quote:

ORIGINAL: altoonamaster

it amuses me so much hype about this black kid who apparently broke the law. yet no one seems to care about the officer and hid family

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


Do you not feel naming the officer as black is indeed bringing a racist narrative into the argument.

quote:

By your own admission, you didnt even try and confirm the facts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: altoonamaster

it amuses me so much hype about this black kid who apparently broke the law. yet no one seems to care about the officer and hid family

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: altoonamaster

it amuses me so much hype about this black kid who apparently broke the law. yet no one seems to care about the officer and hid family

Nice to see that you have everything as all figured out as Ken does, but I for one still want to know how an altercation that started at the driver's door of a police car wound up with a dead, unarmed, teenager 30 feet away from the car.

Neither the protesters, who fucked themselves by painting the fat thug as a saint, nor the people who instantly dismiss the institutionalized abuse of power within LE, are going to be of much use for the questions I'd like to see answered here.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
People here are ignoring the fact that the state police and FBI are conducting the investigation, the Ferguson is out of the loop and so they could tell us anything if they wanted to.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

FR
It seems that we have moved from the the point of the OP.
Some people started with the concept that because it was murder
it was a waste of time to condemn the rioters.
Others with the idea that murder or not rioting was wrong.
We have since entered a phase where a group of posters take any rumor against the cop as proof of his guilt.
Those of us who think we should wait till the facts come out are being cast as whitewashing the cop.
There are three police agencies involved in this and the Ferguson department has been removed from the loop.
That leaves the state police and the FBI doing what government does best, complicate things (to paraphrase Bert Gummer).
It will take a while for these two agencies to sort things out.
Meanwhile the FPD (the one organization not participating in the investigation) is being blamed for withholding information.
The officers name and the tape of Browns robbery where about the only things they could release ( the robbery because it was a second incident)
So the real questions we still have are
A Does anyone actually justify the violence (the store Brown robbed got looted last night) and how can they possibly do so when clearly they hurt the very people they claim be supporting.
B Do we want to jump to a snap judgement on the officer?
When the information comes out there will be plenty of time to lock Wilson up if he is guilty.
If he is innocent it will be too late to repair harm done to him and his family.
C If they went after the store Brown robbed what do you think will happen to the Wilson family if the opportunity arises. Who can justify that when we have virtually no facts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Disinformation campaign working to perfection for right wingers -- namely all of you are centered on a petty theft and not the killing of an unarmed man.

I have yet to read a credible account of Brown going for the officer's gun or a shot being fired off in the cruiser. Frankly, this story sounds insane.

---------

Witness Account from NYT:

<<Devin Stone, 28, a friend of Mr. Brown’s, was home in his apartment at the time, across the street from the place where the men were confronted by the police.

Sitting outside his building, Mr. Stone said he was jolted by the sound of two gunshots, followed by several more in rapid succession. The second series of shots “sounded automatic,” he said. “They let it rip.”

Mr. Stone ran outside and saw two police officers, both white men, standing near Mr. Brown, who was lying on his stomach, his arms at his sides, blood seeping from his head. Another neighbor, a woman who identified herself as a nurse, was begging the officers to let her perform CPR.

They refused, Mr. Stone said, adding, “They didn’t even check to see if he was breathing.”

On Friday, speaking to reporters, Chief Jackson said the shooting was “absolutely devastating” to Officer Wilson. “He never intended for any of this to happen.”>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/us/ferguson-mo-michael-brown-and-darren-wilson-2-paths-to-a-fatal-encounter.html?ref=us

quote:

ORIGINAL: hot4bondage

I may have missed some details, but I have at least three questions.

1. Apparently a customer reported the robbery/assault. Why didn't the store report it?
2. Why was the first and most widely distributed photo of Michael Brown so inaccurate? He looks about 13 and he's standing in front of a carousel horse. It gave a very different impression than the 230 pound man shown in the robbery video.
3. At least one witness supporting Mr. Brown claimed that the officer was attempting to drag him into the police car during the struggle. Don't cops usually have the suspect under control BEFORE they try to put them in their car?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
If everything was legit why did they
1) let Wilson and his squad leave the scene before evidence could be collected?
2) not lend aid to Brown and prevent bystanders from doing so?
3) not let the responding EMT's take him to the hospital as is SOP? (the ambulance was on scene within minutes of the shooting, depending on his injuries and distance to a trauma center...)
4) not release the incident report for over a week? Even with the officer's name redacted?
5) not release the coroner's report for days after it was completed?
6) not notify the chief but let him hear about this on the news?

