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To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/8/2014 8:51:18 PM   
CobaltRose


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To all non-op MtFs, or girls with penises, you do not have to change unless you want to. You dont have to have a vagina to be a woman. You are beautiful, and you should only get SRS if you want to. Dont let society pressure you into how women should look. I am Clarissa Willow P********, I have a penis, and i am a woman. I will not change for society. If there are any like minded transwomen, you are not alone.

I really hope this isnt offensive.
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/8/2014 9:49:18 PM   
DarkSteven


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Um. Clarissa, you've been trans for all of one month. Try reading up on other MtFs' experiences and thoughts before telling them what kinds of thoughts are okay.

Your heart is in the right place, but your post doesn't help things. You're telling people they do not need to focus on the thing you're talking about.

Good luck with your transition.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to CobaltRose)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/8/2014 10:36:58 PM   
CobaltRose


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Um. Clarissa, you've been trans for all of one month. Try reading up on other MtFs' experiences and thoughts before telling them what kinds of thoughts are okay.

Your heart is in the right place, but your post doesn't help things. You're telling people they do not need to focus on the thing you're talking about.

Good luck with your transition.

I think you misunderstand. Im telling those who DONT want to change their genitals shouldnt have to because of society. That they are beautiful. This isnt for pre-ops who plan on changing, this is for non-ops who feel pressured into changing but dont want to. Im saying they dont have to.

< Message edited by CobaltRose -- 8/8/2014 10:37:23 PM >

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 12:13:35 AM   
stef


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

I really hope this isnt offensive.

It's only offensive if you somehow think people didn't know this before you gave them your "approval."

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to CobaltRose)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 12:25:24 AM   
CobaltRose


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Its not an approval, just a reminder. Because some people (including myself) need to be reminded that they dont have to follow societies rules.

(in reply to stef)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 1:16:33 AM   
Gauge


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

Its not an approval, just a reminder. Because some people (including myself) need to be reminded that they dont have to follow societies rules.



Chances are, they already know that. I suppose your first post was made with good intent, but likely unnecessary.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to CobaltRose)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 2:59:05 AM   
CobaltRose


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge


quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

Its not an approval, just a reminder. Because some people (including myself) need to be reminded that they dont have to follow societies rules.



Chances are, they already know that. I suppose your first post was made with good intent, but likely unnecessary.

Maybe, but there are always the young people who dont know it. Sure, perhaps 90% already know, but i dont do this for the 90%, i do it for the 10%.

(in reply to Gauge)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 3:32:43 AM   
freedomdwarf1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose
Maybe, but there are always the young people who dont know it. Sure, perhaps 90% already know, but i dont do this for the 90%, i do it for the 10%.

One of the first things someone is told in counselling is that they do not have to change.
You are barking up the wrong tree and it isn't helpful - not even for the 10% you are aiming this post at.

_____________________________

If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to CobaltRose)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 3:45:39 AM   
CobaltRose


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quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1


quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose
Maybe, but there are always the young people who dont know it. Sure, perhaps 90% already know, but i dont do this for the 90%, i do it for the 10%.

One of the first things someone is told in counselling is that they do not have to change.
You are barking up the wrong tree and it isn't helpful - not even for the 10% you are aiming this post at.

How is saying that "you are not alone" barking up the wrong tree?

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 5:26:15 AM   
njlauren


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While I appreciate the sentiment behind the statement, I kind of wonder about the reason for writing it. There is pressure to get SRS, which is a very expensive, major operation, that few insurance plans cover (they made sure SRS wasn't covered under Obama care, for example). In many states, if you want to change the sex on your driver's license you need to get SRS (NJ finally changed this, when the lunkheads at the DMV figured out that a)gender identity is not tied to your genitals and b)srs is so expensive and hard to get, that even if someone wants it, they may never get it, but meanwhile are living as women/men, have to drive.....). It is a very personal decision, and yes, there are those who don't want SRS, who either are not in conflict with their genitals, don't hate them, or maybe don't want the risks of the surgery.

