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RE: IRL meetings - 8/30/2014 1:32:08 PM   
ClassAct2006


Posts: 318
Joined: 4/12/2006
Status: offline 		Lots of submissives are feminists. I am. I earned 10x my husband and it was never an issue between us.
I didn't know there were still women today who expect men to pay for everything. That is not how much of us are.

Avoid women who want men to pay for everything. Long term they are not the right women for most men. Ignore how big her breasts or however pretty she is and look at those other issues like her career, life aims and the like.

(in reply to missbrownjinx)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: IRL meetings - 8/30/2014 3:46:56 PM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline 		I always pay when I take a woman out... If she is taking me out, she's paying.

Jus sayin

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To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to ClassAct2006)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: IRL meetings - 8/30/2014 4:06:32 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TNDommeK

Drop both, keep looking.


Advice so nice, I said it twice!

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: IRL meetings - 8/30/2014 4:28:43 PM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ClassAct2006

Lots of submissives are feminists. I am. I earned 10x my husband and it was never an issue between us.
I didn't know there were still women today who expect men to pay for everything. That is not how much of us are.

Avoid women who want men to pay for everything. Long term they are not the right women for most men. Ignore how big her breasts or however pretty she is and look at those other issues like her career, life aims and the like.


Ah, where to even begin with this one?

Does feminism *really* mean "paying your own way"? Or, gasp, also paying someone else's? The way I was educated, feminism, at it's non-bastardized essence, is about *choice*. If you have a vagina, you CAN be president. You CAN be a Supreme Court Justice. And, you CAN decide that you want a man who will take care of you.

Much like there are submissives who are feminists, there are also very intelligent, motivated women who *want* to be taken care of by their male partner. And, if there is agreement between the parties, where in the hell is the harm?

Personally, I would have issues being with a man who expected that I "paid my own way" in all that we did. (Of course, there are specific financial issues that may come up, like loss of a job or the like- but I"m just speaking generally here.) I had a male friend several years ago who was out actively dating. Inevitably, I'd hear about the date the next day, and how he was pissed that she "didn't even offer to pay her share" of the dinner. I'd ask him, "did you invite her out?". "Well, yes". "So where's the problem?". Where this *expectation* comes from, I have no idea. If I am invited out on a date, I have an expectation that the person doing the inviting will be doing the paying. And, on the other side, if I do the inviting, I will be paying. People have different ideas about this, of course, but I do wonder where the idea of "paying one's own way" became an accepted, "right" way of doing things.

IMO, the same idea would apply if I were invited to spend time away with someone that I had been dating. This actually happened to me a short time ago. There was absolutely no expectation that I would "pay my own way", and why would there be? I did pick up the tab for a couple of meals- because *I* felt I wanted to do it. And, just as important, this is what he *wanted* to do.

Having a career and "life goals", and allowing a man to pay for things are definitely not mutually exclusive. At the end of the day, I have yet to see any definitive rulebook that says differently.



(in reply to ClassAct2006)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: IRL meetings - 8/30/2014 4:55:50 PM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline 		littleladybug- you and I are becoming FAST friends!
great post!

(in reply to littleladybug)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: IRL meetings - 8/31/2014 4:48:05 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

The way I was educated, feminism, at it's non-bastardized essence, is about *choice*.... And, you CAN decide that you want a man who will take care of you.

Much like there are submissives who are feminists, there are also very intelligent, motivated women who *want* to be taken care of by their male partner. And, if there is agreement between the parties, where in the hell is the harm?
<snip>
Personally, I would have issues being with a man who expected that I "paid my own way" in all that we did.
Having a career and "life goals", and allowing a man to pay for things are definitely not mutually exclusive.

It is all about CHOICE. My mother was a stay-at-home mom and a wonderful homemaker. Once my dad was retired, she became bored and got a job managing a donut shot and working at a ski resort, not because she *had* to but because she wanted to. Many women don't have the luxury of *choice* in the matter due to economic considerations.
Being a feminist does not mean continuing to be a workhorse when your heart's desire is to raise your own baby and do full-time parenting instead of handing off your children to (unrelated) others to raise half of or part of the day. Since the advent of nuclear families, we no longer have grandparents and relatives we can safely rely upon as a support system to help with child-rearing.

