quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

This could very well be true, but then again, the "boogiemen" in question have generally been closer to Europe than the United States.

Zonie,

Not close enough to US politics to comment, but continental European countries have a long, dubious history of extreme politics.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Yes, I recall seeing a video from the American Conservative Union while I was in high school (presented by a retired Army general who served under MacArthur and helped liberate the Philippines). The hot issue of the time was Nicaragua and how they were going to take over Central America, then Mexico, then the United States. By some strange coincidence, the scenario envisioned by the ACU turned out to be used as the plot in the movie Red Dawn a few years later.

Reagan was on the tele with a map pointing out the impending doom, and the US Government set up a department for propaganda.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

It's illegal to be French in England?

Stop and search laws didn't do the trick so we were left with no option.

If any 'Islamic' type is reading this I think you need to start with the channel tunnel.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


In summary, because hate is wrong, you hate those who dislike the ideology that teaches its followers to tax, enslave or kill everyone who isn't of their ideology

So Islam teaches its adherents to "kill everyone who isn't of their ideology", or so Sanity assures us. One wonders how many Muslims carry out this religious obligation ....

There are c1.5 billion Muslims worldwide.
If just 1% of Muslims carried out this 'religious duty' on just one occasion every year, that would mean that c15, 000,000 'infidels' would die annually.
If just 1 Muslim in a million carried out their 'religious duty' just once per year, we could anticipate something like 1,500 infidels slaughtered annually for what Sanity describes as "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam".

I don't know exactly how many 'infidels' are slaughtered by Islamist extremists for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam" annually but I do know that it is certain to be in the region of 1,500 rather than 15 million. We do know that such killings only occur in isolated pockets of the Muslim world, which, significantly, are almost always the location of concurrent political turmoil.

These figures suggest that:
if there is an actual 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", it is ignored by more than 99.9% of the world's Muslims, and observed by something in the order of one Muslim in a million;
if there is an actual 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", this duty is only enforced in areas where there is concurrent political upheaval.

But the most obvious conclusion to draw from the above is that there is no 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", that this claim is hyperbolic rhetoric advanced by those with little or no understanding of Islam or its adherents. To put it simply in terms Sanity will understand, Sanity's claims have no basis in reality, they are total and absurd BS.

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

You keep speaking of these "millions of Muslims" against the terroristic Muslims. I can recall seeing one Muslim woman speak out against Islam and Sharia law and of course, there is S. Rushdie. Could you name some of these other Muslims? Or maybe their group names (s)? Since there's so many, there must be speeches or, at the very least, statements somewhere condemning their fellow Muslims.

Do you not know how Google works, thats hardly creative, is it.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-08-31/senior-british-muslims-publish-fatwa-against-islamic-state/

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2014/08/the-muslims-who-are-condemning-isis/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iraq/10943404/Most-Muslims-dont-care-about-the-Isis-Caliphate.html

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/muslim-cleric-in-kerala-issues-fatwa-against-isis/article6365856.ece

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/aug/26/muslims-against-isis-gather-michigan-pray-james-fo/

http://www.islamagainstextremism.com/

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/08/27/norways-muslims-rally-against-isis

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qasim-rashid/ramadan-message-isis_b_5611232.html

http://www.globalresearch.ca/muslim-leaders-worldwide-condemn-isis/5397364

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/isis-terror-threat-leading-british-muslims-issue-fatwa-condemning-terror-group-9702042.html

http://www.good4utah.com/story/d/story/utah-muslims-speak-out-against-isis-atrocities/39894/Swd5CbPzBk6tQheyKndBLw

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/junaid-jahangir/muslims-against-isis_b_5715563.html

http://www.calgaryherald.com/news/calgary/They+terrorists+must+punished+Calgary+imam+speaks+against/10137108/story.html

Read these and try and become more enlightened on the issue, hard as that is for you.

I have read some of it. I admit to some curiosity though why this condemnation is not being heralded by the left-leaning mainstream media.

Oh...and by the way, polite sub. Just because I don't agree with you on most things doesn't make me an idiot. As for being creative...well, much more so than you being polite.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

I think that it was almost 5000 dead bodies for August of this year.

