RE: Rioting is the answer (Full Version)

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DomKen -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/22/2014 8:23:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And the point I'm making is the courts won't have a chance to establish this cops guilt or innocence if the prosecutor puts the fix in at the grand jury stage. As every one knows grand jury's always indict so if it doesn't there is a reason and that reason is the prosecutor didn't want them to. The grand jury in question has been handling dozens of cases per day and has never yet refused to return any indictment requested but suddenly this one case needs multiple days of testimony and the indictment is in doubt?

Sorry wrong again Grand juries do not always indict, if they did why bother with them.
My wife was on a grand jury that virtually laughed the prosecutor out of the room.
And of course by your "reasoning" if they don't indict it means the jury was fixed. Has it even occurred to you that maybe they are being very, very careful? I know you wouldn't because "grand juries always indict" anyway so details don't matter, it's just a rubber stamp. But I, and anyone else who thinks would.

There is a truism about grand juries. They will indict a ham sandwich if the prosecutor wants them to. The process is simple, present the state's side and the grand jury indicts. There is a reason many jurisdictions have gone to probable cause hearings instead. They are more transparent, they are held in open court.

You can look into the St. Louis county grand jury if you wish. The summer jury has yet to fail to return an indictment and has never had a case presented over more than one day. As a matter of fact they are averaging more like 20 cases per day, they only meet once a week.



BamaD -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/22/2014 8:57:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And the point I'm making is the courts won't have a chance to establish this cops guilt or innocence if the prosecutor puts the fix in at the grand jury stage. As every one knows grand jury's always indict so if it doesn't there is a reason and that reason is the prosecutor didn't want them to. The grand jury in question has been handling dozens of cases per day and has never yet refused to return any indictment requested but suddenly this one case needs multiple days of testimony and the indictment is in doubt?
And it is still clear that if they don't give you what you want you will whine foul.

Sorry wrong again Grand juries do not always indict, if they did why bother with them.
My wife was on a grand jury that virtually laughed the prosecutor out of the room.
And of course by your "reasoning" if they don't indict it means the jury was fixed. Has it even occurred to you that maybe they are being very, very careful? I know you wouldn't because "grand juries always indict" anyway so details don't matter, it's just a rubber stamp. But I, and anyone else who thinks would.

There is a truism about grand juries. They will indict a ham sandwich if the prosecutor wants them to. The process is simple, present the state's side and the grand jury indicts. There is a reason many jurisdictions have gone to probable cause hearings instead. They are more transparent, they are held in open court.

You can look into the St. Louis county grand jury if you wish. The summer jury has yet to fail to return an indictment and has never had a case presented over more than one day. As a matter of fact they are averaging more like 20 cases per day, they only meet once a week.

I have never approved of Grand Juries but hold probable cause hearing in open court when things are as volatile as this. You want to be sure nobody dares anything in favor of Wilson don't you. Of course you already know he is guilty so any evidence in his favor is a lie anyway.



BamaD -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/22/2014 9:19:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And the point I'm making is the courts won't have a chance to establish this cops guilt or innocence if the prosecutor puts the fix in at the grand jury stage. As every one knows grand jury's always indict so if it doesn't there is a reason and that reason is the prosecutor didn't want them to. The grand jury in question has been handling dozens of cases per day and has never yet refused to return any indictment requested but suddenly this one case needs multiple days of testimony and the indictment is in doubt?

Sorry wrong again Grand juries do not always indict, if they did why bother with them.
My wife was on a grand jury that virtually laughed the prosecutor out of the room.
And of course by your "reasoning" if they don't indict it means the jury was fixed. Has it even occurred to you that maybe they are being very, very careful? I know you wouldn't because "grand juries always indict" anyway so details don't matter, it's just a rubber stamp. But I, and anyone else who thinks would.

There is a truism about grand juries. They will indict a ham sandwich if the prosecutor wants them to. The process is simple, present the state's side and the grand jury indicts. There is a reason many jurisdictions have gone to probable cause hearings instead. They are more transparent, they are held in open court.

