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RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 6:53:00 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		I have explained... if I have misunderstood Polite's post I will certainly and unreservedly apologise.

At the risk of repeating myself.... What I said was...

quote:

My understanding of what PS was saying, and he said it in the context of "grooming" is that some of the victims were so vulnerable and so effectively "groomed" that they felt they were in love with their abusers.

I did not understand his words to mean that that "love" was right or normal, or that it in any way excused the horrific acts of abuse that were perpetrated against them.


Then I said,,,
quote:


Now PS can clear it up simply by pointing out his intent, and if it turns out that his stance is that he does indeed believe that in some cases there was no abuse because the girls were in love with the people accused of abusing them then I will apologise to you both in spades, and join you in condemning the attitude.


So... Errmmm... I had already pretty much covered it, don't ya think?

In the meantime, if you think it's cool for someone to make a jokey comment about people taking girls home and abusing them, then rock on - Clearly our values are different

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 6:55:13 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

It does seem that you, and Aylee, have interpreted his words as some how seeking to down play the horridness of these acts by making an argument that these girls were in "love" and "consenting" to the abuse.


It's that that really flabbergasts me, Crazy. This has revolted the whole nation and we're walking around with bile in our mouths. I don't know whether we're looking at dogma amongst certain posters, here, or projection of dogma onto us. Maybe it's a shedload of both. Whatever. It's just frigging lunatic.

To those posters: seriously, do you think we're fine with what came up in Rotherham? That we'd just like to sweep it all away? What world do you live in, and what world do you think we live in, or want to live in?


No. I don't. What bothers me immensely is when certain posters in other threads rave on and on about "right-wing conservatives" or "Christian conservatives" who oppose gay marriage while failing to take into account Muslims who want to and do execute gays -- and the like.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 6:57:12 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Wow. Lower than that and you'd reach the centre of Earth.



And I'd still be looking down in disgust on people who proudly foster a climate where "accused racist" is worse than "child rapist."


Well, you'll have to take your place in a very fucking long queue... there are tens of millions of UK citizens who are looking down in disgust on people who proudly foster a climate where "accused racist" is worse than "child rapist."

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 6:58:15 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

In the meantime, if you think it's cool for someone to make a jokey comment about people taking girls home and abusing them, then rock on - Clearly our values are different


It's called satire, and I think it was perfectly in line with the crimes that were committed against these victims, and not nearly brutal enough for the excuse the cops and social workers offered.

If it's too much for your delicate sensibilities, there is a wading pool P&R forum in the casual banter section.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 6:59:18 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamysubmale

Sanity

In "Christian" countries, such acts are universally criminal while in many Islamic states the government carries out or condones many such deeds



quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: dreamysubmale
I don’t condone any terrorist acts or militant groups, but since I’m fair and balanced on my views have a look at his link bellow.

These Christian Al Qaeda militias in the Philippines are known to be more violent and vicious than any Islamist terrorist group that we know of, including IS. They are known to eat their killed enemy’s body parts as part of a ritual.

Oh, and last I looked, the Philippines was a predominantly Catholic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilaga



In this one case LucyLastic may be correct



Cherry picking? Not at all Sanity, i was merely trying to inform and educate you.



**EDIT -- This following is my comment, something got screwed up with the quotes above****
Abu Sayyef is the outlier. But they're there. As far as the Ilaga, it appears 1) they are revolting, disgusting and all worth of the death penalty -- I'm not going to excuse them; 2) some strange outlier aspect of Catholicism mixed with Eastern religions and certainly not given approbation by any other Christian group (unlike the Muslim hoardes who march in solidarity, as you all say with the worldwide "celebrations" of 9/11"; 3) they have very limited power and no meaningful expansionist impulses.

< Message edited by subrosaDom -- 8/30/2014 7:06:34 PM >

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to dreamysubmale)
Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:00:31 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Like I said.... our values our different.

I happen to think that making satirical comments about raping and abusing children is disgusting, and you don't.

I am sure you won't lose a moment's sleep over it, just as I will not be troubled by your different values.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:01:30 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I am going to assume that there's a big misunderstanding at play here, and that you're not being a nasty little shitbag.

The misunderstanding is either mine, or yours.

