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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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It seems clear that, had the authorities responded differently and effectively when the problem was first identified, then much of the suffering could have been avoided,

That, at least, is clear. I'd be pretty hesitant about seeking out commonalities between the celebrity paedophile cases and those of the organised gangs in Rotherham, but two things do seem to emerge: firstly, the people concerned were 'protected' by a wall of 'don't touch - this will lead to trouble' and secondly, the authorities wanted a quiet life. There's a level of pure gutlessness involved, I think.

Indeed. Those at the top hate anyone rocking the boat. It has always been thus.

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Next year we have an election due, and not a single party seriously worth voting for.

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Well.... they can't fuck it up any more than the others. Can they??

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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Well.... they can't fuck it up any more than the others. Can they??

Yes.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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It seems clear that, had the authorities responded differently and effectively when the problem was first identified, then much of the suffering could have been avoided,

That, at least, is clear. I'd be pretty hesitant about seeking out commonalities between the celebrity paedophile cases and those of the organised gangs in Rotherham, but two things do seem to emerge: firstly, the people concerned were 'protected' by a wall of 'don't touch - this will lead to trouble' and secondly, the authorities wanted a quiet life. There's a level of pure gutlessness involved, I think.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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It seems clear that, had the authorities responded differently and effectively when the problem was first identified, then much of the suffering could have been avoided,

That, at least, is clear. I'd be pretty hesitant about seeking out commonalities between the celebrity paedophile cases and those of the organised gangs in Rotherham, but two things do seem to emerge: firstly, the people concerned were 'protected' by a wall of 'don't touch - this will lead to trouble' and secondly, the authorities wanted a quiet life. There's a level of pure gutlessness involved, I think.

Gutless, sure. But how much of that gutlessness came from being aware...as one of the guilty noted while defending and excoriating himself at the same time...that to go after the Pakistanis and Asians responsible would have outraged certain segments of the population and within government and cries of "racism" would have been howled and leveled? And in the case of the guilty parties, hidden behind.

Well put, and I think it's much nearer the truth than most would admit.
All too often we see the race card being used to defend certain actions.

I think half the problem is the fact that immigrants coming to this country (and many others) do not truly embrace the western way of living or the inherent personal/community/national values that most of us hold as an essential way of living within our society.
Religious aspects aside (because we usually embrace other religions), there are simple but fundamental aspects of cultural difference that can never be fully reconciled.

Some examples -
Muslims are able (and usually have) more than one legal wife. Our marriage laws don't allow that.
Muslims and several other religions treat women as possessions. Our equality laws don't allow that.
Muslim judicial process (Sharia law) is completely alien to the way our judicial system works.
Legal age for brides and/or sex in Muslim society is anathema to our western way of thinking.

Multi-culturism is all well and good *IF* those immigrants respect the laws and culture of the western society that they have chosen to live in. Unfortunately, a good proportion of them want to live their own way of life and cherry-pick the good bits from our western society that they gain advantage from that isn't available in their country of origin.
As much as we try to accommodate most of their religion and culture, there has to come a point where the line is firmly drawn and should not be moved.
Things such as underage sex/marriage, Sharia laws, multiple wives, honour killings, etc, are just not in any way acceptable behaviour in our culture.

It is apparent that a lot of the perpetrators in the Rotherham case(s) are of Pakistani (and probably Muslim) origins is quite clear and unfortunately for the majority of English people (not necessarily white), they are scared of a Muslim uprising bleating racism or laws against their religion and it's practices.

I think immigrants should declare some sort of oath to respect our laws, customs, and culture, on penalty of being instantly deported to their country of origin (or their parent's origin) regardless of whether it is safe or not.
As far as I'm concerned, if they can't respect our country and it's citizens, they have NO rights to be here at all.

South Yorkshire police have been caught out on a number of wrong-doings and cover-ups and those responsible should be processed to the full extent of the law.
The Rotherham fiasco is but one of many from recent decades - shamefully.
But... at least it is finally being sorted - we hope!!

