would leave as well. And of course she would.

< Message edited by Estring -- 11/23/2004 3:36:31 PM >

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 2

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/23/2004 4:02:06 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

This is the second post here today Sandy that you are pretty much echoing the same sentiment. Obviously this has gotten to you.

Should a submissive represent their Dominant? I think they probably should. If the Dominant has behaved like a spoiled child and gotten themselves banned from a group. Should the submissive follow? Well, I don't know. I don't think I would. I'm told I can do whatever I want. Actually I am ordered to. My Dom knows I have a good head on my shoulders. He also knows I will stand up for my own convictions. He doesn't have to fight any battles for me.
In my mind if a Dominant behaves in that fashion they are not a Dominant to begin with.

Doug stands up for me the same way I would stand up for him. I have no issues at all squashing little toads when I need to. For him, I'd probably squash them even faster. When it is my battle I sometimes like to watch the squirm first for a while.

So, as Estring said, I think it would depend on what the instance was.

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 3

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/23/2004 6:29:34 PM

cariad

Posts: 943
Joined: 9/25/2004
From: Calgary, Alberta
Status: offline

[/quote]In an interesting converstation I had today, it was said that if a
dominant leaves a message board because he doesn't like the politics or
policies of the group, it is his duty to take his submissive with him or
the submissive should be banned. The reason given is that a submissive
is just a mouthpiece since their views *must* be the same as their
dominants.

Is this a common thought among dominants? How about those who are not dominant? Are your thoughts only extensions of your dominants in everything that could/would be discussed on a message board? And both, should the dominant leave a board, should the non dominant have to leave also by default?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
this slave expresses no O/one's views, thoughts, beliefs, or feelings other than her own. this slave speaks only her thoughts, beliefes, feelings and views because she does NOT know what Master's thoughts etc would be in regards to a particular subject. if there were something that happened would this slave leave? it would depend on what happened and how she felt on that particular subject. racism, child pornography, or anything illegal are some of the things that would make this slave leave.

Master knows this slave posts here and several other groups she belongs to, the only time Master has Ordered her to leave a site was for punishment purposes and once due to a problem she had with a problem "Dom" on a site she is now allowed to go back to.

this slave feels that it would be up to the "DIQ" and Their slave/submissive as to whether or not the slave/submissive should leave the boards as well. the reason being is that it is NOT up to anyO/one but the "DIQ" and Their slave/submissive as to whether or not the slave/submissives stays. "JMO"

Attachment (1)

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The Path To Being A Good slave Takes Hard Work, A Willingness To Learn, Ability To Take Criticism and the Ability To Take Punishments Well. i Am Still Learning So Please Be Patient With me, As i Walk the Path to Being A good slave. SLRN: 742 958 000

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 4

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/23/2004 6:53:02 PM

velvetvixen

Posts: 378
Joined: 1/19/2004
Status: offline

I would be surprised if I were told to leave, unless there was something morally objectionable happening. If that were the case though, I wouldn't have to be told, I would do so on my own.

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 5

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/23/2004 6:54:48 PM

EStrict

Posts: 729
Joined: 1/11/2004
Status: offline

Actually yes it does bother me... but the question isn't should they represent, but rather, should they be ALLOWED their own thoughts? Or are people to *assume* that anything they say MUST be the thoughts of the dominant, since they are not allowed their own thoughts....

In the situation I am talking about, it was personal differences with other dominants that made the dominant chose to leave. The head of the group asked my opinion on if his slave should be booted. I said of course not (especially knowing the person in question personally), that she is someone who is bright, intelligent, and has other friends on the board.

Should she decide to post on a topic, it would be *her* thoughts, not his... 'cause that's actually what this group is afraid of.. that a dominant that chose to leave (or one they kicked out) was able to still express their thoughts. I don't know,, maybe because Master and my own personal ethics are too strong to play that game I believe others are the same.

_____________________________

Sandy

Don't take life too seriously, no one gets out alive anyway...

