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ORIGINAL: BecomingV

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ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

With respect to your observation below, and what BecomingV had posted about those of us who find it useful for there to be distinctions in how we might classify ourselves, I was going to agree that there are those who do engage in power exchange as bedroom(-only) Dominants and submissives, and that I personally believe that couples can have this D/s dynamic without being *just* a BDSM Top or *just* a BDSM bottom.

I'll clarify.

When kinksters engage in power exchange, we no longer call them "kinksters." At that point, they become Dominants, Submissives or Switches... because one of them has authority over the other.

Kinksters are people who like kinky sex or who like kinky acts (like impact play... flogging, but no sex). They don't identify with power exchanges. They may even think that D/s is silly, ridiculous or delusional. They tend to think that Dominants and submissives are unwell. Either, submissives are people who want to get out of the responsibilities of adulthood or the Dominants are abusers using kink to fool an idiot.

For kinksters, it's about playfulness among equals. Who tops and who bottoms is about who feels like it. There is no authority involved, at all.

Dominants and submissives engage in power exchange. Some couples make that look like female or male, supremacist, vanilla marriage. There is no kinky sex involved at all. Someone's THE BOSS.

When a Dominant or submissive also has fetishes and engage in kinky play, it becomes an expression of power exchange, and isn't simply fun with kink.

When a Dominant or submissive are also sadists and masochists, the S/m becomes an expression of power exchange, and it isn't simply fun with kink.

When a Switch engages in kink, it's an expression of power exchange, because "Switch" means a switch in power/authority. You may recall reading about Switch/Switch couples, in which one takes the Dominant role while the other takes the submissive role.

It may help to add this:

Top - a kinkster who provides the sensations
bottom - a kinkster who receives sensations

Topping - the act of giving sensations (a submissive, a Dominant, a Switch or a kinkster can provide sensations... think, the one who holds the flogger, the one who rigs the rope)
bottoming - the receiving of sensations ( same list as above) the one who gets flogged, the one who gets tied up)

Please note two things. First, nothing above says that being one way, or the other, is better or worse, right or wrong.

If anything, it's the opposite because it allows for variety of expression and relating. They are simply distinctions.

Heck, I shout this from the rooftops - labels are starting points and every single one of them needs to be approached with a gazillion questions to clarify between individuals. Case in point... this really long post to clarify! LOL

I do not agree that terminology is a "YMMV" issue. No, language is a unifying entity. You can make up your own stuff, but don't expect others to know what you are talking about. (Not you, FO, I mean, in general.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

With respect to your observation below, and what BecomingV had posted about those of us who find it useful for there to be distinctions in how we might classify ourselves, I was going to agree that there are those who do engage in power exchange as bedroom(-only) Dominants and submissives, and that I personally believe that couples can have this D/s dynamic without being *just* a BDSM Top or *just* a BDSM bottom.

I'll clarify.

When kinksters engage in power exchange, we no longer call them "kinksters." At that point, they become Dominants, Submissives or Switches... because one of them has authority over the other.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

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ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

We aren't in a club, and we aren't talking about being in a club, dungeon, play party, yada, yada, yada. We are talking online and how those terms are used.

No, you are. I'm being more broad. For instance, the OP of this thread is about a person in real-life. And you chose to focus on one of how many sources of unified, BDSM language? Other than books, the rest of the list IS available online. It's as if you are saying, "No, dictionaries don't exist because I don't like what the terms are, or what they mean." Unless I am misunderstanding you. Are you positing that there is no unified language in BDSM?

No, this is an online forum. How about the people who insist that using capitals when referring to d-types and lower case when referring to s-types is "they way it is done?" Are you going to claim that is a broadly accepted concept and therefore people should be doing it? Oh, and since you speak of "real life" not internet forums, also explain how that is done face to face. How about "slashy speak?" Many people were taught that was the proper way to communicate, but it's really bullshit.

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Around this site those terms get wielded like weapons because the "one true way" abounds. I've been here a long, long time and have seen it regularly. Likewise, those who regularly attend play parties and clubs telling those who keep things private that they can't possibly know.

I don't think one has to be a murderer to know what it means but unless I actually murder someone, I'm thinking that those who have could fill me in on a thing or two. Like, those who go out in the community and engage with others from around the world, in real life, in addition to, online interactions - they know more.

If I were a newbie, would you suggest I get my information from an online poster, or would you suggest I get my information from the BDSM organizations? Information in this case - terminology.

So online communities are filled with people whose experience and opinions are irrelevant unless they have written some organization's terminology pamphlet. I see where you are coming from now.

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The point was, is and will remain that while there is certainly a general definition for the terms, the individuals decide which they feel applies to themselves and they get to explain it to whoever they are speaking to. If that person disagrees, no problem, each moves on to the next, or perhaps they discuss the reasons each defines themselves as such and gain understanding of each other.

We agree about this. ^^^ Are you thinking we disagree? I only said that you were incorrect in your terms.

And that is the point, by being so rigid regarding terms you feel you have the right to tell others what they identify as? Is that really so difficult for you to see?

