RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (Full Version)

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InHisHeart -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 5:24:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

There are ways to make one's interest known. [;)]

I think both genders appreciate it more when they each make an effort to encourage the other.
Everyone has her/his own style of seduction or boldness, flirtatiousness, assertiveness, depending on one's personality and how it meshes with the one you desire who will desire you with at least the same degree of intensity.

No point to cry over spilt milk over missed opportunities. Somebody who's truly special (your right match) won't fade into oblivion. If it's meant to be, it's meant to be, and forcing the issue will never garner a positive result, IMHO.


Yes, there are ways to make one's interest known, I prefer the direct approach whether it's me approaching or him doing the approaching. By the direct approach, there are no mixed signals, no confusion wondering from either person if it's just flirting, if it's the way the person conducts themselves or there's a genuine interest in seeing if there's something more to be had.

I'm not suggesting crying over missed opportunities, I was curious if anyone thought back and wondered what might or might not have been, certainly not dwell on it.

I don't believe in forcing the issue, as I said previously if the other doesn't share a mutual interest, move on.

I'm not arguing with you or anyone on their way, I'm simply stating the direct approach has always been my way and it's worked out well for me.





MariaB -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 5:24:54 AM)

I initially contacted Steve on here and not the other way round but I was careful how I did it. I looked at his picture, read his profile and decided he was hot before sending him a two word message, "nice boat." What I wouldn't of done is send him a message saying, "looked at your profile and think we could be a great match." I'm subtle but I have found subtlety works.

Its different within a club environment. You see a guy giving you the eye repeatedly and that's often enough to confidently walk over, pinch his ear and whisper, "Have you been a naughty boy then?" Male subs in club environments are one of two things... Either right in your face with, "Mistress can I massage your feet" or they are so intimidated that they stand at the back like wallflowers never daring to approach anyone. Whilst the foot masseyrs may get to massage my feet, its the wallflowers that pull my attention.




FieryOpal -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 5:52:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: InHisHeart

Yes, there are ways to make one's interest known, I prefer the direct approach whether it's me approaching or him doing the approaching. By the direct approach, there are no mixed signals, no confusion wondering from either person if it's just flirting, if it's the way the person conducts themselves or there's a genuine interest in seeing if there's something more to be had.

I'm not suggesting crying over missed opportunities, I was curious if anyone thought back and wondered what might or might not have been, certainly not dwell on it.

I don't believe in forcing the issue, as I said previously if the other doesn't share a mutual interest, move on.

I'm not arguing with you or anyone on their way, I'm simply stating the direct approach has always been my way and it's worked out well for me.


It was shifty's reference to "missed opportunity" that I didn't quote separately, so the spilt milk was just a general observation, because we've all had regrets about the one(s) that got away. (I've twice caught the one who got away and ended up wishing later than I'd thrown him back and not looked back. :p)

For some people, those mixed signals can be a beeyotch, I can understand perfectly. I prefer men who are very perceptive, so part of my screening process is to see how a man responds to subtle cues, then dial it up until I can assess where his radar or sonar levels are operating at. (Hope that makes sense! It does to me.)

I think men have more to lose by forcing the issue and potentially scaring a woman off. Although men can get scared off, too.

I'm glad things have worked out for you. You seem very happy with your man, and I wish you both the best. [:)]



DaddySatyr -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 6:34:35 AM)


I got into a lot of trouble on this topic, two-three years ago. Apparently, when people around here disagree with an opinion, they like to make personal attacks (and, back in the day, some used to be able to involve the old set of moderators). But, I have to be true to my own self and someone is asking for an opinion so; here goes ...

There are quite a few people here that think and espouse the idea dominants have to prove themselves worthy to submissives; that they must "earn" respect and even, common courtesy. I believe that to be a little bit of crap.

While I understand that ultimately, it is the submissive who is giving up control and that they must proceed cautiously and slowly, I also believe that there's a certain degree of the submissive needing to "prove" (Gawd! I HATE that word in interpersonal relationships) themselves to the dominant. Why is your service a value to me?

While earlier on, it's not really germane (to me) whether the dominant or the submissive makes a "first move", I believe it is the submissive who should offer their service to the dominant. I believe the dominant's "job" is to live their life the best way they know how and to hope that a submissive will recognize that they comport themselves with loyalty, respect, honesty, and honor. To me, this is the only "proving" a dominant needs to do. They need to show that there's some reason a submissive should want to serve them.

I do not approach ladies (I'm interested in those that are submissive in nature); either here or in real life. In fact, if I've written you, here and said something about your profile or your journal or whatever, I probably don't have an interest in a partnership/relationship as I don't want my motives to be misconstrued.

I am well aware that this makes my "search" even more lethargic and arduous but, I am also well aware that when I do spend some time with a lady, it is usually very productive instead of a damned wrestling match.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?



crazyml -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 7:13:28 AM)

[ ED for grammar mistakes I spotted]

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

There are quite a few people here that think and espouse the idea dominants have to prove themselves worthy to submissives; that they must "earn" respect and even, common courtesy. I believe that to be a little bit of crap.