(in reply to sub4hire)

Post #: 6

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/23/2004 6:59:24 PM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

Here is where the position of the posession to Me makes the differance.
A sub having a say over their self and being and having a seperate opinion
by position should have a free will to choose if they stay or not however
a slave being the posession of its Owner is a extension of such and I would agree is an extension of their Owners thoughts as well and would automatically follow suit of the Owner. JMO

a submissive chooses by the moment by the minuite
by the hour by the day by the week by the month by
the year when and how and who and where they will
choose to serve a Dominant daily to fullfill their selfs
or to not.

a slave chooses to serve once forever
to fullfill the Dominants needs.They are a person held
concensually in servitude as the chattel of a
another person. one that is completely servient
to a Dominating influence. a device
(as in a posession) that is directly
responsive to anothers needs completly.
if you are a person whom is suplicant and in order
for you to feel suplicant you make choices in what
you will give then you are submitting but if you
choose to let another say what you will give you
are slave. I think this Alternate Lifestyle frame of
mind and role says it all.

(in reply to velvetvixen)

Post #: 7

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/23/2004 7:30:02 PM

Kinkypupper

Posts: 713
Joined: 9/26/2004
From: Portland oregon
Status: offline

THAT SOUNDS LIKE CRAP......

_____________________________

Phil Moulton
A Sensual Touch
Locopony Racing
Portland Oregon

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 8

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 6:04:43 AM

Destinysskeins

Posts: 267
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: EStrict

Should she decide to post on a topic, it would be *her* thoughts, not his... 'cause that's actually what this group is afraid of.. that a dominant that chose to leave (or one they kicked out) was able to still express their thoughts. I don't know,, maybe because Master and my own personal ethics are too strong to play that game I believe others are the same.

Greetings,

Ok, to my mind this quote speaks volumes...

This statement illustrates the inane insecurity that this group possesses. Let's assume for all intents and purposes at this point that a collared submissive will indeed voice only those opinions belonging to his/her Master/Mistress. So, this submissive attends a group/posts a reply or thread giving voice to these opinions/viewpoints. *shrugs* Who the hell cares?! Why should it matter so greatly? If the Master/Mistress in question is truly in the wrong in regards to what is being said, will it not come out in the wash as they say? Personally, i believe myself to be strong enough in my convictions and intelligent enough in my own decision making to not be so affected by others' points of view that i feel i must quarantine those with opposing views away from me.

And thusly, i believe this frame of mind lends also to the belief that a collared submissive must mirror the viewpoints of his/her Master/Mistress. In this line of thinking One must be unable to comfortably accomodate the existence of a submissive's independent viewpoints. After all, if they voice their opinion it might influence that Dominant and apparently these Dominants' convictions are too weak to harbor the introduction of foreign ideas lest Their own be tainted!

Well wishes!

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 9

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 6:58:49 AM

srahfox

Posts: 261
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline

My Master is a wonderful, intelligent, opinionated man. That having been said. When Post I try, to the best of my ability to think about how he would feel about what I was saying. I try to not say anything that I know he would not agree with. In that way I am an extention of him and his thoughts. But he would not, and does not want someone with no mind and opionions of their own. I believe Master has posted maybe 3 times here, but he has read most of mine.
I personally feel (And I trust Master would as well or I wouldn't post it) That should he be kicked off, or chose to leave for any reason he would expect me to stay. I don't believe that means I should be banned for while my views are an extention of his, they are also my own. How petty does a site have to be to ban someone for that reason. I understand the thought and the reasoning behind it but unless there was a really good reason (Such as abuse) I don't see the point in banning the sub as well.
Slave to an Opinionated Master

(in reply to Destinysskeins)

Post #: 10

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 9:21:13 AM

INSIDEYOURMIND

Posts: 483
Status: offline

While I agree with the thought that my sub is an extension of myself, she has an opinion of her own.
If I chose to leave a forum for a valid reason, I would expect my sub to leave as well.
If I was asked to leave a forum because of something I did that was wrong, it would be completely up to my sub as to if she would continue.