How many since the angel Gabriel first visited Muhammad back in 610 C.E.?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

You're right. I don't personally know it as much as I sense it. When you see ignorance -- it has to have a root somewhere -- and in this case I see it developing from American provincialism and a lack of formal / informal education. Here's a prime example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRkWebP2Q0Y

I own a passport and library card, have traveled abroad, speak Russian as a second language. This doesn't make me an expert in anything, but one does develop a sense of good and bad information.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


In summary, because hate is wrong, you hate those who dislike the ideology that teaches its followers to tax, enslave or kill everyone who isn't of their ideology

So Islam teaches its adherents to "kill everyone who isn't of their ideology", or so Sanity assures us. One wonders how many Muslims carry out this religious obligation ....

There are c1.5 billion Muslims worldwide.
If just 1% of Muslims carried out this 'religious duty' on just one occasion every year, that would mean that c15, 000,000 'infidels' would die annually.
If just 1 Muslim in a million carried out their 'religious duty' just once per year, we could anticipate something like 1,500 infidels slaughtered annually for what Sanity describes as "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam".

I don't know exactly how many 'infidels' are slaughtered by Islamist extremists for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam" annually but I do know that it is certain to be in the region of 1,500 rather than 15 million. We do know that such killings only occur in isolated pockets of the Muslim world, which, significantly, are almost always the location of concurrent political turmoil.

These figures suggest that:
if there is an actual 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", it is ignored by more than 99.9% of the world's Muslims, and observed by something in the order of one Muslim in a million;
if there is an actual 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", this duty is only enforced in areas where there is concurrent political upheaval.

But the most obvious conclusion to draw from the above is that there is no 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", that this claim is hyperbolic rhetoric advanced by those with little or no understanding of Islam or its adherents. To put it simply in terms Sanity will understand, Sanity's claims have no basis in reality, they are total and absurd BS.

to this day I remember a night when I was a teenager, me and some friends were walking along and the bars were closing, a couple of guys were "escorting" AKA pushing a woman into a car she clearly didn't want to get in to. I said to my friends, shouldn't we do something? they all shook their heads and walked on, so did I. I don't know what happened to that woman, maybe the people putting her in that car were honestly helping her get home safe, maybe she was gang raped...

I do know this, at age 56 I still feel shame at not even yelling HEY leave that woman alone!

so 99.9% of muslems should feel SHAME at not at LEAST standing up and saying HEY STOP THAT!

one might rationalize that we were 4 stoned teenage boys against a bar full of drunk grown men and felt intimidated, but if we out numbered them. 99.9 to .01 our shame should be 99.9 times greater!

as for these people live in FEAR, I'll point out when they want to to topple a gov't, they show up by the 10's of thousands to speak up and participate

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


In summary, because hate is wrong, you hate those who dislike the ideology that teaches its followers to tax, enslave or kill everyone who isn't of their ideology

So Islam teaches its adherents to "kill everyone who isn't of their ideology", or so Sanity assures us. One wonders how many Muslims carry out this religious obligation ....

There are c1.5 billion Muslims worldwide.
If just 1% of Muslims carried out this 'religious duty' on just one occasion every year, that would mean that c15, 000,000 'infidels' would die annually.
If just 1 Muslim in a million carried out their 'religious duty' just once per year, we could anticipate something like 1,500 infidels slaughtered annually for what Sanity describes as "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam".

I don't know exactly how many 'infidels' are slaughtered by Islamist extremists for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam" annually but I do know that it is certain to be in the region of 1,500 rather than 15 million. We do know that such killings only occur in isolated pockets of the Muslim world, which, significantly, are almost always the location of concurrent political turmoil.

These figures suggest that:
if there is an actual 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", it is ignored by more than 99.9% of the world's Muslims, and observed by something in the order of one Muslim in a million;
if there is an actual 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", this duty is only enforced in areas where there is concurrent political upheaval.