What my girlfriends, female co-workers, colleagues & associates, and I have found since around the '80s is that instead of a *truly* egalitarian mentality, the mindset of some modern men is to reap whatever rewards they can at the woman's expense (and many of these same men secretly want to be the one to play the old-fashioned feminine role of being taken care of like a woman [man-child] and pampered--as if that's how ALL females get indulged in their feeble minds ), no different than that mooching "friend" we have all encountered at one time or another in our lives (the one who doesn't think he should ever have to pay his own way, much less treat his friends on occasion).

Side Note: Beware of such "egalitarian"-minded men, those who insist a woman *should* always pay her own way and who exhibit other early signs of stinginess. Mark my words, not only are they clueless on how to act like a gentleman, but they don't think with masculine minds.

< Message edited by FieryOpal -- 8/31/2014 5:06:42 AM >

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Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to littleladybug)
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RE: IRL meetings - 8/31/2014 5:36:59 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
Side Note: Beware of such "egalitarian"-minded men, those who insist a woman *should* always pay her own way and who exhibit other early signs of stinginess. Mark my words, not only are they clueless on how to act like a gentleman, but they don't think with masculine minds.

And yet women want, and often insist, on being treated equally??

In my world, if you want equal treatment and equal shares in the good bits, you'll have to shoulder equal shares in the bad bits, the hard work, and the costs of bringing the good bits to the table.

Not everyone is 'clueless'.
Though I have to admit, an awful lot are just that... Clueless!



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(in reply to FieryOpal)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: IRL meetings - 8/31/2014 6:04:41 AM   
FieryOpal


Posts: 2821
Joined: 12/8/2013
From: Maryland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1
quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal
Side Note: Beware of such "egalitarian"-minded men, those who insist a woman *should* always pay her own way and who exhibit other early signs of stinginess. Mark my words, not only are they clueless on how to act like a gentleman, but they don't think with masculine minds.

And yet women want, and often insist, on being treated equally??

In my world, if you want equal treatment and equal shares in the good bits, you'll have to shoulder equal shares in the bad bits, the hard work, and the costs of bringing the good bits to the table.

Not everyone is 'clueless'.
Though I have to admit, an awful lot are just that... Clueless!

You are correct that women have insisted on being treated, at the very minimum as "equal," as in not less than men, since starting in the '60s&'70s in our popular culture. (We didn't have to during the intensive war effort years of WWII or as far back as WWI when women were instrumental in keeping the country running while you *soldier boys* were out fighting wars.) This has more to do with Equal Rights at the starting gate, whether as a gender issue, an ethno-racial one, or with dissolving social class barriers. If you will recall, the early Suffragettes fighting to get women the vote less than a century ago, were also the same female Abolitionists who actively fought for the emancipation of slaves, as well as for child labor laws to protect minors.

Much like the nouveau riche, there are those who are insecure with their newfound "wealth" of opportunity, with new vistas being opened to them. The pendulum often swings to extremes before finally finding it's middle point of rest and centeredness. There were and are still women who are insecure with their womanhood and femininity, who mistakenly believe that they have to "act" more like men (i.e. aggressively) in order to get taken seriously.

Equal, however, does not mean the "same," and that's the crux of the huge misunderstanding that both men and women have. What women in the past resented was how the equal distribution of (unpaid) labor was not recognized as a valid contribution to the household, to the family, and to society as a whole. This has nothing to do with everybody doing their fair share; that isn't limited to marriages or to relationships, and is valid in all walks of life.

_____________________________

Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage. - Lao Tzu
There is no remedy for love but to love more. - Thoreau

(in reply to freedomdwarf1)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: IRL meetings - 8/31/2014 6:16:30 AM   
Kaliko


Posts: 3381
Joined: 9/25/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug

Personally, I would have issues being with a man who expected that I "paid my own way" in all that we did. (Of course, there are specific financial issues that may come up, like loss of a job or the like- but I"m just speaking generally here.) I had a male friend several years ago who was out actively dating. Inevitably, I'd hear about the date the next day, and how he was pissed that she "didn't even offer to pay her share" of the dinner. I'd ask him, "did you invite her out?". "Well, yes". "So where's the problem?". Where this *expectation* comes from, I have no idea. If I am invited out on a date, I have an expectation that the person doing the inviting will be doing the paying. And, on the other side, if I do the inviting, I will be paying. People have different ideas about this, of course, but I do wonder where the idea of "paying one's own way" became an accepted, "right" way of doing things.