< Message edited by INSIDEYOURMIND -- 11/24/2004 9:25:04 AM >

_____________________________

If I got smart with you.................
How would you know?

(in reply to srahfox)

Post #: 11

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 10:21:03 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

I believe that I represent my partner, not that I am an extension of my partner.

I, too, think about what he would say about the tone in which I post and the content of my post, in the sense that I realize that my behavior reflects directly on him. I am proud of being his and I do not want to make someone think poorly of him.

However, my thoughts are my own. Influenced by him, of course, but not -his- thoughts.

In regards to the original question, if he asked me to leave this board, I would do it in a heartbeat. However, I think participation in any online or real community is at the discression of the parties invovled. Because a dominant person doesn't want to be on a board, she's under no obligation to force her submissive partner from it as well. I believe it's up to the dominant person in question, and what works for -her- not what works for the community at large. If someone takes exception at what the person remaining on the boards has to say, well, then I think that person should probably leave them.

Too, people seem to believe that if one is a slave, under the strictest deffinition, one can turn off their humanity. That is, that when one decides to be a slave one automatically subsumes everything he thinks into the conciousness of his owner. I don't think this can ever happen. Even the most devoted slave is still a human being. Even one who is a possesition in as many ways as you can count is -still- a human being. I don't believe that, baring extensive mind-alteration through drugs and other means, one can ever completely shut off the independant thought that makes one human. To that end, I believe that a slave will -always- have his own opinions, that being human, he cannot help but have them. He can subsume them, of course. He can bury them, he can not give them voice. However, to believe that he does not have them is to believe that slaves are somehow super-human entities that can have complete control over their own concciousnesses, or that dominant people are super-human entities that can exert complete control over another's conciousness. Both are, again in my opinion, kind of silly outlooks.

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to INSIDEYOURMIND)

Post #: 12

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 11:17:41 AM

MistressFire70

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

Hmmm...should slaves be allowed their own thoughts? I would think so. It's not like we can keep slaves from thinking, although we can try to keep them from expressing them.

To me, if a couple is well-matched, there will be few "big" issues that they will disagree on, although, I do realize that people change over time. If I left or was banned from a forum or list or whatever, I would hope my sub or slave would remove themselves. Not because they are copying what I did, but because they agreed with me in the first place and no longer wish to participate in that area. But, on the other hand, if they felt differently than I, I feel it’s not my place to make them into a “mini me”. In the end, it’s going to be different from one situation to another.

For example: what if my slave and I decide to be vegetarian? We join a vegetarian list to learn more about it but I then change my mind and now I think that the whole concept is crap. I decide I’m a meat-eater and will always be a meat-ever, etc. etc. and leave the list. Do I expect my slave to leave the list? No. Do I expect my slave to learn to eat meat? No. Do I expect my slave to cook me steak? You betcha.

But what if we’re on a list of a group in which I have witnessed abuse? I state my case to the group’s leaders and the whole thing is hushed up. I decide to leave the group, having decided it is unsafe. Do I expect my slave to leave the group with me? Damn straight.

So, I’m not sure is this has offered insight or if I’ve merely meandered through a number of subjects. In the end, I feel that a slave MUST be free to have their own thoughts and opinions in order to be healthy. Oppression and repression are damaging things.

Fire

_____________________________

you have come to a great chasm. Jump. It's not as wide as you think.

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 13

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 11:21:08 AM

MistressFire70

Posts: 378
Joined: 7/25/2004
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kinkypupper

THAT SOUNDS LIKE CRAP......

Could you elaborate on this a little? It's unclear what you're refering to. I'd be interested in knowing, if only to clear it up in my own head. On my first read, it seemed a little mean spirited.

Fire

_____________________________

you have come to a great chasm. Jump. It's not as wide as you think.