You can look into the St. Louis county grand jury if you wish. The summer jury has yet to fail to return an indictment and has never had a case presented over more than one day. As a matter of fact they are averaging more like 20 cases per day, they only meet once a week.

If you had three active brain cells you would know that if the prosecutor was tying to "fix" it he would go in spend 10 minutes giving the lamest argument he could then come out and say well I tried.



DomKen -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/22/2014 10:44:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And the point I'm making is the courts won't have a chance to establish this cops guilt or innocence if the prosecutor puts the fix in at the grand jury stage. As every one knows grand jury's always indict so if it doesn't there is a reason and that reason is the prosecutor didn't want them to. The grand jury in question has been handling dozens of cases per day and has never yet refused to return any indictment requested but suddenly this one case needs multiple days of testimony and the indictment is in doubt?

Sorry wrong again Grand juries do not always indict, if they did why bother with them.
My wife was on a grand jury that virtually laughed the prosecutor out of the room.
And of course by your "reasoning" if they don't indict it means the jury was fixed. Has it even occurred to you that maybe they are being very, very careful? I know you wouldn't because "grand juries always indict" anyway so details don't matter, it's just a rubber stamp. But I, and anyone else who thinks would.

There is a truism about grand juries. They will indict a ham sandwich if the prosecutor wants them to. The process is simple, present the state's side and the grand jury indicts. There is a reason many jurisdictions have gone to probable cause hearings instead. They are more transparent, they are held in open court.

You can look into the St. Louis county grand jury if you wish. The summer jury has yet to fail to return an indictment and has never had a case presented over more than one day. As a matter of fact they are averaging more like 20 cases per day, they only meet once a week.

If you had three active brain cells you would know that if the prosecutor was tying to "fix" it he would go in spend 10 minutes giving the lamest argument he could then come out and say well I tried.

And then the no bill would have come down while emotions were still running high. This way they drag this out for what, months?, and then once the weather gets nasty then they finish their case and then they let the grand jury return no indictment and hope no one riots.

I'm clearly smarter than you and the prosecutor is a successful politician who has held office for over a decade so always assume he's devious.



BamaD -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/22/2014 11:02:38 PM)

I'm clearly smarter than you

And people say you have no sense of humor.
Not only am I smarter than you but so is my dog.
It isn't going to drag out anything like that.
By that time Ferguson would be burned to the ground.
But of course you will have forgotten this paranoid rant by then.



DomKen -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 5:36:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I'm clearly smarter than you

And people say you have no sense of humor.
Not only am I smarter than you but so is my dog.
It isn't going to drag out anything like that.
By that time Ferguson would be burned to the ground.
But of course you will have forgotten this paranoid rant by then.

You truly are dumber than advertised.

The whole point of the long grand jury process is to get into bad weather for the no bill announcement so there won't be rioting. This is St. Louis not LA. Who ever heard of this sort of grand jury process taking more than a few minutes? Yet this one is being projected to take months?
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-grand-jury-ferguson-michael-brown-20140820-story.html



ThirdWheelWanted -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 5:57:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

As to your continued whining about the other case, notice that the cop was fired from his job and an arbitrator ordered him reinstated. That means that not just the local DA found the shooting justified so did the independent arbitrator hired by the police force. That's two separate investigations that both found the same way. Also note that the "bereaved" family has yet to try filing a wrongful death suit. If they really thought they had a case they would have sued now wouldn't they?


Actually, that's not two separate "investigations". Arbitration isn't an investigation, it's basically more of a relaxed trial. Both sides present their case to an independent judge/arbitrator and agree to abide by their ruling. (Oh, and saying that the arbitrator was "hired by the police" is misleading. Generally an arbitrator is agree to and hired by, both sides, hence the word independent. The implication the way you phrased it was that even the guy the police hired sided with the officer.) Arbitration would be heavily influenced by the fact that he wasn't indicted. If I were a lawyer defending the officer, that's what I'd push. So, if the DA was biased towards the police, which is what you're contending in the Brown case and pretty much every other one I've seen come up, and failed to prosecute for that reason, that factor would have been strongly in the officers favor during arbitration.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Binding+arbitration
The submission of a dispute to an unbiased third person designated by the parties to the controversy, who agree in advance to comply with the award—a decision to be issued after a hearing at which both parties have an opportunity to be heard.