But the most obvious conclusion to draw from the above is that there is no 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", that this claim is hyperbolic rhetoric advanced by those with little or no understanding of Islam or its adherents. To put it simply in terms Sanity will understand, Sanity's claims have no basis in reality, they are total and absurd BS.

to this day I remember a night when I was a teenager, me and some friends were walking along and the bars were closing, a couple of guys were "escorting" AKA pushing a woman into a car she clearly didn't want to get in to. I said to my friends, shouldn't we do something? they all shook their heads and walked on, so did I. I don't know what happened to that woman, maybe the people putting her in that car were honestly helping her get home safe, maybe she was gang raped...

I do know this, at age 56 I still feel shame at not even yelling HEY leave that woman alone!

so 99.9% of muslems should feel SHAME at not at LEAST standing up and saying HEY STOP THAT!

one might rationalize that we were 4 stoned teenage boys against a bar full of drunk grown men and felt intimidated, but if we out numbered them. 99.9 to .01 our shame should be 99.9 times greater!

as for these people live in FEAR, I'll point out when they want to to topple a gov't, they show up by the 10's of thousands to speak up and participate

What utter gibberish!

I'll put the case as simply as possible for you:

IF there is a religious obligation on Muslims to kill non-believers, then there would piles of corpses littering the world as 1.5 billion Muslims carried out their obligations. There are no piles of corpses killed by Muslims because of their disinclination to adopt Islam. Therefore either:
The world's Muslims are non-observant; or
There is no religious obligation on Muslims to kill non-believers.

If you or any one else wants to assert that there is a religious obligation on Muslims to kill non believers you will need to tell us where the piles of corpses are. Unless you are able to produce evidence in the form of piles of corpses, it is impossible to take the claim seriously other than as compelling evidence of rampant Islamophobia in those advancing such an idiotic, ignorant claim

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


In summary, because hate is wrong, you hate those who dislike the ideology that teaches its followers to tax, enslave or kill everyone who isn't of their ideology

So Islam teaches its adherents to "kill everyone who isn't of their ideology", or so Sanity assures us. One wonders how many Muslims carry out this religious obligation ....

There are c1.5 billion Muslims worldwide.
If just 1% of Muslims carried out this 'religious duty' on just one occasion every year, that would mean that c15, 000,000 'infidels' would die annually.
If just 1 Muslim in a million carried out their 'religious duty' just once per year, we could anticipate something like 1,500 infidels slaughtered annually for what Sanity describes as "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam".

I don't know exactly how many 'infidels' are slaughtered by Islamist extremists for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam" annually but I do know that it is certain to be in the region of 1,500 rather than 15 million. We do know that such killings only occur in isolated pockets of the Muslim world, which, significantly, are almost always the location of concurrent political turmoil.

These figures suggest that:
if there is an actual 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", it is ignored by more than 99.9% of the world's Muslims, and observed by something in the order of one Muslim in a million;
if there is an actual 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", this duty is only enforced in areas where there is concurrent political upheaval.

But the most obvious conclusion to draw from the above is that there is no 'religious duty' to kill infidels for "the fatal sin of failing to convert to Islam", that this claim is hyperbolic rhetoric advanced by those with little or no understanding of Islam or its adherents. To put it simply in terms Sanity will understand, Sanity's claims have no basis in reality, they are total and absurd BS.

to this day I remember a night when I was a teenager, me and some friends were walking along and the bars were closing, a couple of guys were "escorting" AKA pushing a woman into a car she clearly didn't want to get in to. I said to my friends, shouldn't we do something? they all shook their heads and walked on, so did I. I don't know what happened to that woman, maybe the people putting her in that car were honestly helping her get home safe, maybe she was gang raped...

I do know this, at age 56 I still feel shame at not even yelling HEY leave that woman alone!

so 99.9% of muslems should feel SHAME at not at LEAST standing up and saying HEY STOP THAT!

one might rationalize that we were 4 stoned teenage boys against a bar full of drunk grown men and felt intimidated, but if we out numbered them. 99.9 to .01 our shame should be 99.9 times greater!

as for these people live in FEAR, I'll point out when they want to to topple a gov't, they show up by the 10's of thousands to speak up and participate

What utter gibberish!