Hmm. I've been out a bajillion times with women who invited me to have lunch with them, and each of us always paid our own way, unless it was expressly a gift like a birthday lunch or something. And I've been out on many (okay, not a bajillion) dates with men and they almost always paid. In my experience, the "Did you invite her out" approach couldn't be equally applied. And then, even when dating, it would often be shared expenses - he'd get dinner one night, I'd get the movie the next, etc.


(in reply to littleladybug)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: IRL meetings - 8/31/2014 8:20:31 AM   
Spiritedsub2


Posts: 3316
Joined: 7/18/2012
Status: online 		Same here; my friends and I always split the costs regardless of which person did the inviting. Not so with men and dates. In my experience men paying for women on dates is more of a social cue than anything else. I can afford to pay my own way for whatever, so for me, a man expecting me to pay my way is more of an indicator of things to come than a financial issue for that date. We signal each other in so many subtle ways how we are likely to treat each other down the road, and this is just one of them. For me I'd regard it as a red flag if he expected me to pay my way on our dates starting out. Many men are looking for financial support from women and I keep a wary eye out for this.

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~ Rumi

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(in reply to Kaliko)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: IRL meetings - 8/31/2014 10:36:45 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: goodsubinCO

I am just curious what one is supposed to do when the Dom you are with ignore your HARD LIMITS? Other than refusing to ever meet them again? The first Dom I met did just that. And now he wonders why I have no desire to go and meet him for a play date. I have told him that I have a new Dom and am interested in only being friends with him. My LIMITS were not that hard to follow.. No Crops, No marks, and no cumming in my mouth.. He totally ignored all three of them.

He told me that he had been a sub before, and all I can say is the Domme he was a sub to must have been a very sadistic woman. It was like he was ignoring my HARD LIMITS just to prove to me who was in charge. After that all I can say is I will NEVER submit to him ever again.

Alot of the 65 minutes that we spent together it was as if he was making up reasons to punish me knowing full well that what he was asking me to do was beyond my control. Talk about a mind fuck... Why not just say, I am going to spank you because I want to? I could have understood that much better. Unfortunately now when the new Dom says I need to be spanked, I ask "in a good way or bad way, and what did I do wrong?" Guess that is why we are taking things slowly because he is having to prove to me that he is trustworthy.

Sheryl aka goodsubinCO


refusing to ever see him again sounds like a good idea. Other than that what do you think you should do? Learn from the experience and move on. Oh and from what you said in your first post, you don't have a new dom, you have a new asshole. How long you plan to put up with him is up to you. Personally I would be hoping he never came back from the mountains and if he did I would kick him to the curb with the first one. Then maybe you should take a step back and ask yourself why you keep hooking up with these kinds of men.

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


(in reply to goodsubinCO)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: IRL meetings - 10/10/2014 5:59:48 PM   
charlottesubgirl


Posts: 4
Joined: 9/5/2014
Status: offline 		From what I have experienced, this behavior is not typical of Doms or people who generally respect others. But first it is important to decide what you want to offer in terms of your submission. It seems like he has assumed that financial security is a service you are willing to offer him. You have stated that you cannot keep on paying for everything, so that is something that you should tell your Dom, as it is information he needs to know. And any Dom would understand if you actually cannot do something that it is not productive to try to force you to comply.

Some Doms (and vanilla men) I have been with insisted on paying for everything and that is ok if they desire to, but it seems like a good practice for both to offer to pay for roughly half of the expenses so that the burden does not fall only on one repeatedly. As the submissive, I very much desire for my presence to improve my Dom's life, not to inhibit him financially. And since D/s is first a caring relationship between two people, I would be surprised if most Doms do not feel that way, as well. If I was unable to pay for half of an activity (or alternating activities) I would tell my Dom before the activity began so that he would have the option of paying for it entirely or he would find something else that he wanted to do that I could afford helping to pay for. I suppose the exception to that would be if his financial domination of you were part of your relationship (where you would pay for things indirectly by giving him control of your finances), but that is not what I am suggesting happen in this case.