And as others point out, therapists and counselors will tell trans folks that they don't have to do SRS.

Cobalt, I realize you are finding yourself, and that is great, but you also have to realize that when it comes to all this, even something said with all the good intentions might not come off as good. For example, your statement that "you don't need to get SRS" can be construed as telling someone who wants SRS that somehow they are silly to want it, that they are just following what the herd tells them, and so forth (I know you didn't mean that, I am just telling you how it can be taken). It can be taken as a statement meaning "don't be stupid, don't do SRS and follow the herd, it is okay to stay non op" rather than being supporting.....

The other thing is that you are still so new, trying to figure out what you are, that giving advice may be premature. I haven't followed your threads or any threads on here closely, but last I checked, you hadn't done any kind of counseling or therapy, you were just starting to try and figure out who you were, and it is kind of early to be giving advice, when you haven't been down the path or really solidified who you are yet. You weren't sure what you were, whether you saw yourself as a woman, a some sort of sissy sex maid, or whatever, and you haven't really been down the path at all, you haven't (last I checked) gone out as Cobalt, explored it,and that is such a large part of the process. It is wonderful you are starting to find yourself, it is a great feeling to unlock who we are as people (doesn't matter trans, with faith, whatever), but it is also very easy to get caught up in that rush and feeling like we have discovered the magic elixir, when in fact it is just the opening move:). I can remember newly minted girls in my support groups who told everyone the secret was to have sex with men (these were often girls who had been 'straight' before starting to explore, then found being with a guy was an amazing experience presenting as a girl), others told everyone they should be the emancipated, liberated, feminist type a la Gloria Steinhem and wear jeans, t shirts and sneakers and so forth,there were those who were caught up in a time warp, who said the ultimate was to be kind of like the image of a 1950's woman, and saw some hurtful shit, like people who were finding their own path being asked why they didn't dress all up, didn't pursue men, or the other way around, that if they liked dressing 'girly' they somehow must be crossdressers or fetishists or whatever...

I think the intent of the post is a good one, but I think you need to understand that you yourself are just forming, and you are assuming a lot when giving advice. There are things I can talk about from my own experience, but because my path ended up in a different place, I don't give advice beyond what I know, I can't speak about the process of SRS these days, never having gotten to that point, I can't talk about how to deal with post transition issues (other than to pass on what others have told me, with the caveat I didn't go that route).....

The other thing is, while there are folks of trans background on here, or questioning people, posting here is not going to affect all that many.....


(in reply to CobaltRose)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 5:37:30 AM   
CobaltRose


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I really wish i could edit my first post so i could clarify i didnt mean that those who do want to get SRS are stupid. What i meant was that its not the only option, and if you dont want to, you dont have to.

(in reply to njlauren)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 9:13:51 AM   
DarkSteven


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njlauren, your post was beautiful.

CobaltRose, ignore my post and read hers instead. She said it all much better.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to CobaltRose)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 11:05:32 AM   
CobaltRose


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I did read it. And i also admit maybe making this thread was selfish, because i made it also with my feelings in mind, because i too need a reminder. therapy isnt easily acessed for me, forcing me to discover things about myself by myself.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 11:33:48 AM   
DarkSteven


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Clarissa, transition takes a while. The hormones take a few years to fully kick in, learning how to handle the non-obvious stuff (voice inflections, walking, how to handle a handbag, etc.) takes a while, and even those who have had the operation had been in transition for a while. At your age, you really can't see how many aspects of your life will play out, including the transition itself. Heck, just because you're a submissive now at 21 doesn't mean you'll be one the rest of your life.

You can't assume anything will be either accessible or inaccessible at this point. Focus on getting your work/financial situation stabilized at this point. Transition, with or without SRS, ain't cheap.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to CobaltRose)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 2:01:28 PM   
Gauge


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Joined: 6/17/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CobaltRose

I did read it. And i also admit maybe making this thread was selfish, because i made it also with my feelings in mind, because i too need a reminder. therapy isnt easily acessed for me, forcing me to discover things about myself by myself.



