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Heads are going to roll - 9/13/2014 11:47:49 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		I see the insane savages in the sand are at it again.

This shit needs a soundtrack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyOw6bWy8X8

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29195872


If the man with the power can't keep it under control...

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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 12:06:52 AM   
Aylee


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Joined: 10/14/2007
Status: offline 		Beheading “infidels” and those cast as “enemies of Islam” has a specific origin in Islamic history. A desert called peace is sounding better and better.

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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 2:33:59 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I see the insane savages in the sand are at it again.

Just how many B-52s do we have left in the arsenal?

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"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 7:23:12 AM   
DesideriScuri


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I see the insane savages in the sand are at it again.
This shit needs a soundtrack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyOw6bWy8X8
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-29195872
If the man with the power can't keep it under control...


Who is responsible for making sure journalists are safe in a country?

Is it the British government's job to maintain safety for each of it's citizens abroad?

Is it a government's responsibility, duty, or authority to maintain the safety of each of it's citizens abroad?

I feel bad for the families of the journalists. I really do. But, if Britain or the US (kinda moot with the US) goes after IS/ISIS/ISIL because of the beheading(s), isn't it within Russia's responsibility, duty, or authority to defend it's citizens in the Ukraine?

And, if it's okay for the US/Britain to attack ISIS for beheading one of our/it's citizens, why haven't we (the US) rooted out the Mexican drug cartel(s) that have beheaded a US citizen?

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What I support:

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  • Personal Responsibility
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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 10:52:21 AM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

Just how many B-52s do we have left in the arsenal?



Plenty, and nowhere near enough, at the same time.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 11:13:10 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

Who is responsible for making sure journalists are safe in a country?

Is it the British government's job to maintain safety for each of it's citizens abroad?

Is it a government's responsibility, duty, or authority to maintain the safety of each of it's citizens abroad?

I feel bad for the families of the journalists. I really do. But, if Britain or the US (kinda moot with the US) goes after IS/ISIS/ISIL because of the beheading(s), isn't it within Russia's responsibility, duty, or authority to defend it's citizens in the Ukraine?

And, if it's okay for the US/Britain to attack ISIS for beheading one of our/it's citizens, why haven't we (the US) rooted out the Mexican drug cartel(s) that have beheaded a US citizen?

As repulsive as it is, it isn't the beheadings themselves that's cause for alarm, DS. At least, not in my view. It's what they represent. I agree with you that the murdered journalists bear some of the responsibility for going into dangerous territory by choice (if I'm reading you correctly) but I also believe a government should be available to it's citizens abroad. Especially when they are inadvertently caught up in some political or legal issue within that country. Isn't that one reason we have embassies?

One question your post raised in my mind is what would we have done if our first view of the Nazis had just been pictures from inside the concentration camps?



_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 11:21:38 AM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
Status: offline 		FR

http://www.iranfocus.com/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=29880:paris-conference-aims-to-divide-up-tasks-in-is-fight&catid=45&Itemid=123

Just the fact that the French are hosting the conference on "who is going to do what" ought to tell us the predictable outcome for this coalition.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 11:56:58 AM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Just the fact that the French are hosting the conference on "who is going to do what" ought to tell us the predictable outcome for this coalition.

Just the fact that we apparently need a conference like this is disturbing to me. Hasn't 60+ years of NATO already taught us how to handle a situation as a group?

Personally, I'm at least glad to see the French trying to get involved on this side of the fence instead of taking their typical "not our problem, not your problem either" attitude. Must be their military successes in Central Africa have given them a shot of "La Viagra de la Militaire".

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 1:31:15 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny

Just the fact that we apparently need a conference like this is disturbing to me. Hasn't 60+ years of NATO already taught us how to handle a situation as a group?

Personally, I'm at least glad to see the French trying to get involved on this side of the fence instead of taking their typical "not our problem, not your problem either" attitude. Must be their military successes in Central Africa have given them a shot of "La Viagra de la Militaire".