I'll put the case as simply as possible for you:

IF there is a religious obligation on Muslims to kill non-believers, then there would piles of corpses littering the world as 1.5 billion Muslims carried out their obligations. There are no piles of corpses killed by Muslims because of their disinclination to adopt Islam. Therefore either:
The world's Muslims are non-observant; or
There is no religious obligation on Muslims to kill non-believers.

If you or any one else wants to assert that there is a religious obligation on Muslims to kill non believers you will need to tell us where the piles of corpses are. Unless you are able to produce evidence in the form of piles of corpses, it is impossible to take the claim seriously other than as compelling evidence of rampant Islamophobia in those advancing such an idiotic, ignorant claim

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitYakin

quote:

tweakabelle

IF there is a religious obligation on Muslims to kill non-believers, then there would piles of corpses littering the world as 1.5 billion Muslims carried out their obligations. There are no piles of corpses killed by Muslims because of their disinclination to adopt Islam. Therefore either:
The world's Muslims are non-observant; or
There is no religious obligation on Muslims to kill non-believers.

If you or any one else wants to assert that there is a religious obligation on Muslims to kill non believers you will need to tell us where the piles of corpses are. Unless you are able to produce evidence in the form of piles of corpses, it is impossible to take the claim seriously other than as compelling evidence of rampant Islamophobia in those advancing such an idiotic, ignorant claim

The first problem with this question is that there are, in fact, several Muslim groups in the world whose followers seem to believe that their religious beliefs give them a clear mandate to kill non-believers. Maybe you don't get world news in that backwards ass country you live in...

quote:

The second problem is that, as it turns out, there actually IS a pile of bodies representing the victims of Islam. The vast majority of them are other Muslims though, and the world seems to be sort of okay with that as long as it doesn't screw up someone else's political machinations.

This is an interesting read. J[....] If you don't want to wade through the article, this is the relvant passage.

As an ideology in the 20th century, only Communism, with its murder and mass killings, are responsible for more deaths and violence than is Islam.

quote:

As for what is written in the Quran and Hadith.... There are, in fact, mandates to kill non-believers in both. Both are also clear to state that not all Muslims are called to kill in the name of Allah. Denying these passages exist and are being used to incite extremists is pure foolishness.
-SD-

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These groups cannot be considered as representative of Islam. That would be akin to asserting that the IRA is representative of Christians worldwide or that the KKK's views are representative of whites' views - clearly spurious claims.

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Afghans were probably better off under communism, back then known as the NORTHERN ALLIANCE. (The same guys we funded to oust the Taliban.) See the circle?

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

quote:

These groups cannot be considered as representative of Islam. That would be akin to asserting that the IRA is representative of Christians worldwide or that the KKK's views are representative of whites' views - clearly spurious claims.

Good comparisons. One thing that I've been reading about terrorist threats is that you have to keep a cool head. Hysteria, overreacting, or IDing the wrong targets are all bad outcomes. Luckily, Obama is taking a deliberate approach.

Regarding ISIS --- the question is how do you fight them and who do you support. For instance supporting Maliki empowered the Shiites and IRAN and lead to disaffected SUNNIs and ISIS.

Many US steps to "end terrorism" have pretty much gone in circles. Arguably, too, Reagan created the hornets nest of Jihadis by encouraging them back in the days we considered them "freedom fighters."

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ORIGINAL: Zonie63


True enough, although I think continental Europeans have seemed a bit gun shy since 1945. They're not at center stage like they used to be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

Yes, I recall seeing a video from the American Conservative Union while I was in high school (presented by a retired Army general who served under MacArthur and helped liberate the Philippines). The hot issue of the time was Nicaragua and how they were going to take over Central America, then Mexico, then the United States. By some strange coincidence, the scenario envisioned by the ACU turned out to be used as the plot in the movie Red Dawn a few years later.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zonie63

I suppose this points up some advantages of living on an island. The two-ocean buffer that we've enjoyed here in the U.S. isn't as much of a cushion as it used to be.