Keep in mind what you are faced with is not necessarily what others are faced with, I understand your need to express your own discoveries and you are only trying to help someone else. You have gotten some solid advice, I suggest you listen. What is more important is your journey, once you get to the point where you can speak to people because you have gone through it, then you are in a position to give more prudent advice. I am quickly approaching my 14th year of continuous sobriety. Early on I was discovering a whole lot of things, but I kept my mouth shut and listened to others who had more sobriety time than I did. It was only until later that I began to share my experiences. Now, I am writing a book, 14 years later. My journey and sobriety time add to my ability to speak directly to others that may be experiencing the same things as I did, and I am able to give time tested advice rather than a short revelation.

I guess my point to you is that your intentions are good and you want to help others, but learn from your experience, get to a point that you can look back on what you went through and speak from a position of one who has been there already, not one that is still experiencing the struggle.

Best wishes to you.

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

(in reply to CobaltRose)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 11:35:14 PM   
LafayetteLady


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Clarissa,

I think many of us realize some of your struggles and even your need to affirm "out loud" that how you feel about your gender and who you are are ok feelings. But, since you lack experience and have only begun your journey, you aren't in much of a position to give advice to others.

Perhaps, instead of phrasing things as "advice," you could make "I feel" type affirmation statements about what you are discovering about yourself. And given the relatively recentness of you acknowledging this about yourself, I'm glad that you are finding the individual strength to know that the decision to have surgery or not should be an individuals choice.

(in reply to Gauge)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/9/2014 11:43:34 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

I think many of us realize some of your struggles and even your need to affirm "out loud" that how you feel about your gender and who you are are ok feelings.

Can't resist sharing a favorite quote.


“If you ask me what I came into this life to do,
I will tell you: I came to live out loud.”


EMILE ZOLA


_____________________________

No matter how cynical you become,
it's never enough to keep up.

JANE WAGNER, THE SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF
INTELLIGENT LIFE IN THE UNIVERSE

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/10/2014 6:34:03 AM   
CobaltRose


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

Clarissa,

I think many of us realize some of your struggles and even your need to affirm "out loud" that how you feel about your gender and who you are are ok feelings.


Thats pretty much the selfish reason why i posted it. And it wasnt much of "advice" as it was a "you are not alone" message. because many people (including myself) believe or believed that they are the only ones who dont want to get SRS (as opposed to simply not being able to.

< Message edited by CobaltRose -- 8/10/2014 6:37:03 AM >

(in reply to LafayetteLady)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/10/2014 6:47:40 AM   
njlauren


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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

I think many of us realize some of your struggles and even your need to affirm "out loud" that how you feel about your gender and who you are are ok feelings.

Can't resist sharing a favorite quote.


“If you ask me what I came into this life to do,
I will tell you: I came to live out loud.”


EMILE ZOLA


I second that thought, well said, LL! The first thing they teach you in support groups is what is known as the "I" perspective, to say things such as

"I think that if you want to transition, you need to find the right therapist" or whatever. Among other things, it is a lot less threatening to others, gets a lot less backs up when it is an idea, a though, rather than a command:)

(in reply to dcnovice)
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RE: To All Non-Op MtFs, You Are Not Alone. - 8/10/2014 7:13:44 AM   
njlauren


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Cobalt-

I realize you may not be in a position to see a therapist (If I remember, you are living at home, your mom is resistant to you seeing someone on her health insurance, if I remember correctly) but one of the things I'll tell you is that in my experience it is next to impossible to do this alone, without help, it is just too big a deal. At times I can remember being so scared and paralyzed, that if it hadn't been with the help of my therapist, I would have been locked away in the jail I made for myself (my first time 'out' I met her for dinner at a women's bar/restaurant). The net is wonderful in so many ways, there is so much stuff out there, but it is like reading a book about exercising rather than exercising, it won't do you any good until you do it. It is good you are thinking about yourself, it is good to try and figure out who you are, but it is very difficult from what I experienced and saw. There are things you can do, give your limitations, and several other people , DarkSteven and others, hit the nail on the head with in my opinion, and that is you not only need to figure out who you are, you kind of have to come up with a life plan.

