quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

The real problems in the area are still Iran, Syria, and behind them both, Russia.

ISIS is a complication intertwined with that. If if were just ISIS, they wouldn't even be JV. Vicious, yes. But hardly a major military power.

It's the complications that are governing the caution, not ISIS itself. Even Henry Kissinger, the Cambodian Bomber, is urging caution.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I'll grant that the Christian Fundamentalists aren't quite as lethal as the Muslim version but that is largely due to society preventing the Christians from torturing and burning sinners anymore.

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A society built by the very Christians you hate so much.
Quite as lethal?
That is like saying that a rabbit isn't quite as lethal as a tiger.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

I'll grant that the Christian Fundamentalists aren't quite as lethal as the Muslim version but that is largely due to society preventing the Christians from torturing and burning sinners anymore.

================================================

A society built by the very Christians you hate so much.
Quite as lethal?
That is like saying that a rabbit isn't quite as lethal as a tiger.

I was thinking the goldfish.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

If I am reading between the sarcasm correctly your point is:

So some people around the world treat women even worse than conservative Christians do here in the U.S, therefore, we should not be upset over their (conservative Christians) constant attempts to restrict the rights of women here?

Why?

Just because some people are more evil than others, why should we ignore the lesser evils? Especially if they are closer to home?

How does ignoring the victims of Christians in any way help the victims of Muslims?

quote:

Generally, I have a certain respect for your posts, Marc, even when we wildly disagree. Here, I have no idea what the fuck you are on about. Forget century, these are matters that aren't from the same millennium.

The "war on women" was and remains the campaign slogan of a particular party in the US that knows they are failing, and trying to hide behind some other distraction, with a willing media to push their agenda. If you feel like standing out in front of a pharmacy, and buying morning after pills for the disadvantaged, go have fun. Nobody here is going to behead you for that.

What other atrocities of these people are you going to get all morally equivalent over? Is genocide something we can't talk about because of the higher rate of abortion among blacks? No difference between a death penalty in Texas and a beheading on Youtube?

I find a sense of scale and perspective missing, where I would normally expect to find it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Generally, I have a certain respect for your posts, Marc, even when we wildly disagree. Here, I have no idea what the fuck you are on about. Forget century, these are matters that aren't from the same millennium.

The "war on women" was and remains the campaign slogan of a particular party in the US that knows they are failing, and trying to hide behind some other distraction, with a willing media to push their agenda. If you feel like standing out in front of a pharmacy, and buying morning after pills for the disadvantaged, go have fun. Nobody here is going to behead you for that.

What other atrocities of these people are you going to get all morally equivalent over? Is genocide something we can't talk about because of the higher rate of abortion among blacks? No difference between a death penalty in Texas and a beheading on Youtube?

I find a sense of scale and perspective missing, where I would normally expect to find it.

I am not making a moral equivalency. I am saying that the lack of moral equivalency should not be a reason for not addressing the lesser evil. If I were to punch you in the nose would you think to yourself (as the blood drips down your shirt) that you should not object to my pugilism because others in the world are being murdered?

quote:

Well of course not, Marc, but neither am I going to feel that experience as somehow relevant to ISIS executing POW's.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Generally, I have a certain respect for your posts, Marc, even when we wildly disagree. Here, I have no idea what the fuck you are on about. Forget century, these are matters that aren't from the same millennium.

The "war on women" was and remains the campaign slogan of a particular party in the US that knows they are failing, and trying to hide behind some other distraction, with a willing media to push their agenda. If you feel like standing out in front of a pharmacy, and buying morning after pills for the disadvantaged, go have fun. Nobody here is going to behead you for that.

What other atrocities of these people are you going to get all morally equivalent over? Is genocide something we can't talk about because of the higher rate of abortion among blacks? No difference between a death penalty in Texas and a beheading on Youtube?

I find a sense of scale and perspective missing, where I would normally expect to find it.

I am not making a moral equivalency. I am saying that the lack of moral equivalency should not be a reason for not addressing the lesser evil. If I were to punch you in the nose would you think to yourself (as the blood drips down your shirt) that you should not object to my pugilism because others in the world are being murdered?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

quote:

Well of course not, Marc, but neither am I going to feel that experience as somehow relevant to ISIS executing POW's.

I am not saying they are relevant to each other. I am saying that a lack of relevancy does not equal to a lack of legitimacy. We do not, as a society, have to tend to one at the expense of the other. Crazy Muslims running around the desert beheading people are a problem to be dealt with. Crazy Christians running around America trying to suppress people's rights is also a problem. The fact that the Crazy Christians aren't quite as crazy as the crazy Muslims is no reason to stop standing up to the crazy Christians.

quote:

Marc, I'm well aware that we have the WBC type Christians running about, here and there, in the US, but we know about them because they make for sensationalist news stories, not because they are rolling around in heavily armed convoys and seizing territory by force and intimidation.

Being expected to pay for your own damn birth control is a statement on how woman are liberated in one place, being kidnapped into slavery by people who murdered the rest of your family is about being less than human in another.

I'm still in WTF, on why these two things are on the same page.

quote:

ORIGINAL: subrosaDom

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

If I am reading between the sarcasm correctly your point is:

So some people around the world treat women even worse than conservative Christians do here in the U.S, therefore, we should not be upset over their (conservative Christians) constant attempts to restrict the rights of women here?

Why?

Just because some people are more evil than others, why should we ignore the lesser evils? Especially if they are closer to home?

How does ignoring the victims of Christians in any way help the victims of Muslims?

