Knowing yourself (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message


smileforme50 -> Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 9:05:37 AM)

GoddessManko said something in the topic "How much of a submissive's fantasies should a dominant cater to?"

quote:


Actually your interests should be in mind all of the time, including things that he might know about you that you are unaware of yourself.


And I have to ask.....What could a dominant know about a submissive that the submissive doesn't already know about him/herself?

I mean....I've known myself for 48 years longer than any Dom will know me....I think I know myself pretty damned well. And if there are things I don't know about myself....then he's not going to know about them either.

And second question.....Does this go both ways? Are there things a submissve knows about a dominant that the Dom doesn't know about him or herself?




ExiledTyrant -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 9:26:40 AM)

Good topic, baby-cakes ;)

I wouldn't say it's an intuitive knowledge, just an intelligent educated assessment. If you liked spicy food, sea food, and loved the texture of scallops, I'd introduce you to octopus. You may or may balk at the idea of the tentacled little creatures, but by indulging me you'd most likely find a new passion.

There have been a few times here that I've told someone that they're not a D, a switch, or whatever, and encourage them to explore those possibilities. Sometimes I'm less right, but more often than not, I'm spot on. Again, evaluating the message they are sending in this medium allows me to utilize an intelligent educated assessment and move them a little closer to their happy.

Sometimes we get so caught up in what is is, we can't see what could be. I'm very much guilty of this, and hope to have a reliable girl that I can defer to... One that isn't such a sycophant she's going to allow me to be less right often. As you well know, being a good /s or D requires doing what is best for your partner, even if it means not catering to their whim/ego. You may loath all things Gorean, but if you spent a day in a Sirik you may find that you want to spend many days in a Sirik.

So yes, I do believe that a D or /s can see things and connect things about us that we do not. It doesn't make them omniscient, it makes them objective and observant, we simply have to be "big" enough to listen.

Jus sayin




Ninebelowzero -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 9:57:59 AM)

Not wishing to derail the thread, unsure if I am or not tbh, but in my opinion sexuality, roles etc is more fluid than we like to admit. I think my roles in a kink relationship have never been the same way twice, apart from the basics. Maybe Iam prepared to be flexible in my thinking to meet my partner half way or something.




smileforme50 -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 9:58:47 AM)

Using your two examples....

I think I already know myself well enough to know that I love seafood and hate spicy stuff and using that information, and asking questions about the menu item (exactly how spicy is it? What other ingredients are in it?), I could determine for myself pretty well without any help, whether or not I would like octopus. I already know what ingredients in food I love and which ones I hate and if the prominent ingredient is something I know I loathe, I'm not going near the dish....no matter what anyone else tells me. If it's something that's "maybe...maybe not", then I'll give it a try and then we will BOTH find out at the same time. But he can't KNOW me any better than I know myself in this matter.

As far as the Sirik/Gorean....I may loathe the general idea of "Gorean", but I am still mature enough and open minded enough to know that it is possible to like small pieces of something I'm not interested in overall. It's comparable to liking a couple of ingredients in a recipe but not liking that particular recipe because there are too many other ingredients in the recipe I don't like.
What the D would be showing me would be what a Sirik is (since I have know idea what a Sirik is). I would then look at the Sirik as it's own separate thing and not think of it as "Gorean" or pre-judge that I would or would not like it because it is "Gorean".

But he still doesn't know me better than I know myself....in these examples, he is simply taken things that he knows about me, which are things that I have already shown him,using that information and testing a hypothesis. But I do that all on my own without a Dom.




smileforme50 -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 10:01:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

Not wishing to derail the thread, unsure if I am or not tbh, but in my opinion sexuality, roles etc is more fluid than we like to admit. I think my roles in a kink relationship have never been the same way twice, apart from the basics. Maybe Iam prepared to be flexible in my thinking to meet my partner half way or something.



Some people are fluid and some are not. There are some things we know about ourselves that are rock solid and not going to change, and some we know can change.




