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[Poll]

Should Terrorism Be Censored?


Yes. We don't need to see that.
  12% (3)
No, we have every right to be fully aware of these things.
  44% (11)
It can't possibly matter either way, can it?
  4% (1)
Yes, deny terrorists their fame.
  40% (10)


Total Votes : 25
(last vote on : 9/11/2014 1:54:21 PM)
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RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/3/2014 8:18:57 PM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kkaliforniaa

"The family of the victim have a right to keep that private"

That is a good point, but there is an easier way to censor things without anyone taking sides. If you don't want to know about something, put your head in the sand.. Okay, not literally, but if you aren't interested in which celebutantes are the latest to have nude selfies hacked, then don't watch Entertainment Tonight [or similar media] If you're not interested in which athletes are being arrested for whatever, don't read sports articles. Etc. If you are interested in what is happening in the Middle East, then go ahead, read about it. Just be careful not to talk openly about what you have read, unless you know the person you're talking with shares an interest

Ehh.. I think "free enterprise" doesn't exist the way it was meant to.. I mean look at restaurants and bars. They can get in trouble if they cook with trans fats, or serve hard liquor after a certain time, etc.. .. It's one thing to regulate restaurants so they are clean, but if people want to eat something like one of those "heart attack" burgers, then a person should be allowed to, while being informed of the risks.. .. In New York, there is the whole issue with selling soda!..

so if it was your father, brother or son that had been beheaded you wouldn't have any problem with the world watching someone you dearly loved being murdered over and over and over again on tv or on youtube, etc?

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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/3/2014 8:51:13 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		To some degree though, shouldn't we know exactly who ISIS is? Where should the line be drawn with this sort of thing. And who should decide for us what we can see, or what we cannot see?

It might be different if they were innocent babes in the wood or something like that but these grown men deliberately placed themselves in harms way. They chose the spotlight in the danger zone, that was their whole point in going there. Be it NASCAR or pro rodeo or a reporter in this case a war zone, the participants know full well that cameras are rolling and shit happens all the time.

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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/3/2014 8:54:15 PM   
kkaliforniaa


Posts: 263
Joined: 3/10/2007
Status: offline 		sd;jghs;jnbd;jb ae;tjhnbe;routyhe;ro!! My post didn't go through!!

Last time I checked, once something is online, it's nearly impossible for it to be removed.. People may not have made copies, but they still will have seen it.. Yeah, it would suck, majorly, but it could help catch the people who committed such an act.. Maybe not from anything seen in the video, but how many people really want others out there committing such heinous crimes?! Factor in the support people may have over seeing something like this. Total strangers sending their well wishes and all that, it could help get through the tough times, even if I never meet these strangers.. Just the kindness that is shown can be enough

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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/3/2014 9:04:59 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

To some degree though, shouldn't we know exactly who ISIS is?

Of course. How would watching the video expand our knowledge?

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/3/2014 9:07:09 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR

I see no reason to allow our enemies in a war to have access to the technology and mass communication capabilities created by the culture they seek to destroy.

I wonder if Anonymous would have the balls to go hacking ISIS? Maybe some nice photoshops of Osama bin Laden in drag on their home page?



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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/3/2014 9:13:26 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

To some degree though, shouldn't we know exactly who ISIS is?

Of course. How would watching the video expand our knowledge?


I am still not sure what is best here, I am seriously conflicted.

On one hand, taking away their exposure lowers their profile and eliminates some of the "reward" for their acts, and prohibits their using the grisly acts as recruitment tools

However, by having access to them the video allows the rest of the world to witness their malevolence and better understand who is assuming control where they are assuming control

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/3/2014 9:23:59 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

FR

I see no reason to allow our enemies in a war to have access to the technology and mass communication capabilities created by the culture they seek to destroy.

I wonder if Anonymous would have the balls to go hacking ISIS? Maybe some nice photoshops of Osama bin Laden in drag on their home page?




The thing that worries me the most is the precedent. Having such a tech giant consortium so broadly censor the Internet over mere violence rubs me the wrong way, primarily because you have to wonder what is next. Sites like this one, perhaps?

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/3/2014 9:41:13 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		Maybe you have somehow missed it, Sanity, but this site gets pretty heavily censored sometimes, and the free speech of participants can be taken away from them for months at a time. (I'm really not sure how you could have missed that).

The internet is a battlefield in this war, and I am not a pacifist.


_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/3/2014 10:50:36 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline 		Looking a little closer, its social media, especially YouTube accounts that were suspended, which thats acceptable to me

Some things need to be reigned in, sure

But I am for as much openness as possible, and prefer to be the one to decide what I can see

Like I posted earlier I am conflicted

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 1:31:00 AM   
tweakabelle


Posts: 7522
Joined: 10/16/2007
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		Censoring repugnant groups such as IS will only make them more attractive to those at risk of radicalisation. Much as I abhor their message, people should be able to decide for themselves whether they wish to listen to it or not.