We'll see how long they stay on one side of the fence.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to RottenJohnny)
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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 2:45:18 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		There actually is pretty straightforward and easy way to address the problem of the insane savages in the sand, but it isn't pretty.

If the US and western powers do a complete 180 on Assad and partner with him, the brutal dictators of the middle-east can take care of this, with the US acting as their air support. Anybody think President Obama could find the stones to give Assad his chemical weapons back?

I doubt this will happen, any more than Iraq was placed back in the hands of a more controllable dictator than Saddam Hussein, back when that approach might have worked in 2005-ish.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to TheHeretic)
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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 3:19:36 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RottenJohnny
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
Who is responsible for making sure journalists are safe in a country?
Is it the British government's job to maintain safety for each of it's citizens abroad?
Is it a government's responsibility, duty, or authority to maintain the safety of each of it's citizens abroad?
I feel bad for the families of the journalists. I really do. But, if Britain or the US (kinda moot with the US) goes after IS/ISIS/ISIL because of the beheading(s), isn't it within Russia's responsibility, duty, or authority to defend it's citizens in the Ukraine?
And, if it's okay for the US/Britain to attack ISIS for beheading one of our/it's citizens, why haven't we (the US) rooted out the Mexican drug cartel(s) that have beheaded a US citizen?

As repulsive as it is, it isn't the beheadings themselves that's cause for alarm, DS. At least, not in my view. It's what they represent. I agree with you that the murdered journalists bear some of the responsibility for going into dangerous territory by choice (if I'm reading you correctly) but I also believe a government should be available to it's citizens abroad. Especially when they are inadvertently caught up in some political or legal issue within that country. Isn't that one reason we have embassies?
One question your post raised in my mind is what would we have done if our first view of the Nazis had just been pictures from inside the concentration camps?


Don't we have an embassy in Iraq, or Syria? We have 4 in Iraq, and one in Syria. But, we aren't talking about building more embassies.

What, in your view, do the beheadings represent?


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to RottenJohnny)
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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 3:58:05 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		The beheadings represent terrorism, no more and no less. They are meant to get a reaction, except it might not be the one they expected.

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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 4:11:49 PM   
RottenJohnny


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
But, we aren't talking about building more embassies.

No, we're not. But as I understand it, we did try to negotiate for the release of the hostages and we failed. So now what? Put all the blame on the hostages for going there and forget about it? If it were a case where they had been found dead in an alley and there was no clear idea of what happened or why, I might be able to do that. But their deaths were used as a larger political statement against the West directly and non-Muslims indirectly. I think we'd be foolish to ignore that.

quote:


What, in your view, do the beheadings represent?

For now, exactly what ISIS wants us to think they represent...their intent to destroy non-Muslim civilizations, or at least, their unwillingness to accept non-Muslim cultures. Because I don't believe they'll stop threatening us if we simply leave them alone. Not even if we removed everything that represents western culture from their territory. What I'm trying to decide now is whether or not it may represent the Muslim version of the "ghost dance".

_____________________________

"I find your arguments strewn with gaping defects in logic." - Mr. Spock

"Give me liberty or give me death." - Patrick Henry

I believe in common sense, not common opinions. - Me

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 4:24:13 PM   
TheHeretic


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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The beheadings represent terrorism, no more and no less. They are meant to get a reaction, except it might not be the one they expected.



That's a remarkably one-sided and sheltered view of what these events represent. For a segment of the audience, these acts are divinely inspired justice.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 4:34:00 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic


quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

The beheadings represent terrorism, no more and no less. They are meant to get a reaction, except it might not be the one they expected.



That's a remarkably one-sided and sheltered view of what these events represent. For a segment of the audience, these acts are divinely inspired justice.