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

Post #: 14

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 12:17:44 PM

srahfox

Posts: 261
Joined: 10/17/2004
Status: offline

If there really was something wrong with the board that made my Master leave, I would leave. Our views on things are so close that what would upset him, would upset me. If he told me to leave, I would. Period. But I know him well enough I believe that would never be an issue. If he were kicked off, I would likely leave just because, but I don't believe that should be an automatic assumption.

(in reply to MistressFire70)

Post #: 15

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 3:52:42 PM

MistressDREAD

Posts: 2943
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

THAT SOUNDS LIKE CRAP

and thats your opinion kinky HOWEVER
My slaves ARE an extention of ME and any
whom serve Me would be right beside Me
as I am here online and I hear their opinions
on what I read and what I say if I ask for it
and there has been very few times when I
have allowed any of My posessions the chance
to express their opinions openly in any public
way be it online or real life. My slaves place is
at My side doing My bidding and that is their
CHOICE and My right as Their Owner. As I had
stated it is MY opinion that a submissive however
has their own rights simply by choosing to be
submissive and that is why I do NOT tend to or
have any type of relation with a submissive personally
because I expect more in My Ownership of a
concensual being and I expect Ownership for 24/7
which all submissives cannot give as it is not part of their being.

You call My Opinions and Lifestyle Living Crap HOWEVER
I say to You One Persons Trash is another Persons
TREASURES!

Me and Mine and Ours have done quite well with what We do
with in Our Alternate Lifes Living just the way I stated.
Dont like it ? TO BAD! JMO LOL!

(in reply to srahfox)

Post #: 16

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 5:33:57 PM

TahoeSadist

Posts: 176
Joined: 8/3/2004
Status: offline

Interesting thread on a variety of levels. First off, If I were in a group or on a message board that was so uptight they would make statements like that I'd suggest (as I cheerfully left) that they each take a 5 gallon enema to try to flush their collective heads back out. That said, though I'm currently single, my thoughts on submissives thinking, etc are pretty simple.

For me to be in a relationship with a person it means that I find them interesting and compatible. Not a mimic, not a mouthpiece without her own thoughts, a *person* wholly capable of thinking, holding conversation, etc. I wouldn't expect that our views would have to be the same, hell some of my closest friends and I have absolutely opposite ideas. I treasure a level of independence, and figure that if she's a good pick to be my sub, then she is certainly to be trusted to handle herself in groups and lists and such.

As to whether if the dominant leaves a board the sub has to as well, I reckon if I were at that point, I'd make my reasons for leaving perfectly clear (ahhh communication) and we'd discuss her thoughts. Then the decision would be up to her. Once again, if we're compatible, and have a good communication, then on a major issue that would make me leave a group I'd suspect that we'd be at least somewhat in agreement.

Eric

_____________________________

As long as one of us enjoys it, it's not a total waste

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 17

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 8:35:15 PM

Estring

Posts: 3314
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

THAT SOUNDS LIKE CRAP......

What does crap sound like?

(in reply to Kinkypupper)

Post #: 18

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/24/2004 10:01:45 PM

sub4hire

Posts: 6775
Joined: 1/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

What does crap sound like?

You mean you've never listened to it hit the water?

(in reply to Estring)

Post #: 19

RE: collared subs and slaves on message boards - 11/25/2004 4:52:11 AM

LordODiscipline

Posts: 995
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

It always strikes me as silly the 'imposed' polities and 'protocols'.

A better question is "Why should anyone take their submissive with them (as a child storming out with their ball to go home after being upset?) or force a submissive off the board if their dominant is booted?"

Certainly if they are both an issue on the board - kick them both... but, I would never tell my girl to get off a board because I do not like the people involved there or the things discussed. She certainly can make her own descision on that matter and there is no need for me to impart my will where it is not required.

I simply do not understand the rationale for this.

Anyone?

~J

(in reply to EStrict)

Post #: 20

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