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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 12:31:48 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
If Brown had surrendered when the fatal shot was fired then no matter what else transpired before it is a bad shooting and Wilson is in a lot of trouble.

There is a point to this question, Ken;

Has anyone ever punched you really hard, right in the middle of your face?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 401

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 12:40:28 PM

kdsub

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I am not saying what should happen... but the reaction to what could happen. I believe you are wrong if you think this will not be politicized. This is a powder keg with Republican policy makers rubbing their hands in glee.

The prosecuting attorney, whom is very political, has already made a statement against the way the Democratic Governor replaced the county police... do you really think African Americans will accept a decision by him not to press charges?

Every one has stepped in shit in this tragedy and NO ONE will win... Not African Americans that are coming off like thugs... Not the police who are looking like storm troopers... not the justice department that can't seem to do anything right.

I doubt very seriously that the final solution will be according to the truth of the evidence in the incident. It will be political.

Butch

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RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 12:58:07 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

There is a point to this question, Ken;

Has anyone ever punched you really hard, right in the middle of your face?

It would seem obvious that you would have had plenty of experience being punched really hard, right in the middle of your face.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 403

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 1:01:59 PM

thompsonx

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dp

< Message edited by thompsonx -- 8/17/2014 1:03:17 PM >

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 404

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 1:10:04 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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We are talking about two different sorts of outcomes, Butch. The outcome for the particular officer in the particular case, and the outcome for the community.

I made my prediction on how it will come out for the officer, and I think the community is in the process of fucking themselves.

How a DA in Missouri decides to exploit the political spin isn't going to affect my opinions. With or without a jury getting involved, I think Wilson is going to walk.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 405

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 1:21:52 PM

TheHeretic

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Poor Thompson. What an awful place it must be, inside his head.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 406

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 1:30:07 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thompsonx

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

There is a point to this question, Ken;

Has anyone ever punched you really hard, right in the middle of your face?

It would seem obvious that you would have had plenty of experience being punched really hard, right in the middle of your face.

Just out of curiosity where exactly is the middle of the face?

I reckon that if someone smashed your nose in you'd know about it. But, I suppose realistically someone could weigh up your face and decipher the middle in terms of longitude and knots and aim for the bullseye.

And, if it helps, in the North East of England slang for face is pyat.

Such as: "what's the matter with thy pyat?" Meaning: shape up you miserable cunt.

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(in reply to thompsonx)

Post #: 407

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 1:39:55 PM

TheHeretic

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of curiosity where exactly is the middle of the face?

The area between the bridge of the nose, down to the upper lip, and between the cheekbones. It's not an engineering term.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 408

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 1:46:25 PM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of curiosity where exactly is the middle of the face?

The area between the bridge of the nose, down to the upper lip, and between the cheekbones. It's not an engineering term.

Is this a scientific verifiable proposition Rich?

Last time I was attacked by a crocodile I gouged it's eyes out, and it turned out the horrible fucking thing, previously in the process of being hell bent on snapping my back, didn't appreciate a bit of holding inside and let me go.

So, for me, it's the eyes. For other people it's the beard or the chin - the window to the soul.

So, who knows.

Has someone been shot somewhere in the US? Saw it on the news last night. Don't watch much of the stuff because it's mind-numbing but in between putting the washing in and making a bacon sandwich I heard someone somewhere in Missouri has been shot?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 409

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 1:48:14 PM

thompsonx

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

The area between the bridge of the nose, down to the upper lip, and between the cheekbones. It's not an engineering term.

It would seem that your knowledge of anatomy may have been aided by your attackers.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 410

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 1:53:42 PM

ThirdWheelWanted

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

Hmmm, but the story by Brown's accomplice, that the cop reached out of the car and was strangling him makes so much more sense? You were in the military Ken, can you honestly tell me you think it's possible for someone wearing a vest and weapons belt to lean far enough out of a sedan window to strangle someone? Especially someone as big as Brown?

It wasn't a sedan. It was a SUV. So yes I can easily imagine it. Especially someone as big as Brown.

The witness (Johnson) describes it as a "cruiser" not an SUV, other reports just call it a car. Someone trying to reach up from the front seat of a cruiser, while wearing a vest and weapons belt would have a VERY hard time grabbing someone that tall by the throat. From an SUV, it would be easier.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 411

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 2:01:37 PM

BamaD

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of curiosity where exactly is the middle of the face?

The area between the bridge of the nose, down to the upper lip, and between the cheekbones. It's not an engineering term.

Is this a scientific verifiable proposition Rich?

Last time I was attacked by a crocodile I gouged it's eyes out, and it turned out the horrible fucking thing, previously in the process of being hell bent on snapping my back, didn't appreciate a bit of holding inside and let me go.

So, for me, it's the eyes. For other people it's the beard or the chin - the window to the soul.

So, who knows.

Has someone been shot somewhere in the US? Saw it on the news last night. Don't watch much of the stuff because it's mind-numbing but in between putting the washing in and making a bacon sandwich I heard someone somewhere in Missouri has been shot?