You feel you aren't what you are living as, so the next step is to look and say "how do I explore this? How do I get to where I can figure this out?". Living at home is all great and good, but it also is stifling for many people, unless they have the kind of home where they feel safe talking about things like this (which is pretty rare, though getting better, lot of kids are getting support at home who might be trans), it is not beneficial.

You are young, which raises challenges (not working, maybe in school (?), still supported by your family, and to be honest,that is probably problem number 1. What do you want to do in terms of work? Are you in college, getting a degree, or are you working, or are you at home, not sure what to do? Being young has advantages, you won't face what many of us did, trying to do this after establishing lives, careers, families, doing it after living many years as a man (or woman for a F to M), being young has that opportunity as well as the challenges. If you are going to try and explore this path (remember, it is a journey, and like most journeys getting there is often more valuable than the destination) you need to become independent, to have the resources and the freedom to find who you are, to get away from an environment you have described as not supportive. It may not seem like 'transitioning', but all trans folks have at least at the back of their heads what they will do if they transition, and jobs are a biggie. You may think like there is nothing you can do other than think, but you have the ability, right now, to think about what you want to do, maybe a job you think would be a good one to transition in, and start working towards it. Maybe it would be getting a job that could get your foot in the door, maybe it would be taking classes if not in school, maybe it would be finishing a degree.....it might seem mundane, but guess what, that is an even more major consideration than it is for 'ordinary' people your age, and it is part of the process.

Likewise, things are not going to happen by osmosis. Hopefully you have your own transportation, I seem to recall you live in the DC area, there are LGBT community centers/groups all over the place, including northern Virginia. Google is great at this kind of thing, and there are listings of transgender support groups, LGBT centers and the like, find some in your area, and given them a call/reach out. Many of them offer counseling and support that won't cost you anything, and they probably have lists of therapists, many of whom operate on a sliding scale, including some who may work pro bono for patients like yourself who don't have resources. If you could get some kind of job, you could probably hook up with a sliding scale therapist to work with you. When I did support groups, it wasn't like we were all white collar professionals who had the means to pay for therapy and such, for every one of us, there were plenty of people like yourself, young, struggling and questioning. The thing is, they found the center I was at, and that is one of the keys, you have access to the net, to the phone, instead of sitting at home 'thinking' you also can be doing something about getting help...and I can't underestimate how important that is, ti is huge. Just getting on the phone, talking to someone for referrals, maybe finding a support group, is huge, as will be planning for your independence. I can tell you that the net, and all the forums and chat rooms and such, while they can be helpful also are a kind of false reality, it is very easy to sit there posting on those groups, those forums, chatting as 'ourselves', is also kind of like using drugs to numb emotional pain, it seems to work, but in the end keeps you from doing what you need to do. You might not think you have a lot of options to do anything, but you do, and I highly encourage you to use the net to find resources, to find LGBT groups, if simply to call for referals, maybe find groups, and start your journey. The biggest one is to find a way to get independent and get the heck away from living at home, of all the things I can see, that is huge, because among other things, it takes away a big excuse not to do anything.......one of the things I found quite common, including in myself, is to use other excuses to keep from exploring this, exploring this is scary as hell, it is frightening to think of going down this path, how hard it is, how fraught it is, and a natural reaction is to try and find ways not to do it....put it this way, it took me several years in therapy before I dared go out fully presenting as Lauren, to seek out help at a LGBT group and so forth, but once I did it a lot opened up:)

(in reply to njlauren)
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