Ninebelowzero -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 10:08:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ninebelowzero

Not wishing to derail the thread, unsure if I am or not tbh, but in my opinion sexuality, roles etc is more fluid than we like to admit. I think my roles in a kink relationship have never been the same way twice, apart from the basics. Maybe Iam prepared to be flexible in my thinking to meet my partner half way or something.



Some people are fluid and some are not. There are some things we know about ourselves that are rock solid and not going to change, and some we know can change.


Beter put than I could manage cheers.




SpyUnderCover -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 10:17:27 AM)

According to some theorists, there are parts of ourselves that we may be blind to that others are able to see.

Spy

[image]local://upfiles/1025172/294A6DD157EE487487D9D69E5F191DB7.jpg[/image]




GoddessManko -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 10:36:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpyUnderCover

According to some theorists, there are parts of ourselves that we may be blind to that others are able to see.

Spy

[image]local://upfiles/1025172/294A6DD157EE487487D9D69E5F191DB7.jpg[/image]


Wonderful depiction and thank you, I'm going to explore this further. I was unaware of the Johari window but I enjoy it's connotation. And to take it a step further, imagine dealing with a D or s who has this condition, coupled with an INTJ personality. Low Latent Inhibition




smileforme50 -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 10:40:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SpyUnderCover

According to some theorists, there are parts of ourselves that we may be blind to that others are able to see.

Spy

[image]local://upfiles/1025172/294A6DD157EE487487D9D69E5F191DB7.jpg[/image]



I suppose.....but I'm still trying to figure out what some of those things could possibly be. I already know that I am a disagreeable bitch at times.....so that's one I do have figured out. But I guess in this case IMO, "Blind" is by choice.




littleladybug -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 10:58:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50


And second question.....Does this go both ways? Are there things a submissve knows about a dominant that the Dom doesn't know about him or herself?


Yup...

It's amazing what you can see about someone before they can see it themselves. That's just life...and that's just what happens when you have the ability to look at a situation from the "outside"...no matter your label.

Honestly, I don't think it requires any education in psychology to see this.

My extremely intelligent current *whatever* wrote me an e-mail several weeks back....essentially, he was "blaming" me for certain issues that were clearly not my fault. Well, yeah, I saw it for what it was at the get go...and he finally came around to seeing it the same way, weeks later. In this situation, it seems to me that it was an issue of "self-preservation"...after all, it's far easier to look outside than inside when it comes to painful issues. So, yes....I saw it...recognized it...prior to him doing so. And, that's just life.






smileforme50 -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 11:07:40 AM)

I was just taking a quick look at that Johari Window thing .....interesting....but still....I don't know.

The idea behind it is that you are given a list of 56 adjectives and you pick the ones that you think best describe yourself. Then that list is given to other people, and then they pick the top 5 they think best describes you.

For me I would pick: introverted, independent, nervous, patient and tense.

But just because someone else might say that I am: introverted, logical, sentimental, silly and tense, doesn't mean that I don't already know that I am logical, sentimental or silly. I'm certainly not unaware that I have those characteristics and that they are a big part of my personality.

Plus these are things that can greatly change with mood, one day I may feel logical and another day I may feel silly. Who's to say what my primary characteristic is?





SeekingTrinity -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 11:46:41 AM)

~FRing it~

I cannot really answer your question as such, but I'll try.

Can someone know you better than you know yourself? I used to think a lot along the same lines as you. No way in hell could some person know me better than I know myself! But if that was the case, I don't think Id be where I am today as far as my relationship with my guy goes.

I loathe and downright fear vulnerability and a loss of control. I've been dominant all my life for this very reason...if I was to be completely honest with you folks reading my words and with myself. When I met my guy in 2012, I was firmly dominant. He was as well, yet was wanting to experience submission. So that is how our relationship began. However during our first intimate time together...I ended up in a submissive position to him in what turned out to be the birth of the switch I identify as now. Could I have gotten out of the restraints? Yes, very easily as the wrist ones were Velcro that I could easily reach with my hands and Im not known as his escape artist for nothing [:)] Could I have fought him? Yes, I could have. I could have freaked, I could have screamed and had hotel security and the police banging through the door in a heartbeat...but I didn't. I was nervous and apprehensive, but something inside of me whispered that I was in good hands. That I was safe...and that he trusted me enough to let go of his control. Something told me to be willing to trust him enough to let go of mine.