Got a lot of crocs in England do they?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 412

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 2:01:58 PM

DomKen

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From: Chicago, IL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
If Brown had surrendered when the fatal shot was fired then no matter what else transpired before it is a bad shooting and Wilson is in a lot of trouble.

There is a point to this question, Ken;

Has anyone ever punched you really hard, right in the middle of your face?

More than a few times. It doesn't get the cop off.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 413

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 2:03:37 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

Hmmm, but the story by Brown's accomplice, that the cop reached out of the car and was strangling him makes so much more sense? You were in the military Ken, can you honestly tell me you think it's possible for someone wearing a vest and weapons belt to lean far enough out of a sedan window to strangle someone? Especially someone as big as Brown?

It wasn't a sedan. It was a SUV. So yes I can easily imagine it. Especially someone as big as Brown.

The witness (Johnson) describes it as a "cruiser" not an SUV, other reports just call it a car. Someone trying to reach up from the front seat of a cruiser, while wearing a vest and weapons belt would have a VERY hard time grabbing someone that tall by the throat. From an SUV, it would be easier.

But .... But.....If Brown reached in and attacked Wilson maybe Wilson isn't a monster.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)

Post #: 414

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 2:10:26 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That is if your proposed version is right... what if it is not... what if the physical evidence backs up the offers story... or if the evidence could go either way... what do you say then? Do you really think any innocent declaration of this officer will be believed? Be truthful DomKen... I really would like an honest answer.

What if there is not enough evidence to bring charges because it is ones word against another? In normal circumstances charges would not be leveled in that case. What happens then?

I think we're going to have 2 autopsy reports. If they both say that all the shots hit him in back then it's a good shooting. If they all hit him in the back or while standing it is at least ambiguous. But if any hit him while he was kneeling the cop is toast.

I'm completely ignoring the witnesses. Although I would dearly like to have seen what was on the witnesses cell phones before the local cops got hold of them.

(in reply to kdsub)

Post #: 415

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 2:12:55 PM

DomKen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

Hmmm, but the story by Brown's accomplice, that the cop reached out of the car and was strangling him makes so much more sense? You were in the military Ken, can you honestly tell me you think it's possible for someone wearing a vest and weapons belt to lean far enough out of a sedan window to strangle someone? Especially someone as big as Brown?

It wasn't a sedan. It was a SUV. So yes I can easily imagine it. Especially someone as big as Brown.

The witness (Johnson) describes it as a "cruiser" not an SUV, other reports just call it a car. Someone trying to reach up from the front seat of a cruiser, while wearing a vest and weapons belt would have a VERY hard time grabbing someone that tall by the throat. From an SUV, it would be easier.

But .... But.....If Brown reached in and attacked Wilson maybe Wilson isn't a monster.

Only if the fatal shot had been fired as part of that struggle. Since every one agrees it wasn't it doesn't matter.

What matters is what happened afterwards. Try and understand that.

(in reply to BamaD)

Post #: 416

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 2:28:31 PM

BamaD

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What matters is what happened afterwards. Try and understand that.
=============================================

Ken highlighting your bias has no relationship to what I understand.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 417

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 2:29:50 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Has someone been shot somewhere in the US? Saw it on the news last night. Don't watch much of the stuff because it's mind-numbing but in between putting the washing in and making a bacon sandwich I heard someone somewhere in Missouri has been shot?

Well, people get shot here on pretty regular basis, but yeah, there was a thing in little suburb with its own police dept. The locals are all in a tizzy about it.

Some of us are hoping it will put a little sunlight on police tactics, but I suspect it's going to just be another case of people with serious and legitimate concerns picking the wrong poster child for the cause.

Nothing for you to concern yourself with, unless you were planning a trip to see the Gateway Arch.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 418

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 2:45:26 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
More than a few times. It doesn't get the cop off.

The resulting disorientation gets him to reasonable doubt. That's as far as it needs to go.

Of course, I'm speculating that it was a punch that caused the officer's reported facial injury. Given what we saw of the big fat thug in the security footage of the theft, an actual punch isn't even the most likely scenario. He probably hit or was hit by the car door. The punch just makes a good frame of reference for people to grasp how the cop can claim his perceptions might have been momentarily impaired as a result of the injury.

Now if the picture of his injury shows a forehead cut with blood running into his eye/s, that works just as well.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 419

RE: Rioting is the answer - 8/17/2014 3:19:20 PM

BamaD

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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

That is if your proposed version is right... what if it is not... what if the physical evidence backs up the offers story... or if the evidence could go either way... what do you say then? Do you really think any innocent declaration of this officer will be believed? Be truthful DomKen... I really would like an honest answer.

What if there is not enough evidence to bring charges because it is ones word against another? In normal circumstances charges would not be leveled in that case. What happens then?

I think we're going to have 2 autopsy reports. If they both say that all the shots hit him in back then it's a good shooting. If they all hit him in the back or while standing it is at least ambiguous. But if any hit him while he was kneeling the cop is toast.

I'm completely ignoring the witnesses. Although I would dearly like to have seen what was on the witnesses cell phones before the local cops got hold of them.

No,
A there were shots fired before he started running.
B your statement implies that if the reports are in conflict the one that looks worse for the cop takes precedence.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 420

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