There are enough things wrong here to make it look like a bungled cover up by a police force used to getting away with this sort of thing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
And that claim was quickly dropped because the claim was so ludicrous. Just look at the guy in question and try and imagine him reaching in a car window and getting a gun out of a safety holster and somehow firing it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

That is from St. Louis County police chief, Jon Belmar. Thanks for pointing it out. The source of information did not seem to come either from an official police report, the officer in question, or an actual investigation. (That Brown went for the officer's gun.)

Why would Mr. Brown go for the officer's gun? Can you explain to me the thinking there? You think he did this because he stole a box of cigars? It makes no sense.

---------

What is your explanation of this:

>The people who live in Canfield Green, the apartment complex where Brown was shot while on his way to visit his grandmother, not only witnessed his death but were subjected to an undignified wake: his prone figure sprawled on the street for four hours in the unforgiving August sun, with blood on the asphalt—an indignity in sharp contrast with the quick departure of the officer from the scene. “This was brazen,” Umana said to me. “It was done out in the open.” Better Family Life arranged for a bus with volunteer social workers and psychologists to be stationed near the spot to help community members cope with the trauma.<

Does that seemed fucked up to you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

That is from St. Louis County police chief, Jon Belmar. Thanks for pointing it out. The source of information did not seem to come either from an official police report, the officer in question, or an actual investigation. (That Brown went for the officer's gun.)

Why would Mr. Brown go for the officer's gun? Can you explain to me the thinking there? You think he did this because he stole a box of cigars? It makes no sense.

---------

What is your explanation of this:

>The people who live in Canfield Green, the apartment complex where Brown was shot while on his way to visit his grandmother, not only witnessed his death but were subjected to an undignified wake: his prone figure sprawled on the street for four hours in the unforgiving August sun, with blood on the asphalt—an indignity in sharp contrast with the quick departure of the officer from the scene. “This was brazen,” Umana said to me. “It was done out in the open.” Better Family Life arranged for a bus with volunteer social workers and psychologists to be stationed near the spot to help community members cope with the trauma.<

Does that seemed fucked up to you?

Maybe because he's a big guy who's used to getting his own way, through force if necessary. Since he'd just finished roughing up a store owner to get the cigars he wanted, that doesn't seem a huge stretch. Criminals don't always make logical decisions when confronted by police.

If you have a body, it generally can't be moved till a coroner arrives. Police can't transport a body, only the coroner's office. At least in most jurisdictions. If it's a small town, or a busy day, the coroner isn't always available. In which case, the body has to sit and wait.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


For someone who claims to have been in Law Enforcemt, facts are hardly your strong point.

Dont you even read your own fucking links >

quote:

Hours after the reports' release, police said that Officer Darren Wilson, 28, had no idea 18-year-old Brown was a robbery suspect. He simply wanted Brown to move from the road to the sidewalk, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson said at a news conference

Hey Polite

Just because the officer wasn't aware of what Brown had just done, Brown himself certainly was. If Brown assumed that he was about to be arrested for theft and assault, it might explain why the encounter turned violent. And regardless, it certainly paints Brown in an entirely different light then he's been touted as since this all started. The poor college bound youth, minding his own business when he's gunned-down by a murdering thug of an officer has a much different ring to it then robbery suspect shot after leaving store.

I am aware of that, I was just pointing out the claim made by Bama was unsubstantiated bollocks. And it said as much in his own link.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

Well of course it skews the application of criminal justice. Anyone paying attention knows we don't have a problem with mobs of Asians or Pacific Islanders or Hispanics or Whites going on rampages of vandalism and looting.

K.

[/font][/size]

Someone tell me he isnt being serious. [8|]

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

That is from St. Louis County police chief, Jon Belmar. Thanks for pointing it out. The source of information did not seem to come either from an official police report, the officer in question, or an actual investigation. (That Brown went for the officer's gun.)

Why would Mr. Brown go for the officer's gun? Can you explain to me the thinking there? You think he did this because he stole a box of cigars? It makes no sense.

People do stupid shit that makes no sense all the time, why should this situation be any different?

quote:

What is your explanation of this:

>The people who live in Canfield Green, the apartment complex where Brown was shot while on his way to visit his grandmother, not only witnessed his death but were subjected to an undignified wake: his prone figure sprawled on the street for four hours in the unforgiving August sun, with blood on the asphalt—an indignity in sharp contrast with the quick departure of the officer from the scene. “This was brazen,” Umana said to me. “It was done out in the open.” Better Family Life arranged for a bus with volunteer social workers and psychologists to be stationed near the spot to help community members cope with the trauma.<

Does that seemed fucked up to you?

Allowing the officer to leave the scene was prudent because keeping him at the scene could have been a serious problem. This was a potential crime scene, all sorts of things must be accounted for and documented. Would you rather have had them come in, pick the body up right away, spray the blood away and remove all traces it ever happened? That little blurb makes a big deal out of investigation the incident. It is terrible that people had to see it, but come on man, what are you supposed to do? If they cleaned up the area quickly they would be accused of not caring, they take their time to investigate and get the same accusation. You cannot win in that situation.