As to why the family hasn't sued, perhaps for the exact reason above. The easiest way to win a lawsuit is if the person you're suing has already been convicted criminally. Sometimes you can win a civil suit when a conviction wasn't achieved during a criminal trial, OJ springs to mind, but it's much easier when you can start off by pointing out that a person was already found criminally liable. So since the officer wasn't indicted, and arbitration restored him to his job, it's likely no lawyer would take the civil suit on spec and they probably couldn't afford to hire one outright. A lawyer might also point out that the victim's racist tirade wouldn't play well with a jury, and that might be another reason not to accept the case.



BamaD -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 6:12:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I'm clearly smarter than you

And people say you have no sense of humor.
Not only am I smarter than you but so is my dog.
It isn't going to drag out anything like that.
By that time Ferguson would be burned to the ground.
But of course you will have forgotten this paranoid rant by then.

You truly are dumber than advertised.

The whole point of the long grand jury process is to get into bad weather for the no bill announcement so there won't be rioting. This is St. Louis not LA. Who ever heard of this sort of grand jury process taking more than a few minutes? Yet this one is being projected to take months?
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-grand-jury-ferguson-michael-brown-20140820-story.html

Duh I understood the point. By the time that happened Ferguson would be burned to the ground.
You are the Ambrose Burnside of political debate.



thishereboi -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 6:13:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I'm clearly smarter than you

And people say you have no sense of humor.
Not only am I smarter than you but so is my dog.
It isn't going to drag out anything like that.
By that time Ferguson would be burned to the ground.
But of course you will have forgotten this paranoid rant by then.

You truly are dumber than advertised.

The whole point of the long grand jury process is to get into bad weather for the no bill announcement so there won't be rioting. This is St. Louis not LA. Who ever heard of this sort of grand jury process taking more than a few minutes? Yet this one is being projected to take months?
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-grand-jury-ferguson-michael-brown-20140820-story.html



According to the link you provided they expect them to be done about mid October. And from everything I have read that means that it might get down into the 40's or 50's. Now how the fuck is that going to stop anyone from rioting? Maybe you should stop and think about those talking points that you are being fed and ask your self if they make any sense before you start spewing them on the forums like they are facts.



ThirdWheelWanted -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 6:14:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The whole point of the long grand jury process is to get into bad weather for the no bill announcement so there won't be rioting. This is St. Louis not LA. Who ever heard of this sort of grand jury process taking more than a few minutes? Yet this one is being projected to take months?


The opening statement of the Grand Jury report for the Oklahoma City Bombing

We, the Grand Jury, duly empanelled on the 30th day of June, 1997, and charged with the responsibility of investigating all public offenses against the State committed or triable within Oklahoma County as contained in the petition for calling of the Grand Jury duly filed in the Office of the Court Clerk of Oklahoma County on June 2, 1997, and having in a fair and impartial manner, to the best of our abilities and understanding and with due regard to the Court's instructions, and having heard 117 witnesses and received 1,909 exhibits and having fully considered any and all complaints alleged to exist in Oklahoma County, and having been in session for 133 working days, and having heretofore after due deliberation voted according to law, the Grand Jury submits to this Honorable Court its Final Report as follows:

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/GrandJuryReport.htm



BamaD -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 6:21:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

The whole point of the long grand jury process is to get into bad weather for the no bill announcement so there won't be rioting. This is St. Louis not LA. Who ever heard of this sort of grand jury process taking more than a few minutes? Yet this one is being projected to take months?