Political censorship is a very dangerous concept to adopt for any reason. Who decides what is viewable and what isn't? What is their (the censor's) agenda?

_____________________________



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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 1:32:17 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The fact remains many of those who turn to terrorism do so because of what they can see on the Internet.

Those who moan about freedom of speech are the first to shout "your not American why are you posting" They are also the first to moan when young men and women have turned to terrorism due to the influence of the web. I am pretty sure they would also piss and moan if other offensive material was freely available to view. terrorism needs to be stopped and if starving groups like ISIS of free publicity means censorship of sorts, so be it. Rather that than having to stick boots on the ground.








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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 1:36:53 AM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Tweakable...... I dont agree with you, many right thinking people wont agree either. Would you want your own kids to view such stuff, I am pretty sure I dont.

Teenagers and the vunerable are clearly not in a position to decide whats right and wrong to look at on the net. Links to vile videos of all sorts are often emailed to classmates etc. The evidence is there for all to see.

While I fully get the point about censorship in general, in some circumstances it is fully justified, and rightly so.

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 1:44:31 AM   
subrosaDom


Posts: 724
Joined: 2/16/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444


quote:

ORIGINAL: kkaliforniaa

"The family of the victim have a right to keep that private"

That is a good point, but there is an easier way to censor things without anyone taking sides. If you don't want to know about something, put your head in the sand.. Okay, not literally, but if you aren't interested in which celebutantes are the latest to have nude selfies hacked, then don't watch Entertainment Tonight [or similar media] If you're not interested in which athletes are being arrested for whatever, don't read sports articles. Etc. If you are interested in what is happening in the Middle East, then go ahead, read about it. Just be careful not to talk openly about what you have read, unless you know the person you're talking with shares an interest

Ehh.. I think "free enterprise" doesn't exist the way it was meant to.. I mean look at restaurants and bars. They can get in trouble if they cook with trans fats, or serve hard liquor after a certain time, etc.. .. It's one thing to regulate restaurants so they are clean, but if people want to eat something like one of those "heart attack" burgers, then a person should be allowed to, while being informed of the risks.. .. In New York, there is the whole issue with selling soda!..

so if it was your father, brother or son that had been beheaded you wouldn't have any problem with the world watching someone you dearly loved being murdered over and over and over again on tv or on youtube, etc?


This is very difficult. Because people don't understand what evil is unless they can see it. How many people actually KNOW what goes in in North Korea's Gulag 22, for example? People joke about Kim Jong-un (and -il before him), but how many know the monstrosities? How many have ever read an HRW or Amnesty report on them or a book by an escapee? Now, imagine if a US President (ANY President -- Clinton, Bush, Obama) went on TV and explained what actually happened, how entire families, including children were imprisoned for life, tortured, starved, how they lucky get to eat rats and those caught are beaten or executed, how mothers who give birth watch their baby slaughtered in front of them and are themselves slaughtered if they display any emotion. So the evil is minimized. People think the Kims are a joke, a laughingstock. They barely know more than Dennis Rodman and this monstrous evil is right here in our midst. Now imagine instead if hundreds of millions of people knew and were repelled by this, as almost all certainly would be.

The same is true for ISIS. Yes, if your loved ones, it's horrible. But to hide what has happened or is happening is to make turn X-rated violence (not sex, just for pure horror and violence) into PG. And so people don't pay attention. The same thing happened with 9/11. If every American and every Brit and every European had to watch the planes going into the WTC and the people jumping out the windows to their death -- and had to watch this every year, do you think the complacency in the face of evil would be so great? The whole idea beyond stopping Holocaust Deniers is "never forget." And if it weren't for the photographs and the videos, how could we prove the Deniers are liars? It does no good to have these in an archive. Horrible though it is to have evil on display, it is more horrible when it is hidden because then no gives a damn and evil triumphs.


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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 1:48:16 AM   
s4MC


Posts: 8
Joined: 9/2/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Censoring repugnant groups such as IS will only make them more attractive to those at risk of radicalisation. Much as I abhor their message, people should be able to decide for themselves whether they wish to listen to it or not.

Political censorship is a very dangerous concept to adopt for any reason. Who decides what is viewable and what isn't? What is their (the censor's) agenda?



I would say showing beheadings would be far more attractive to psychos than simply giving the information in written form. Also the information itself is not being censored, only the images. Whether it's beheadings, rape, child pornography or any other heinous crime, what value, or improvement of understanding, does a "normal" person get from watching that they don't get from the information alone? I see no value in showing the acts themselves, and no one has made a valid argument to do so. People are caught up in the theory of censorship, even though no actual information is being censored, without giving any rationalisation for making the images available.

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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 3:32:34 AM   
SadistDave


Posts: 801
Joined: 3/11/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: s4MC


quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Censoring repugnant groups such as IS will only make them more attractive to those at risk of radicalisation. Much as I abhor their message, people should be able to decide for themselves whether they wish to listen to it or not.

Political censorship is a very dangerous concept to adopt for any reason. Who decides what is viewable and what isn't? What is their (the censor's) agenda?