What I didn't know then that I know now is...he is the male version of me and I the female version of him. That is why our connection works the way it does. I firmly believe he saw in me something I didn't see in myself. Or maybe...what I refused to see in myself because of my own fear. But there are limits. I abso-fucking-lutely HATE seafood and no amount of convincing on his part that I really do love it deep down inside is going to get me loving that shit [:)]

Does it work that way for everyone? I honestly cannot say with any certainty. Everyone is very individual. If it isn't you, it isn't you. And nothing wrong with that. I used to think like this myself.




smileforme50 -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 12:08:02 PM)

Very interesting and something to think about.

Funny thing....I've has MANY of my online friends tell me that they think I could be dominant. I used to belong to a Yahoo group and as a bit of an inside joke they used to all call me "Domme Kathy"

I can see where they might get that idea. But I enjoy serving another (and being spanked!) way too much to go to the other side. [sm=yesmaster.gif]




CountDrackula -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 12:26:13 PM)

agrees with know thyself and thieve not someone elses pictures
but that only has meaning if the above statement is true...strange is it not.

one cannot ever/truly know a lie

the defense adjourns for a glass of chardonnay




Kaliko -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 12:30:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: smileforme50

And I have to ask.....What could a dominant know about a submissive that the submissive doesn't already know about him/herself?

I mean....I've known myself for 48 years longer than any Dom will know me....I think I know myself pretty damned well. And if there are things I don't know about myself....then he's not going to know about them either.



My experience has been that he has seen things in me that I didn't want to see. Some insecurities I have. Some reasons for past behavior. (And wow, that one knocked me for a loop. Turns out, I too, was the victim of sub frenzy at one time. Damn.)

I have nothing real to back this up with, but my gut tells me that it's a defense mechanism. Something happens in our lives and we frame it the way we need to frame it to move forward. Then someone else comes along and helps us (or makes us) see how we were actually affected by it.

I'm curious - doesn't anybody have these types of conversations with their friends or family? A couple of friends of mine and I are constantly helping each other through some sort of breakthrough about why we are the way we are.


quote:

And second question.....Does this go both ways? Are there things a submissve knows about a dominant that the Dom doesn't know about him or herself?


I think the same applies both ways. I think something like this is regardless of D/s. It just comes with getting to know somebody well enough to discern valid reasons for their behavior that they, themselves, might not see. D/s, husband and wife, best friends, sisters....





CountDrackula -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 12:54:34 PM)

Peoples realities differ. Therefore you have one reality applying their reality onto another and vice versa..this is how simple this is. But how do we define reality and who does the defining.
i shall cite some examples
1. Me using someone elses pictures and alluding to the fact that is me in them, to those who mail me and talk to me.
2. Me being married am not but who really knows i may have 50 wifeys I omit this fact from those i talk too and my profile and my partner is totally unaware; as she is sleeping, at work, in hospital ill/giving birth, and so on...is this ilks modus operandi is they slip it in later after they rope some poor smuck..they do occasionally get a genuine one but fortunately & statistically they are more than likely talking to someone like themselves.
3. I lie on my profile about everything
we all know this goes on....do they have a reality are they less or more real than me, to be brief.
4. i watch some porn and read fragments of this and that and call myself masterlordloonthefirst (not the good kind of loon) or patient zero
5. i and my clique inhabit all or some variable of the above

I will end again one cannot ever/truly know a lie goes both ways obviously




shiftyw -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 2:08:29 PM)

I don't think this is limited to D/s. I'm with Kaliko- this happens with my friends all the time or any relationships.