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ORIGINAL: subrosaDom
I agree with much of what you say, but of course no amount of sorting will ever restore the innocence of the abused. I have no doubt you would agree. You can't change the past. The state should provide counseling to all the victims and ensure that there is no psychologist or social worker who talks to them about "respecting the differences in Muslim culture." And unless what you suggest is done instead of there being spineless obeisance to political correctness, it will happen again. Look at the "no-go" police zones in the suburbs of Paris.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: subrosaDom
I agree with much of what you say, but of course no amount of sorting will ever restore the innocence of the abused. I have no doubt you would agree. You can't change the past. The state should provide counseling to all the victims and ensure that there is no psychologist or social worker who talks to them about "respecting the differences in Muslim culture." And unless what you suggest is done instead of there being spineless obeisance to political correctness, it will happen again. Look at the "no-go" police zones in the suburbs of Paris.

Unfortunately, once the innocence is lost, it can never be recovered.
I think those that survived the ordeal have received quite a bit of counseling.

The problem is, all those do-gooders in the social services will inherently (by order from above) be forced to play on the "respect the differences in Muslim culture" because of political pressure and to not rock the Islamic boat.
Personally, I think all Muslims should be told categorically that underage sex, forced marriages, and honour killing will not be tolerated here.
Hope springs eternal. {sigh}

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The (liberal) love affair with multiculturalism rests on the notion that all cultures are in every way equal.
They are not.

The (liberal) love affair with hyper-tolerance of religion rests on the notion that all religions are in every way equal.
They are not.

I have been crying in the wilderness that Islam is inherently, dogmatically antithetical to Western values for years.
I have known others would drift towards my position over time.

There is a sizable faction of Islam that wants- no, demands- worldwide religious war.
And it will have it.

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ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

Rotherham is different. It is the sign of a decaying society lacking the balls to stand up to terror. It is the direct consequence of political correctness gone mad.

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The (liberal) love affair with multiculturalism rests on the notion that all cultures are in every way equal.
They are not.

The (liberal) love affair with hyper-tolerance of religion rests on the notion that all religions are in every way equal.
They are not.

I have been crying in the wilderness that Islam is inherently, dogmatically antithetical to Western values for years.
I have known others would drift towards my position over time.

There is a sizable faction of Islam that wants- no, demands- worldwide religious war.
And it will have it.

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ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

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ORIGINAL: subrosaDom
I agree with much of what you say, but of course no amount of sorting will ever restore the innocence of the abused. I have no doubt you would agree. You can't change the past. The state should provide counseling to all the victims and ensure that there is no psychologist or social worker who talks to them about "respecting the differences in Muslim culture." And unless what you suggest is done instead of there being spineless obeisance to political correctness, it will happen again. Look at the "no-go" police zones in the suburbs of Paris.

Unfortunately, once the innocence is lost, it can never be recovered.
I think those that survived the ordeal have received quite a bit of counseling.

The problem is, all those do-gooders in the social services will inherently (by order from above) be forced to play on the "respect the differences in Muslim culture" because of political pressure and to not rock the Islamic boat.
Personally, I think all Muslims should be told categorically that underage sex, forced marriages, and honour killing will not be tolerated here.
Hope springs eternal. {sigh}

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ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The (liberal) love affair with multiculturalism rests on the notion that all cultures are in every way equal.
They are not.

The (liberal) love affair with hyper-tolerance of religion rests on the notion that all religions are in every way equal.
They are not.

I have been crying in the wilderness that Islam is inherently, dogmatically antithetical to Western values for years.
I have known others would drift towards my position over time.

There is a sizable faction of Islam that wants- no, demands- worldwide religious war.
And it will have it.

The wilderness is indeed vast. I have been called most every name in the book by elite who consider my views troglodytic. That's not the problem of course. Their names won't hurt me but the Muslims' suicide bombs and creeping sharia will. Perhaps from the gross and almost ubiquitous appeasement there is starting to dawn on just a few that the problem is not radical Islam, but Islam itself.

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ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

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ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

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ORIGINAL: truckinslave

The (liberal) love affair with multiculturalism rests on the notion that all cultures are in every way equal.
They are not.

The (liberal) love affair with hyper-tolerance of religion rests on the notion that all religions are in every way equal.
They are not.