The opening statement of the Grand Jury report for the Oklahoma City Bombing

We, the Grand Jury, duly empanelled on the 30th day of June, 1997, and charged with the responsibility of investigating all public offenses against the State committed or triable within Oklahoma County as contained in the petition for calling of the Grand Jury duly filed in the Office of the Court Clerk of Oklahoma County on June 2, 1997, and having in a fair and impartial manner, to the best of our abilities and understanding and with due regard to the Court's instructions, and having heard 117 witnesses and received 1,909 exhibits and having fully considered any and all complaints alleged to exist in Oklahoma County, and having been in session for 133 working days, and having heretofore after due deliberation voted according to law, the Grand Jury submits to this Honorable Court its Final Report as follows:

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/GrandJuryReport.htm


So we are back to doing a detailed job to those not suffering from paranoid delusions.



BamaD -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 6:23:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I'm clearly smarter than you

And people say you have no sense of humor.
Not only am I smarter than you but so is my dog.
It isn't going to drag out anything like that.
By that time Ferguson would be burned to the ground.
But of course you will have forgotten this paranoid rant by then.

You truly are dumber than advertised.

The whole point of the long grand jury process is to get into bad weather for the no bill announcement so there won't be rioting. This is St. Louis not LA. Who ever heard of this sort of grand jury process taking more than a few minutes? Yet this one is being projected to take months?
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-grand-jury-ferguson-michael-brown-20140820-story.html



According to the link you provided they expect them to be done about mid October. And from everything I have read that means that it might get down into the 40's or 50's. Now how the fuck is that going to stop anyone from rioting? Maybe you should stop and think about those talking points that you are being fed and ask your self if they make any sense before you start spewing them on the forums like they are facts.

And it also doesn't preclude riots between now and then because they are "stalling"



thishereboi -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 6:33:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I'm clearly smarter than you

And people say you have no sense of humor.
Not only am I smarter than you but so is my dog.
It isn't going to drag out anything like that.
By that time Ferguson would be burned to the ground.
But of course you will have forgotten this paranoid rant by then.

You truly are dumber than advertised.

The whole point of the long grand jury process is to get into bad weather for the no bill announcement so there won't be rioting. This is St. Louis not LA. Who ever heard of this sort of grand jury process taking more than a few minutes? Yet this one is being projected to take months?
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-grand-jury-ferguson-michael-brown-20140820-story.html



According to the link you provided they expect them to be done about mid October. And from everything I have read that means that it might get down into the 40's or 50's. Now how the fuck is that going to stop anyone from rioting? Maybe you should stop and think about those talking points that you are being fed and ask your self if they make any sense before you start spewing them on the forums like they are facts.

And it also doesn't preclude riots between now and then because they are "stalling"



Well since we started with DK's wacked out theory, maybe we should take it one step further. It's possible that they are delaying the grand jury in order to really piss off the rioters and force them to become even more violent to the point they are not even aware of what's going on around them. Then in October when that really bad weather comes and all those protesters are standing around they are going to spray them with fire hoses and make snowmen out of all of them. And anyone who has ever seen Frosty knows that all snowmen are happy jolly folk who would never hurt anyone. Problem solved. It's all so clear now.



BamaD -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 6:35:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I'm clearly smarter than you

And people say you have no sense of humor.
Not only am I smarter than you but so is my dog.
It isn't going to drag out anything like that.
By that time Ferguson would be burned to the ground.
But of course you will have forgotten this paranoid rant by then.

You truly are dumber than advertised.

The whole point of the long grand jury process is to get into bad weather for the no bill announcement so there won't be rioting. This is St. Louis not LA. Who ever heard of this sort of grand jury process taking more than a few minutes? Yet this one is being projected to take months?
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-grand-jury-ferguson-michael-brown-20140820-story.html



According to the link you provided they expect them to be done about mid October. And from everything I have read that means that it might get down into the 40's or 50's. Now how the fuck is that going to stop anyone from rioting? Maybe you should stop and think about those talking points that you are being fed and ask your self if they make any sense before you start spewing them on the forums like they are facts.