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For example, you identify as a "switch," yet from reading your profile, there are many who would think of you solely as a player who really is only into things mostly for sexual gratification. Now, I'm sure you would disagree, and then the question becomes, who is right? Well, you are right of course, simply because you are describing how you feel you fit into things. That is the whole point of what I am saying.

You say that as if that were a problem. So what if people are here for sex? I don't judge them. I celebrate them. So, if someone were to get that impression of me, I'd be fine with discussing it. No insult, or anything like that. For example, one guy earlier tonight offered $500 to kennel him. Ignoramus - his first contact. Did I respond, "Ick?" LOL No, I referred him to this side to the professionals' thread and told him what he sought was for sale there, and he might be safer doing it that way. I also told him that if he kept sending that email out, he will offend people and I wished him well. He wrote back to say he meant no offense. Well, I COULD feel offended but I don't. I just accept that every so often, a message like that will appear. I try to respond as if they just don't know any better and help if i can point them towards their bliss.

So you felt a need to "educate" him about how to properly engage. How very nice of you. Now I know who to refer everyone to when I feel they are confused.

Oh and why is it that when someone tells you that you are really just a kinky player, you don't get offended? Because you don't let someone else's definition define YOU. Which is pretty much my whole point.

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Now, back to your reading comprehension. Did you see the parts in which I said, "I identify as Primal?" See, you didn't really read it. I went on to say that this was because I can be happy with, or without, a D/s dynamic. That really, I'm just open to love. So which is it? Do you have trouble reading or did you skim, and tell yourself you knew what you were talking about? And, that's being kind and not suggesting that you are outright lying. You also missed other obvious things like, my Vanilla Hard Limits coming before BDSM hard limits. Or, the part in which I say I don't list kinks because I wouldn't be making choices based on kinks. There's the part about mono, poly or swinging, in which I say I'm open to discussing these things AFTER our relationship is solidified. Or, how about the part I titled, "men who make me pant, pant, pant" which is all about feminist men. And, let's not forget, my closing... approach me in a vanilla and friendly way and let's enjoy getting to know each other. Other hints include: no BDSM interests listed at all, but vanilla ones are. Or, under "seeking" it says, "friends only." Oh, and I don't post a picture, either.

I love when people try to tell me my reading comprehension is off. Yes, I read your profile, including the part where you admit how long winded you are by nominating yourself for the "longest profile."

So now let's add yet another definition to the ever growing list..."primal." Which based on your statement means that you can take D/s or leave it. Sure, that's exactly what it means. Oh and while you don't get graphic (thank God for that), you do discuss your BDSM interests, just not in the form of a kink list.

Did you know that even what you were define as "lifestylers" prefer to get to know someone in the vanilla sense before engaging when they are looking for a relationship? Because at the end of the day, most people realize that you can't be kinky 24/7 and "vanilla" compatibility is the key to success.

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What can I tell you? Today, a guy wrote to say he loved my profile... and that happens a lot. Not just guys, women, too. And, they are people of all different roles, ages, places, etc... He and I exchanged quite a few emails about... guess what? Classics in literature. So, while YOU got a sexy vibe, I assure you, others aren't giving me that kind of feedback at all. Refreshing and intelligent is what I hear most frequently.

Pointing to my profile has failed as an example to make your point. If anything, you've made it clear that you're having some sort of comprehension issue. Not always... I usually think you make sense, although not just now.

I get lots of people referring to how wonderful my profile is too. And this one is blank, as I only use it for the forums. On my other profile, I talk about kink only in what I am NOT looking for, and like you make a point of saying that the vanilla must be a good match first.

As for reading comprehension, I hate to burst your bubble. We have been discussing "definitions" and as such, I merely pointed out that based on your profile, how others might define you. I was not critiquing it for its value as a profile, because essentially it wasn't germane to this discussion. If YOUR reading comprehension was up to speed, you might have figured that out.

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Do you get that you and I care about newbies and about submissives and slaves who are manipulated by false information? Doms and Dommes, too.

There is nothing i wrote that says people can't define themselves. I agree that they can and should.

All of this is about one thing... you don't know your terms and you think that making distinctions in terms, is some sort of value judgment. No, it's simply clarity.

Dom + sadist = Sadistic Dom
Top + masochist = Masochistic Top
Kinkster + submissive = Kinky Submissive
Dom + bottom = Dominant bottom
Switch + Top = varies, it depends if the Switch is Dominant or submissive

See how that works?

If you still don't see, then I repeat, "If we disagree, then others can read more than one point of view. It's all good."

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

With respect to your observation below, and what BecomingV had posted about those of us who find it useful for there to be distinctions in how we might classify ourselves, I was going to agree that there are those who do engage in power exchange as bedroom(-only) Dominants and submissives, and that I personally believe that couples can have this D/s dynamic without being *just* a BDSM Top or *just* a BDSM bottom.

I'll clarify.

When kinksters engage in power exchange, we no longer call them "kinksters." At that point, they become Dominants, Submissives or Switches... because one of them has authority over the other.

Who the fuck is the "we" here. If you're referring to the people on this board then you're plainly wrong.

Are you referring to the BDSM Illuminati perhaps?

Is there some fucking UN convention on KINK that governs terminology in this way?

I just couldn't read any more of your post, for fear that I might choke on my coffee.

I suspect it was nonsense, mind you.