My understanding of what PS was saying, and he said it in the context of "grooming" is that some of the victims were so vulnerable and so effectively "groomed" that they felt they were in love with their abusers.

I did not understand his words to mean that that "love" was right or normal, or that it in any way excused the horrific acts of abuse that were perpetrated against them.

It does seem that you, and Aylee, have interpreted his words as some how seeking to down play the horridness of these acts by making an argument that these girls were in "love" and "consenting" to the abuse.

Now PS can clear it up simply by pointing out his intent, and if it turns out that his stance is that he does indeed believe that in some cases there was no abuse because the girls were in love with the people accused of abusing them then I will apologise to you both in spades, and join you in condemning the attitude.

That said... Aylee's comedy post still stands as one of the most disgusting things I have read on these boards.


Making a point with sarcasm doesn't make it comedy. If you can't see Aylee's post as having substantive content, then I suppose you wouldn't have thought Mark Twain. Moliere, Swift, Voltaire or H.L. Mencken had any substance, either, since they all used similar literary devices and figures of speech.


_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:01:38 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Well, I am not even getting into comparing American sex crimes Vs UK sex crimes



How about comparing the UK racism of giving people a pass on raping children because of the color of their skin, to the American racism you cast shrieking allegations of?



Wow. Lower than that and you'd reach the centre of Earth.

Sadly though, according to the article I linked earlier, it does appear that in some quarters that is what happened.

And it does seem strange that instead of condemning this racism and "culture-coddling", many are instead bringing up centuries-old Inquisition horrors or somehow making an analogy of Bush's actions as leader of the U.S. taking us to war to Muslim men raping and sharing young girls and drugging them.





(in reply to PeonForHer)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:02:51 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Well, I am not even getting into comparing American sex crimes Vs UK sex crimes



How about comparing the UK racism of giving people a pass on raping children because of the color of their skin, to the American racism you cast shrieking allegations of?



Wow. Lower than that and you'd reach the centre of Earth.

Sadly though, according to the article I linked earlier, it does appear that in some quarters that is what happened.

And it does seem strange that instead of condemning this racism and "culture-coddling", many are instead bringing up centuries-old Inquisition horrors or somehow making an analogy of Bush's actions as leader of the U.S. taking us to war to Muslim men raping and sharing young girls and drugging them.







Yes, because per Obama and the left, EVERYTHING is Bush's fault.


_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:03:56 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Sadly though, according to the article I linked earlier, it does appear that in some quarters that is what happened.

And it does seem strange that instead of condemning this racism and "culture-coddling", many are instead bringing up centuries-old Inquisition horrors or somehow making an analogy of Bush's actions as leader of the U.S. taking us to war to Muslim men raping and sharing young girls and drugging them.


Yes, shamefully it does seem as if that has played a role.

And let's hope that the authorities, and the people respond in an appropriate way.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:04:38 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Like I said.... our values our different.

I happen to think that making satirical comments about raping and abusing children is disgusting, and you don't.

I am sure you won't lose a moment's sleep over it, just as I will not be troubled by your different values.


The satirical comments were about the posters, not about the children. The difference is readily apparent. I don't see anyone, right or left, making jokes about the depredations foisted upon the children, but rather upon the attitudes and pusillanimity that led to the outrage in the first place.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:07:03 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Thanks, I'm familiar with sarcasm, satire, comedy etc.

And you can rest assured, if I came upon a sarcastic joke in Candide that made light of the abuse of children I'd be equally disgusted.

I do hope that puts your mind at rest.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to subrosaDom)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:08:23 PM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Thanks, I'm familiar with sarcasm, satire, comedy etc.

And you can rest assured, if I came upon a sarcastic joke in Candide that made light of the abuse of children I'd be equally disgusted.

I do hope that puts your mind at rest.


As would I. I personally detest people who make jokes about pedophiles in general. Makes my stomach turn. I did not see anything here of that ilk.

_____________________________

The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently.

- Nietzsche

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:10:50 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Actually, no. you are wrong.

The satirical comments were about the abuse I know that because of the words in the comments (handy eh!), I am well aware that the satire they were attempting was aimed at a poster (albeit based on what I believe to be a gross misunderstanding of the poster in question).