(1) Regarding people do "stupid shit." If I had to choose which was the more plausible explanation, it would be the police are trying to cover up an unlawful shooting. A 22 year old man with no record of violence -- he'd reach for a police officer's gun after being stopped. To me, this is quite hard to believe.

Hopefully the forensics can sort this out. A lie on top of an unlawful shooting (i.e. a coverup) makes matters even worse. Did you read DomKen's post about the prior instance of police brutality by this same police force, and how it does not keep records of it's officers use of excessive force in their personnel files? Also, the reaction of the community suggests a deeper problem -- aka that this is not an isolated incident. (Of course you know all this.)

(2) I would like to know what the normal procedure for securing a crime scene is. From what I've read, this crime scene was handled in an irregular fashion. One thing this police department is not -- is transparent and communicative with the local population. People might not be this upset if they had more explanations about what happened.

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The cops are giving answers at a slow pace in order to let the protesters have lots of rope to hang themselves with. They want people to engage in wild speculation, let the speculation get reported as fact, then shoot it down in flames when they do the next release at their leisure.

Sure, that certainly could be the case. Or it simply could be that people will engage in wild speculation as an event unfolds and those speculations are reported as factual or people believe them to be fact. The police do not have this luxury to speculate and be wrong, fact gathering, processing evidence and reviewing and re-questioning people all takes time. Or, you could spin it to make it look the way you tell it. Whatever fits your agenda.

There is little evidence that the Police are conducting an investigation of this shooting. From the outside, their actions look like a cover-up. If that's the perception of the greater population, then you must come forward with answers. Explain who will conduct the autopsy. Explain how the crime scene was secured. Say who the investigating officers are and what they are doing. Detail what witnesses have been interviewed. Detail the departmental procedures for reviews of shootings or whether or not excessive force was used. Say when forensic evidence will be ready for public disclosure. Invite community leaders into the station house.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: AQRMZ

TO dk

quit yer pissin dk, da wind is blowin it back on ya.

here is what I said in it' entirety, not the little snippit that you chose to drivel about. AND since I am on this subject, it should be noted
that Mr. Holder and our esteemed President Mr. Obama, who has experience as a "community organizer" chose to jump into this on the side of the "choirboyscout"
before everything was out on the table.
So just who would you say was more, in your words certainly not mine, "bigoted assholes".
I leave it to the readers to decide on that one.
My black girlfriend certainly knows who is.

No that isn't what you wrote bigot and what you have written clearly shows you to be a bigot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge
Allowing the officer to leave the scene was prudent because keeping him at the scene could have been a serious problem. This was a potential crime scene, all sorts of things must be accounted for and documented. Would you rather have had them come in, pick the body up right away, spray the blood away and remove all traces it ever happened? That little blurb makes a big deal out of investigation the incident. It is terrible that people had to see it, but come on man, what are you supposed to do? If they cleaned up the area quickly they would be accused of not caring, they take their time to investigate and get the same accusation. You cannot win in that situation.

Not a potential crime scene. It was a crime scene and by letting the perpetrator leave the scene before evidence was collected the scene was hopelessly contaminated.

However the victim should have been transported to the hospital. That is standard procedure. He might have been saved.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Disinformation campaign working to perfection for right wingers -- namely all of you are centered on a petty theft and not the killing of an unarmed man.

I have yet to read a credible account of Brown going for the officer's gun or a shot being fired off in the cruiser. Frankly, this story sounds insane.

---------

Witness Account from NYT:

<<Devin Stone, 28, a friend of Mr. Brown’s, was home in his apartment at the time, across the street from the place where the men were confronted by the police.

Sitting outside his building, Mr. Stone said he was jolted by the sound of two gunshots, followed by several more in rapid succession. The second series of shots “sounded automatic,” he said. “They let it rip.”

Mr. Stone ran outside and saw two police officers, both white men, standing near Mr. Brown, who was lying on his stomach, his arms at his sides, blood seeping from his head. Another neighbor, a woman who identified herself as a nurse, was begging the officers to let her perform CPR.

They refused, Mr. Stone said, adding, “They didn’t even check to see if he was breathing.”

On Friday, speaking to reporters, Chief Jackson said the shooting was “absolutely devastating” to Officer Wilson. “He never intended for any of this to happen.”>>

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/16/us/ferguson-mo-michael-brown-and-darren-wilson-2-paths-to-a-fatal-encounter.html?ref=us

I love the "credible report" disclaimer, translation, if I disagree with them they are not credible so I don't have to deal with the information.