And it also doesn't preclude riots between now and then because they are "stalling"



Well since we started with DK's wacked out theory, maybe we should take it one step further. It's possible that they are delaying the grand jury in order to really piss off the rioters and force them to become even more violent to the point they are not even aware of what's going on around them. Then in October when that really bad weather comes and all those protesters are standing around they are going to spray them with fire hoses and make snowmen out of all of them. And anyone who has ever seen Frosty knows that all snowmen are happy jolly folk who would never hurt anyone. Problem solved. It's all so clear now.

Makes as much sense as anything Ken says.



Kirata -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 6:40:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen
quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

If you had three active brain cells you would know that if the prosecutor was tying to "fix" it he would go in spend 10 minutes giving the lamest argument he could then come out and say well I tried.

And then the no bill would have come down while emotions were still running high. This way they drag this out for what, months?, and then once the weather gets nasty then they finish their case and then they let the grand jury return no indictment and hope no one riots.

I'm clearly smarter than you and the prosecutor is a successful politician who has held office for over a decade so always assume he's devious.

Yeah, you're a fucking genius.

As a grand jury began investigating whether a Ferguson police officer should be criminally charged for the death of Michael Brown, the embattled community, hit by violent protests the past 11 days, enjoyed its first night of relative calm since the teen was killed... ~USA Today

K.




DomKen -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 6:42:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi


quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I'm clearly smarter than you

And people say you have no sense of humor.
Not only am I smarter than you but so is my dog.
It isn't going to drag out anything like that.
By that time Ferguson would be burned to the ground.
But of course you will have forgotten this paranoid rant by then.

You truly are dumber than advertised.

The whole point of the long grand jury process is to get into bad weather for the no bill announcement so there won't be rioting. This is St. Louis not LA. Who ever heard of this sort of grand jury process taking more than a few minutes? Yet this one is being projected to take months?
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-grand-jury-ferguson-michael-brown-20140820-story.html



According to the link you provided they expect them to be done about mid October. And from everything I have read that means that it might get down into the 40's or 50's. Now how the fuck is that going to stop anyone from rioting? Maybe you should stop and think about those talking points that you are being fed and ask your self if they make any sense before you start spewing them on the forums like they are facts.

Maybe you should get your head out of your ass. Mid October at the earliest. And that gets them out of the hot summer and that is good enough in their minds.



BamaD -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 6:48:04 AM)

Maybe you should get your head out of your ass. Mid October at the earliest. And that gets them out of the hot summer and that is good enough in their minds.

Paranoia thy name is Ken
Still you are saying any ruling other than the one you want, when you want it,
is the result of corruption.



Kirata -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 7:07:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Maybe you should get your head out of your ass. Mid October at the earliest. And that gets them out of the hot summer and that is good enough in their minds.

Paranoia thy name is Ken
Still you are saying any ruling other than the one you want, when you want it,
is the result of corruption.

The Grand Jury only meets on Wednesdays, and we're already almost into September, so getting everything before them and a finding on record by early-mid October is reasonable timing. Hardly dragging it out. Nor does it seem that it will take until colder weather for things to settle down (see previous post). I think it's becoming clear that this isn't the case certain interests have tried to make it out to be. But that won't slow Ken down...

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

As every one knows grand jury's always indict so if it doesn't there is a reason and that reason is the prosecutor didn't want them to.

What everybody knows, Ken, is that you're just a rope looking for a tree.

K.




Kirata -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 7:55:48 AM)


~ FR ~

An amazing new act enters the center ring...

A prominent New Orleans attorney now represents the eyewitness at the center of the investigation into the shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo. Dorian Johnson, 22, who was with Brown when he was shot to death by a police officer, has hired James Williams and a St. Louis-based partner...

Williams is in St. Louis, and made the media circuit Friday (Aug. 22) to redirect attention from his client and toward the officer who shot Brown, Darren Wilson. ~Source

Faced with autopsy findings showing that Johnson's claims of Brown being shot in the back are bunk, Williams staunchly defended his client's credibility.

Step right up, folks.

K.





mnottertail -> RE: Rioting is the answer (8/23/2014 7:59:49 AM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOh5L6zXHB4&feature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n95mxT1AkpI

So, much remains to be seen still.



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