"Even worse"? How about 1,000,000x worse? Conservative Christians aren't killing women. Not paying for one or two forms of birth control is not death. Or anything close. Compared to what the ISIS Muslims do, your analogy is like comparing the destruction of an anthill to the Holocaust.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I'm not the one who put them on the same page. The OP did that (nor did I ever mention birth control although access to birth control is something the religious right tries to interfere with).

The whole point of the OP is to mock people's efforts to even have a dialogue - "And I keep hearing about this "War on Women" in the US?" - about defending our rights against the Conservative Christians. It's the old "not as bad as" fallacy:

"A is worse than B so shut up about B!"

I'm simply saying "no." I'm saying no because the fact that some fundie Muslims are nastier than some fundie Christians doesn't change the fact that fundie Christians are bad enough. They seek to trample peoples rights and deny them health and happiness, and even knowledge, for the supremely arrogant reason that their own ego (which they mistake for a god) tells them so. Conservative Christians are dangerous and their efforts to turn us into a theocracy (when the burnings can safely start again) must be stopped. One way to do that is through dialogue. The OP is essentially saying that such dialogue should be stopped because Muslims are meaner.

I see no reason to play along with this and I won't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Actually riffing off Muslims being a protected class and therefore you cannot criticize them à la Rotherham and other places (even in the US *shudder*) but you can accuse Scott Walker of rape and domestic violence and accuse all males of being rapists.

There have also been comments about how Islam does not *really* advocate these things. In the conversations about the slaves for sale, there is actually a discussion about what Islam, the Koran, and the Haddiths allow.

And yes, I am really sick of this fake "war on women" I keep hearing about.

Has mudering spouses, rape and child prositution ended in the US, or the UK, or Europe, while I wasnt looking ? Do you think that isnt a war on women or is it just boys being boys ?

The slaves for sale thing was a group of young Muslims on twitter or wherever and you want to tarnish every Muslim.

As for you mentioning Rotherham and not being able to criticise Muslims, you do know that the abuse in Rotherham Oxford and other places came to light because many of the victims started to speak out after reading about Rochdale. No, I didnt think so. Let me be clear though, the cover up, as in most cases is to protect the image of the local police and social services at the upper level. If you had read anything substantial on the case, you would have seen those lower down the chain had reports blocked by the higher ups. The reason it was exposed was because whistle blowers and the media were not scared to put the information right in the public eye.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc2b

I'm not the one who put them on the same page. The OP did that (nor did I ever mention birth control although access to birth control is something the religious right tries to interfere with).

The whole point of the OP is to mock people's efforts to even have a dialogue - "And I keep hearing about this "War on Women" in the US?" - about defending our rights against the Conservative Christians. It's the old "not as bad as" fallacy:

"A is worse than B so shut up about B!"

I'm simply saying "no." I'm saying no because the fact that some fundie Muslims are nastier than some fundie Christians doesn't change the fact that fundie Christians are bad enough. They seek to trample peoples rights and deny them health and happiness, and even knowledge, for the supremely arrogant reason that their own ego (which they mistake for a god) tells them so. Conservative Christians are dangerous and their efforts to turn us into a theocracy (when the burnings can safely start again) must be stopped. One way to do that is through dialogue. The OP is essentially saying that such dialogue should be stopped because Muslims are meaner.

I see no reason to play along with this and I won't.

Hm-mm, trying to make sense of this, if that is indeed what's going on with this discussion topic. Color me confused or naïve to the players over here at P&R, but I was going to ask the OP for clarification on her comment below (lifted from Ps's reply):

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

Actually riffing off Muslims being a protected class and therefore you cannot criticize them à la Rotherham and other places (even in the US *shudder*) but you can accuse Scott Walker of rape and domestic violence and accuse all males of being rapists.

There have also been comments about how Islam does not *really* advocate these things. In the conversations about the slaves for sale, there is actually a discussion about what Islam, the Koran, and the Haddiths allow.

And yes, I am really sick of this fake "war on women" I keep hearing about.

Has mudering spouses, rape and child prositution ended in the US, or the UK, or Europe, while I wasnt looking ? Do you think that isnt a war on women or is it just boys being boys ?

The slaves for sale thing was a group of young Muslims on twitter or wherever and you want to tarnish every Muslim.

As for you mentioning Rotherham and not being able to criticise Muslims, you do know that the abuse in Rotherham Oxford and other places came to light because many of the victims started to speak out after reading about Rochdale. No, I didnt think so. Let me be clear though, the cover up, as in most cases is to protect the image of the local police and social services at the upper level. If you had read anything substantial on the case, you would have seen those lower down the chain had reports blocked by the higher ups. The reason it was exposed was because whistle blowers and the media were not scared to put the information right in the public eye.

Aylee, is this what you are calling a "fake 'war on women'," those injustices which are targeted toward females in Western societies? Human trafficking and the *auctioning* off of sex slaves (who are mostly females, other than an infinitesimal fraction of youthful/minor males), for instance, is a worldwide phenomenon or global pandemic.

quote:

Crazy Christians running around America trying to suppress people's rights is also a problem.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

As I stated to marc if you want to attack Western societies problems concerning women start a thread on it, do not hijack a thread on Mideastern atrocities for it. Why don't you want to admit that ISIS is evil incarnate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

As I stated to marc if you want to attack Western societies problems concerning women start a thread on it, do not hijack a thread on Mideastern atrocities for it. Why don't you want to admit that ISIS is evil incarnate.