_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to subrosaDom)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:31:56 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Thanks, I'm familiar with sarcasm, satire, comedy etc.

And you can rest assured, if I came upon a sarcastic joke in Candide that made light of the abuse of children I'd be equally disgusted.

I do hope that puts your mind at rest.



And if I come upon a story that the police felt being accused of racism was worse than allowing one thousand-four hundred plus children to be raped, I will find terms and descriptions to match the vileness of that act. I'm sure you won't lose any more sleep over our different values than you will over a single one of those girls.

You're fucking right values are different. Aylee has some.

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 8/30/2014 7:32:40 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:36:45 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

As would I. I personally detest people who make jokes about pedophiles in general. Makes my stomach turn. I did not see anything here of that ilk.



I know some pretty good pedophile jokes, but I didn't see Aylee telling a joke that might get you punched. I saw her using brutal satire that was completely appropriate. Big difference.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to subrosaDom)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:41:03 PM   
thursdays


Posts: 143
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: offline 		[With apologies for doltishness]

< Message edited by thursdays -- 8/30/2014 8:27:55 PM >

_____________________________

Used to post as crazyml - might do again if I remember to login to that a/c.

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 7:44:18 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

My understanding of what PS was saying, and he said it in the context of "grooming" is that some of the victims were so vulnerable and so effectively "groomed" that they felt they were in love with their abusers.

That's what the report says. But that isn't what Politesub53 said. And to counter any (apparently continuing) misunderstandings, he has already made it clear that he meant exactly what he said exactly the way he said it.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4726494

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

It does seem that you, and Aylee, have interpreted his words as some how seeking to down play the horridness of these acts by making an argument that these girls were in "love" and "consenting" to the abuse.

I never said any such thing, though it doesn't seem an unreasonable deduction. But to counter any (apparently continuing) misunderstandings, I've made my position clear more than once, most thoroughly the second time.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4726553
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4726609

K.


< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/30/2014 8:09:44 PM >

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 8:22:09 PM   
crazyml


Posts: 5568
Joined: 7/3/2007
Status: offline 		Hmm,

OK... so are you saying that you agree that my statement:

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

My understanding of what PS was saying, and he said it in the context of "grooming" is that some of the victims were so vulnerable and so effectively "groomed" that they felt they were in love with their abusers.


Is a fair summary of the report?

Because, in that case we definitely have a misunderstanding on our hands, because that is precisely the meaning I drew from PS's actual words. Where I say "they felt they were in love" he says "found a form of love" but my sense is that the meaning is essentially the same.

In other words the summary I provided is essentially what I think he is saying. So it would make sense for him to say that he meant what he said. The issue lies in your (or my) interpretation of what he said.

If it is indeed the case that my interpretation is the right one how does that make him sick?

quote:


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

It does seem that you, and Aylee, have interpreted his words as some how seeking to down play the horridness of these acts by making an argument that these girls were in "love" and "consenting" to the abuse.

I never said any such thing, though it doesn't seem an unreasonable deduction. And to counter any (apparently continuing) misunderstandings, I've made my position clear twice, and most thoroughly the second time.

http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4726553
http://www.collarchat.com/fb.asp?m=4726609

K.


You did say "You are one sick motherfucker." which rather suggests that you might have some issues with it.

But as I said in an earlier post, it looks like PS simply needs to clarify, and if it turns out that your interpretation is closer to his intended meaning than mine, I will certainly apologise to you. Naturally if it turns out that your interpretation is flawed, it'll be entirely up to you what to do.

_____________________________

Remember.... There's always somewhere on the planet where it's jackass o'clock.

(in reply to Kirata)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Rotherham child abuse and the cover up - 8/30/2014 9:11:16 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Where I say "they felt they were in love" he says "found a form of love" but my sense is that the meaning is essentially the same...

You did say "You are one sick motherfucker." which rather suggests that you might have some issues with it.

There is a distinctly unsubtle difference to be drawn between finding love, and thinking that you're loved. The report does not equate the two, neither do I, and yes I have an issue with it.

K.



< Message edited by Kirata -- 8/30/2014 9:47:36 PM >

(in reply to crazyml)
Profile   Post #: 160
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