AKinkCounselor -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 2:17:44 PM)

All life on earth stems from the same basic genetic material, you share 90-something percent of your DNA with a Banana, and 98-99% of it with a monkey. The genetic difference from one human to another is thousandths of a percent.*

The point being, we're not all the unique beautiful snowflake we believe we are. Or at least, we're only unique to a few decimal places. If you disassemble one human being, and disassemble another, you'll find that by and large, everything is very very much the same.

The same is true of what goes on in our heads, we might all come across differently, we have different desires and needs when you cast your eye over the surface of what people think of themselves. But when you start to poke around underneath those things, it starts getting a lot of the same connections.

If you put time into understanding those connections, if you get a feel for what sort of effects guilt can have, what loneliness can do, you can start to form a map of those connections, you can start to get a feel for what connects to what.

Of course we all have those feelings, we all have the ability to understand the connections of the people in our lives, the close friends that we have spent time getting to know. The trick is being able to understand the mechanisms at play in a general enough way to apply them to everyone.

It is easy to imagine applying that knowledge in quite a coarse way, the new submissive who comes to this place with nothing but a curiosity, they start talking to a dom(me) and the conversation uncovers the facets of the submissive, the conversation being guided by the submissive's reactions to the conversation.

My personal approach has always been very largely based on linguistics and semantics, I think the words we use give away a huge amount of information that we don't intend to give. When we are talking about things that we understand and know about ourselves we can speak confidently and openly. When the conversation turns to more difficult topics, our words change, the way we deliver them alters very very slightly. (Either verbally or written) If you can apply the topics that the words and delivery (and other things) change around, then you can start to understand what it is about them that their mind is throwing mental roadblocks at. Once you have a vague idea of where the roadblock is, you can direct the conversation to the places around it to confirm what you suspect. At that point you've very likely learnt something about that person that they had absolutely no knowledge of before that moment.

Once you have uncovered one snippet about someone, you will generally start finding others that are connected to it. It's like they're buried under soft sand, and tied together with rope, once you've found the end, it just takes effort to find more.

So to answer the OP's question, yes there are huge swathes of our personalities that we aren't aware of, that we hide from ourselves, or just fail to realise. I got into the job I have because I was good at digging up those things (I don't think anything I studied helped that part at all)

Put it this way, I've never met anyone that I've not been able to spend time digging around with that I've not been able to tell them more about themselves than they didn't already know.

*I did know these numbers once, I've since forgotten, and mostly made it up! But they're vaguely close, and its for illustration purposes only. i.e. You get what I mean.




AKinkCounselor -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 2:28:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I don't think this is limited to D/s. I'm with Kaliko- this happens with my friends all the time or any relationships.


It isn't just D/s - its a human thing! people can read things in people that they didn't know about themselves



quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

~FRing it~

Does it work that way for everyone? I honestly cannot say with any certainty. Everyone is very individual. If it isn't you, it isn't you. And nothing wrong with that. I used to think like this myself.


I think a lot of people try to brow beat other's into the fact that they know them, they exploit insecurities to force their own viewpoints, its why I generally keep very quiet about the reading people thing, its got a bad rap!

But, yes it does work, some people can read people, they don't need to be your soulmate, they don't need to be your best friend (the better they are the further away (emotionally / intimitely) they can pick things up about you.


quote:

ORIGINAL: CountDrackula

agrees with know thyself and thieve not someone elses pictures
but that only has meaning if the above statement is true...strange is it not.

one cannot ever/truly know a lie


Maybe I'm just not reading you well! ( ;) ) but I'm not sure that's what the OP is actually talking about.

Otherwise known as

I don't think that means what you think it means...




AKinkCounselor -> RE: Knowing yourself (9/13/2014 2:34:15 PM)

My favourite fact about the Johari window, is that while it sounds like some fabulously eastern mystical symbolism thing.

Its actually just named after its (american) creators

Joseph Luft and Harrington Ingham




Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
6.152344E-02