I have been crying in the wilderness that Islam is inherently, dogmatically antithetical to Western values for years.
I have known others would drift towards my position over time.

There is a sizable faction of Islam that wants- no, demands- worldwide religious war.
And it will have it.

The wilderness is indeed vast. I have been called most every name in the book by elite who consider my views troglodytic. That's not the problem of course. Their names won't hurt me but the Muslims' suicide bombs and creeping sharia will. Perhaps from the gross and almost ubiquitous appeasement there is starting to dawn on just a few that the problem is not radical Islam, but Islam itself.

Two "great" minds at work

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Ok. It seems posters here are leaning heavily to the term "grooming" which seems to have gained this connotation in a 2010 report. It's a nice way to weasel around the subject, and I'm not going to weasel around. This is about one thousand four hundred girls (plus?) who were raped over a period of 16 years, while the cops and child welfare agencies failed to act. Grooming... WTF? They weren't trimming ear hairs people, they were raping children, and passing them around for gang rape.

Outside of matters involving US foreign policy (and taking easy shots at the French), I pretty much keep my nose out of the business and internal affairs of other countries. If I want to rage about long term, institutionalized problems with bad cops, I can just talk Baca and LASD, and if the topic is children's welfare agencies that fail, I don't need to leave this valley to find a nightmare story. If we are talking about a situation where a "rapist" is considered less a concern than a "racist," we are going to need to go abroad.

Polite, you tell us here that you only shriek "racist" when you perceive it... Sure. And you perceive your devil the way the Church Lady did hers on SNL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U1Jv5JoxaM

Another crazy day today, but I did have chance to catch an editorial from The Guardian, declaring it was ludicrous to think the cops and family services agents were afraid of being labelled racist, that was just how they were trying to excuse their lazy, incompetent, dereliction of duty. Well, nothing to see here then, is there?

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

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ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Ok. It seems posters here are leaning heavily to the term "grooming" which seems to have gained this connotation in a 2010 report. It's a nice way to weasel around the subject, and I'm not going to weasel around. This is about one thousand four hundred girls (plus?) who were raped over a period of 16 years, while the cops and child welfare agencies failed to act. Grooming... WTF? They weren't trimming ear hairs people, they were raping children, and passing them around for gang rape.

Outside of matters involving US foreign policy (and taking easy shots at the French), I pretty much keep my nose out of the business and internal affairs of other countries. If I want to rage about long term, institutionalized problems with bad cops, I can just talk Baca and LASD, and if the topic is children's welfare agencies that fail, I don't need to leave this valley to find a nightmare story. If we are talking about a situation where a "rapist" is considered less a concern than a "racist," we are going to need to go abroad.

Polite, you tell us here that you only shriek "racist" when you perceive it... Sure. And you perceive your devil the way the Church Lady did hers on SNL. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8U1Jv5JoxaM

Another crazy day today, but I did have chance to catch an editorial from The Guardian, declaring it was ludicrous to think the cops and family services agents were afraid of being labelled racist, that was just how they were trying to excuse their lazy, incompetent, dereliction of duty. Well, nothing to see here then, is there?

Grooming is a new term Rich, abuse and rape have totally different meanings. Rape is sex without consent, that easy enough for anyone to understand, or at least one would like to think so. Grooming is different, it is where vulnerable young women, young girls and young boys are targeted in a specific way. They are befriended, made to feel that the abuser loves them, often by being plied with drink, drugs, gifts, and any combination of these. Once trust is gained, the abuse usually starts, and if you read the report, which you obviously didnt, you would have seen many of those abused dont even see it that way. They have now found a form of love which they didnt get from their family. Many of the girls involved refused to give evidence against an abuser seen as her "boyfriend".

So if you really want to start suggesting grooming is the same as rape, at least educate yourself a tad by reading the report.

You will note not one UK poster has claimed "nothing to see there then" so maybe if you stopped making shit up you would calm down a tad.

As I said when you mentioned Rotherham, so the same applies to my use of the word racist............Feel free to start a fucking thread on the issue, failing that, report it to the mods and I will take my chances..

I hope that helps......... PS53.