SadistDave
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ORIGINAL: tweakabelle
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ORIGINAL: BitYakin
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tweakabelle
IF there is a religious obligation on Muslims to kill non-believers, then there would piles of corpses littering the world as 1.5 billion Muslims carried out their obligations. There are no piles of corpses killed by Muslims because of their disinclination to adopt Islam. Therefore either:
The world's Muslims are non-observant; or
There is no religious obligation on Muslims to kill non-believers.
If you or any one else wants to assert that there is a religious obligation on Muslims to kill non believers you will need to tell us where the piles of corpses are. Unless you are able to produce evidence in the form of piles of corpses, it is impossible to take the claim seriously other than as compelling evidence of rampant Islamophobia in those advancing such an idiotic, ignorant claim
The first problem with this question is that there are, in fact, several Muslim groups in the world whose followers seem to believe that their religious beliefs give them a clear mandate to kill non-believers. Maybe you don't get world news in that backwards ass country you live in...
Yes there are one or two groups who make that claim. Their numbers are minute compared to the one and half billion followers of Islam worldwide. This is why I used the figure of 99.9% instead of 100%. These groups also operate in areas of intense and violent political strife. It is arguable that the origins of their violence lies in the political and not the religious realm. They are rejected by almost all Muslims except those in the areas affected by political strife. In those areas (eg NW Iraq ) the support they receive from local Muslims is primarily motivated by political expediency, not religious affiliation.
These groups cannot be considered as representative of Islam. That would be akin to asserting that the IRA is representative of Christians worldwide or that the KKK's views are representative of whites' views - clearly spurious claims. Many mainstream Muslims argue that these groups' interpretation of Islam is so extreme and rigid that it has long since ceased to be Islamic and is of another nature entirely. While these inane spurious claims may be swallowed mindlessly by credulous rednecks whatever backwoods you operate in, no one with any credibility argues that groups such as IS are anything but the tiniest, most extreme of minorities occupying a lonely place on the very far and distant fringes of Islam.
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The second problem is that, as it turns out, there actually IS a pile of bodies representing the victims of Islam. The vast majority of them are other Muslims though, and the world seems to be sort of okay with that as long as it doesn't screw up someone else's political machinations.
This is an interesting read. J[....] If you don't want to wade through the article, this is the relvant passage.
As an ideology in the 20th century, only Communism, with its murder and mass killings, are responsible for more deaths and violence than is Islam.
Your argument is built on a claim that is clearly and demonstrably incorrect. It is simply untrue to claim that:
"As an ideology in the 20th century, only Communism, with its murder and mass killings, are responsible for more deaths and violence than is Islam
Fascism, and especially German Fascism (akaNazism) with total responsibility for World War II's tally of c55 million deaths is far and away the most murderous of the 20th century's ideologies. Perhaps your gullible acceptance and mindless repetition of basic errors of fact is why your views are so ill-informed and bear such little relationship to the realities of life in today's Islamic world.
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As for what is written in the Quran and Hadith.... There are, in fact, mandates to kill non-believers in both. Both are also clear to state that not all Muslims are called to kill in the name of Allah. Denying these passages exist and are being used to incite extremists is pure foolishness.
-SD-
White South Africans used to quote certain passages of the Bible which they claimed authorised apartheid. The Bible authorises selling off your daughters as sex slaves and genocide in certain passages. No one with a functioning brain would argue that selling daughters off as sex slaves or genocide are pillars of the Christian faith. Yet people make such claims about Islam and expect them to be taken seriously. It's possible to trawl through any religious text and come up with quotes that can justify almost anything ... !
What counts is what happens in the real world, what people do in their everyday lives. It is impossible to contest, on a factual or rational basis, that the overwhelming majority of Muslims in today's world do not subscribe to killing non-believers solely because of their alleged infidelity. If they did we would be seeing millions of dead non-believers across the globe. We don't see these piles of corpses across the globe. Why? Because at the end of the day Muslims are not that different to any of us - they just want to get on with their lives, support their families and loved ones, and live in peace.
I'm going to start with the most obvious bit of stupidity. The Nazi's were absolutely not responsible for all of the deaths in WW2. I know there has to be a history book somewhere on that ridiculous island you live on. You might want to try finding it and reading it.
Here's a spoiler: There were 3 primary partners and about 20 minor members of an outfit known as the "Axis". The 3 core members had distinctly different reasons for their aggression. Being from Australia, I'd have thought they might have taught you about the Pacific theater of WW2, which had not one fucking thing to do with the war in Europe. I don't know where you're getting 55 million as a death toll for WW2, and I don't really care. The Pacific War Online Encyclopedia cites 70 million deaths as a result of WW2, with over half of the death toll occurring in the Pacific Theater. Lets call it an even 50% for simplicity and call it 35 million deaths we can blame on the Nazis.
The lowest estimate I've seen for Communist mass murder in the 20th century is 70 million. Wikipedia cites between 85 and 100 million. Clearly, Hitler was a piker.
But that brings us to Islam and 100 years of mass murder in the 20th Century. By the time you add up the mass murders and genocides attributed to Islam in various wars and acts of genocide, the number is staggering. Muslims started the 20th Century in the middle of an ongoing genocide. Between 1897 and 1922 the Ottoman Empire under Islamic rule killed some 3.5 million Christians in Asia Minor. Between 1904 and 1915 1.3 million people were slaughtered in Armenia alone. Hitler claimed it was his model for the Holocaust. I have no doubt that if you add up the varied and sundry genocides, honor killings, war casualties, and terror victims of the world wide Islamic Regimes between 1900 and 1999, the total will be considerably more than 35 million. 3000 people here.... 500k there... a cool million over there... these things add up over the course of a century.
I'm really not sure what your point is about slavery, considering the largest ongoing slave trade today is perpetrated by Islam in North Africa. Whining about sex slavery in the Bible is pretty poorly timed too,considering the recent events in Rotherham by Islamic rape gangs, and the fact that sexual slavery is condoned in the Quran as well as the Bible.
The primary disconnect here seems to be your inability to come to grips with the fact that Christians are no longer running slave trades in the 21st Century. Nor are they using their religion as an excuse to rape little girls like Muslims have done in Britain, Canada, France, Switzerland, the U.S. and (you guessed it) fucking Australia. But then, unlike the Prophet Muhammad, Jesus Christ was neither a slave trader or a pedophile.
Whether or not these people are "representative" of Islam is wholly irrelevant. What IS relevant is that unlike any other dominant religion in the world, these people keep cropping up to commit atrocities of all kinds over and over and over again. Meanwhile Islamic apologists like you, Politesub, and a few other loony liberals here seem to be unable to grasp the simple fact that there is something fundamentally wrong with a religion that is literally operating under Medieval laws and principles in the 21st Century.
-SD-
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To whom it may concern: Just because someone is in a position of authority they do not get to make up their own facts. In spite of what some people here (who shall remain nameless) want to claim, someone over the age of 18 is NOT a fucking minor!
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