It is never a good sign for the Dom (the person that you are going to be trusting and relying upon for your wellbeing) to be so unprepared as to not have funds to eat or get a ride home. The fact that he refuses professional medical attention and believes it is fine to physically exert himself to the point of dehydration is also alarming as this might further indicate of his lack of good judgment. And you are right to also avoid the first Dom you spent time with. It is too bad you have had these experiences initially, I hope your search goes better in the future.


(in reply to missbrownjinx)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: IRL meetings - 10/10/2014 7:33:23 PM   
DaddySatyr


Posts: 9381
Joined: 8/29/2011
From: Pittston, Pennsyltucky
Status: offline
There are so many good things going on, here ...

When I was very young, I had a baby sitter that used to bring to N.O.W. rallies so, I was around for the early days of the "modern" feminist movement. The ladies at these rallies demanded equality and I still believe that that is an excellent thing.

Unfortunately, as ladies started finding out about twenty years ago, with freedom comes responsibility. I remember a couple of ladies finding out that spousal abuse wasn't only a male thing and it was a rude awakening for them. Ladies still aren't "forced" to go into combat situations in the military as men have been. So, we're not quite to "equality", yet.

When I was about 19 or twenty, I made between $10,000 and $15,000 per year. I lived alone. I had bills. I was in a band so a good portion of my "disposable" income went for equipment or studio time.

I wound up dating a young lady who had been very fortunate in life and was making about $60,000.

I asked Cheryl if she wanted to out on a Friday night. I asked, specifically, if she wanted to go out to an Italian place. She said "Yes". At the time, a night out at this place would have cost me between $40 and $50.

Friday night arrived and she called me and said my motorcycle wouldn't do; she would pick me up. I got in the car and we were not heading for my Italian joint. We wound up at a Mexican joint (I couldn't eat spicy, even back then). This was a newer, "trendy" place and the menu reflected that.

When it was time for the bill, the waitress placed it, face-up, between us (very diplomatic but not very classy of her). I looked at the bill which read: $84. I had brought $80 with me, prepared for the date that I had planned (which, I remind you, she knew about).

She looked at me and I looked at her and finally she said: "Well?" I replied "Well? What?"

She said: "You're kidding. Right?"

I said: "God bless Gloria Steinem!"

She paid and I felt no guilt, what-so-ever. I had asked her if she wanted to go to a specific place. She shot that whole plan all to hell. Essentially, when she drove to the other restaurant, she had negated everything that had gone, previously.

Would I even bother to walk into that restaurant, today? Nope. I would have done a lot of things, differently but the issue is: this lady was constantly talking about equality but didn't seem to want to assume equal responsibility.

That's just one issue.

There are plenty of us that just don't do doctors. For those that don't know: I suffer from an affliction that affects my physical abilities and will, eventually, kill me. I go to the doctor when I have to. No more. No less. In the time that I have left, I refuse to let my body make a liar out of me. Daily life is me, pushing myself to my limits and beyond just to enjoy a quality of life.

That's the "doctor"/health angle.

The current situation I find myself in is an interesting one. Life seems to have conspired to manipulate random chance in such a way that my lady and I, living together, made the most sense. I will admit that, at the time, my finances were pretty stable. In fact, I had enough money to last me the rest of my life. When it became apparent that I was going to be (sort of) rescuing her from an awful situation, we needed to have a sit-down.

I told her that I was only willing to pay expenses up to a certain point (I pay more than half of everything). She almost never pays for a meal out of the house. If she really wants to go out and I don't have the where-with-all, she pays (and happily, I might add).

I guess, the long and short of it is: If you want to mention "feminism" (which used to mean "equal rights") then, the opposite side of the "freedom" coin has to come into play.







Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

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A Stone in My Shoe

Screen captures (and pissing on shadows) still RULE! Ya feel me?

"For that which I love, I will do horrible things"

(in reply to charlottesubgirl)
Profile   Post #: 33
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