You are wrong again. If they meant to represent justice these men would have been killed when first captured. They are clearly intended for propoganda aimed at the American and British audience. The timing of them makes the reasoning clear. You could argue that the specific action may have intended to either turn public opinion against the UK and US governments, or to bring about a unilateral response that ISIS could then use as more propoganda.

That said I am glad you feel speaking up on terrorism and pointing it out for what it is would make someones viewpoint "One-sided and sheltered" It just enhances your continued stupidity on the issue.

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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 4:44:21 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		That's okay, Polite. I understand. You don't live in a country that would trust you with the liberty to say that there are groups of teenage muslim fuckwits living in your cities and suburbs who idolize this shit, and dream of escaping to Syria to fight for it. Hell, it takes you guys better than a decade to face up to a child molestation club.

Of course it is deliberate propaganda from ISIS, but what it represents in certain sectors (you aren't going to get in trouble for reading this, are you?) varies widely. You can only see your reaction.

I'm curious though. When those guys inside your country beheaded a soldier in the street, you just saw a crime. What is it about a Brit beheading a Brit a few thousand miles away that is so much more significant in your mind than a Brit beheading a Brit on a city street at home?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 4:58:59 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I'm curious though. When those guys inside your country beheaded a soldier in the street, you just saw a crime. What is it about a Brit beheading a Brit a few thousand miles away that is so much more significant in your mind than a Brit beheading a Brit on a city street at home?


Which beheading in the UK was this, TH?

The Brit beheading a Brit a few thousand miles away is part of an army, all of whom appear to like to do the same thing. They have advanced weapons to help them. They have overrun vast swathes of territory and menaced entire cities. The two men involved in the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby were psychopathic lunatics who had no army behind them and whose actions haven't been repeated here by anyone since.

Jeez, the words 'get things in proportion' do somewhat spring to mind.

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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 4:59:24 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

That's okay, Polite. I understand. You don't live in a country that would trust you with the liberty to say that there are groups of teenage muslim fuckwits living in your cities and suburbs who idolize this shit, and dream of escaping to Syria to fight for it. Hell, it takes you guys better than a decade to face up to a child molestation club.

Of course it is deliberate propaganda from ISIS, but what it represents in certain sectors (you aren't going to get in trouble for reading this, are you?) varies widely. You can only see your reaction.

I'm curious though. When those guys inside your country beheaded a soldier in the street, you just saw a crime. What is it about a Brit beheading a Brit a few thousand miles away that is so much more significant in your mind than a Brit beheading a Brit on a city street at home?



FFS are you thicker than I gave you credit for, I set the bar low and you constantly manage to slide under it. The arseholes who murdered Lee Rigby were not part of any terrorist group, although they may well have watched jihadist videos which you feel shouldnt be censored. What part of "murder" dont you get ?

You talk about child abuse and taking a decade before it was discovered, or something was done about it. I seem to recall a film about some guys in a Catholic School in the US who had gone through such abuse. People in glass houses and all that.

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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 5:01:30 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
I'm curious though. When those guys inside your country beheaded a soldier in the street, you just saw a crime. What is it about a Brit beheading a Brit a few thousand miles away that is so much more significant in your mind than a Brit beheading a Brit on a city street at home?


Which beheading in the UK was this, TH?

The Brit beheading a Brit a few thousand miles away is part of an army, all of whom appear to like to do the same thing. They have advanced weapons to help them. They have overrun vast swathes of territory and menaced entire cities. The two men involved in the murder of Drummer Lee Rigby were psychopathic lunatics who had no army behind them and whose actions haven't been repeated here by anyone since.

Jeez, the words 'get things in proportion' do somewhat spring to mind.


I think he was on about Lee Rigby although he wasnt actually beheaded, or maybe the latest nutter in North London. His problem is he cant work out the difference between mental illness, criminality or terrorism.

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RE: Heads are going to roll - 9/14/2014 5:05:53 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


Which beheading in the UK was this, TH?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Lee_Rigby

I guess it didn't show up in the papers you read.

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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