I would say showing beheadings would be far more attractive to psychos than simply giving the information in written form. Also the information itself is not being censored, only the images. Whether it's beheadings, rape, child pornography or any other heinous crime, what value, or improvement of understanding, does a "normal" person get from watching that they don't get from the information alone? I see no value in showing the acts themselves, and no one has made a valid argument to do so. People are caught up in the theory of censorship, even though no actual information is being censored, without giving any rationalisation for making the images available.


The benefit in censoring these things is pretty clear though. It keeps people uninvolved.

It is one thing to THINK you know what it means to be beheaded, or raped, or beaten to a pulp. It is quite another to actually witness these things. Seeing them actually happen with full knowledge that what you are watching is really happening has a tendency to elicit more of an emotional response than when it's a plot point in a film. When you go to a driving class they could easily tell you the consequences of driving recklessly, but they are fully aware that seeing someones body strewn down 20 yards of highway with the knowledge that what they are showing is in fact a real person induces an emotional reaction in many people that leaves a more lasting impression than simply telling them that seat belts save lives.

Imagine what might happen if 10% of the gun owners in America had an unpredictably violent reaction to a news story. Do you think the government is prepared for the abrupt and permanent decline in the Muslim population, the ensuing confrontations with police, or the following race riots that might (MIGHT) be the result of watching a jihadist actually behead an American journalist on the news every 20 minutes on the news? Personally, I don't think they want to even play with the possibility...

I'm not a fan of censorship, but I understand it as a method of control. As much as I personally believe people should not be subject to censorship, I also personally believe that it's probably best if most people don't have a clue about some of the things that happen around them every day. I think if the news went completely uncensored for a month half the world would suicide out of despair. No one wants to be the guy responsible for that kind of thing.

-SD-

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RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 5:43:19 AM   
thishereboi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

I can't imagine why anyone would want to watch it let alone link to it.


Let me ask in another way. Do you think its a little bit scary that these giant tech corporations have the ability and the desire to shield our eyes from certain realities, as if we are little children?









No, not really.

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 5:46:45 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: kkaliforniaa
Ehh.. I think "free enterprise" doesn't exist the way it was meant to.. I mean look at restaurants and bars. They can get in trouble if they cook with trans fats, or serve hard liquor after a certain time, etc.. .. It's one thing to regulate restaurants so they are clean, but if people want to eat something like one of those "heart attack" burgers, then a person should be allowed to, while being informed of the risks.. .. In New York, there is the whole issue with selling soda!..

You've been reading too many lunatics. There is no ban on trans fats or soda.



In that case you better let CNN know because they think there was...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/16/health/nyc-fat-ban-paying-off/

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 5:58:05 AM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

To some degree though, shouldn't we know exactly who ISIS is? Where should the line be drawn with this sort of thing. And who should decide for us what we can see, or what we cannot see?


They can tell us who ISIS is and what they are doing without releasing the video. I never saw the clip of the first guy getting his head cut off, yet I still understood what had happened and was able to read all the reports on it.

quote:



It might be different if they were innocent babes in the wood or something like that but these grown men deliberately placed themselves in harms way. They chose the spotlight in the danger zone, that was their whole point in going there. Be it NASCAR or pro rodeo or a reporter in this case a war zone, the participants know full well that cameras are rolling and shit happens all the time.


That's right. They stayed knowing the danger so YOU could be educated on who ISIS is and what they are doing. Which is what you claimed you wanted in the first part of the post. But I guess that wasn't good enough. You want to see them die also?


_____________________________

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This here is the boi formerly known as orfunboi


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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 6:07:29 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

That's right. They stayed knowing the danger so YOU could be educated on who ISIS is and what they are doing. Which is what you claimed you wanted in the first part of the post. But I guess that wasn't good enough. You want to see them die also?



They stayed for the adrenalin rushes, and so they would have some great war stories to tell.

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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Should Terrorism Be Censored? - 9/4/2014 6:15:45 AM   
tj444


Posts: 7574
Joined: 3/7/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kkaliforniaa

sd;jghs;jnbd;jb ae;tjhnbe;routyhe;ro!! My post didn't go through!!

Last time I checked, once something is online, it's nearly impossible for it to be removed.. People may not have made copies, but they still will have seen it.. Yeah, it would suck, majorly, but it could help catch the people who committed such an act.. Maybe not from anything seen in the video, but how many people really want others out there committing such heinous crimes?! Factor in the support people may have over seeing something like this. Total strangers sending their well wishes and all that, it could help get through the tough times, even if I never meet these strangers.. Just the kindness that is shown can be enough

There are companies that specialize in taking down crap on the internet, the family of the young girl whose pics were put online by the cops had to hire such a firm.. it cost them money, it took time, but at least most of those horrible pics were removed.. and they took those responsible for the release of the photos to court and those idjoits paid..

_____________________________

As Anderson Cooper said “If he (Trump) took a dump on his desk, you would defend it”

(in reply to kkaliforniaa)
Profile   Post #: 40
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