Hmm... that might come across as a teensy bit insulting to those that hold that belief.

I disagree with your point of view. I think that BOTH parties have to prove themselves worthy to the other party.

I think that the domly idea held by some of the ass-hats on the other side (and I'm not for a second suggesting that you're one of them) that says "I am UBER DOM I don't need to prove anything" really is a little bit of crap. In fact it's a big old pile of streaming runny crap.

If people are actually looking to form a functional relationship, there are bound to be a number of things, traits, qualities, etc that both parties need to demonstrate to the other.



ExiledTyrant -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 7:27:28 AM)

~FR cuz it's trendy

I am very specific in my profile, which I've suppressed cuz I'm quite focused on someone, because I am not looking for the next failure to come along. I don't actively swim the ocean on the other side looking for a hapless victim, because I'm looking for the long haul. I could pour over profiles day in and day out and roll the dice that I'm not within her filter or that one or many points of my profile make us incompatible, but the greatest odds of my success will stem from forthright and blatant honesty, "This is the shit you're signing up for." So the whole "D makes the first move" is an antiquated and self defeating notion.

When you see a shot at your happy and don't take it, it just sucks to be you.



xxxo -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 7:38:12 AM)

> I disagree with your point of view. I think that BOTH parties have to prove themselves worthy to the other party.

I disagree with that. :) If someone comes to your profile and wants to talk to *you* they need to prove they're not a waste of *your* time, especially if you're the dominant.

I've tried reaching out to a few subs unsuccessfully. It could be argued that as a 'dominant' personality you should be the initiator/aggressor, however, I think in order for you to be dominant, subs need to come to you and 'kiss the ring' so to speak. If you reach out to someone as a domme you've already lost your bargaining power because you've shown interest. I'm sure there's situations where reaching out as a domme could work and that this does work for some people. It doesn't seem to work for me though.



DaddySatyr -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 7:38:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

[ ED for grammar mistakes I spotted]

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

There are quite a few people here that think and espouse the idea dominants have to prove themselves worthy to submissives; that they must "earn" respect and even, common courtesy. I believe that to be a little bit of crap.


Hmm... that might come across as a teensy bit insulting to those that hold that belief.


I forgot that members of the group think need to be coddled a bit but, suffice it to say; I was referring to my belief about that kind of thinking; specifically about having to earn respect or common courtesy. I didn't state it as a fact or express any "one twue wayism".

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I disagree with your point of view. I think that BOTH parties have to prove themselves worthy to the other party.

I think that the domly idea held by some of the ass-hats on the other side (and I'm not for a second suggesting that you're one of them) that says "I am UBER DOM I don't need to prove anything" really is a little bit of crap. In fact it's a big old pile of streaming runny crap.


Well, then, I guess it's a good thing that I included:

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr




While earlier on, it's not really germane (to me) whether the dominant or the submissive makes a "first move", I believe it is the submissive who should offer their service to the dominant. I believe the dominant's "job" is to live their life the best way they know how and to hope that a submissive will recognize that they comport themselves with loyalty, respect, honesty, and honor. To me, this is the only "proving" a dominant needs to do. They need to show that there's some reason a submissive should want to serve them.




Which, for some reason (I am not suggesting is the least bit nefarious in that you would selectively quote something of mine to imply that I think something I specifically don't) you chose not to include. I guess It's not about being uber-dom and I do acknowledge that there is some "proving" going on by the dominant.



quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

If people are actually looking to form a functional relationship, there are bound to be a number of things, traits, qualities, etc that both parties need to demonstrate to the other.


Please see my highlighted, formerly omitted (by you), quote above.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?



crazyml -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 7:49:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

[ ED for grammar mistakes I spotted]

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

There are quite a few people here that think and espouse the idea dominants have to prove themselves worthy to submissives; that they must "earn" respect and even, common courtesy. I believe that to be a little bit of crap.


Hmm... that might come across as a teensy bit insulting to those that hold that belief.


I forgot that members of the group think need to be coddled a bit but, suffice it to say; I was referring to my belief about that kind of thinking; specifically about having to earn respect or common courtesy. I didn't state it as a fact or express any "one twue wayism".


So now you're making an assertion that there are people here that are subject to group think?

And yet you object to people making personal remarks about your views?

I'm curious - does that seem ok to you?

As for the rest of the post... I am still pretty sure I disagree with you. Which is ok by the way....



DaddySatyr -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 7:53:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

So now you're making an assertion that there are people here that are subject to group think?



I think we BOTH know that there are people here that are embroiled in group-think. I believe you, yourself, once had to acknowledge that you had been group-think(ed) out of a "position" on this site. Hell, you even used the word "clique" in your public apology to me (for which I give you credit even though you once asked an insulting question and when I answered it and turned it around on you, you became "mute").







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?



crazyml -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 7:54:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xxxo

> I disagree with your point of view. I think that BOTH parties have to prove themselves worthy to the other party.

I disagree with that. :) If someone comes to your profile and wants to talk to *you* they need to prove they're not a waste of *your* time, especially if you're the dominant.

I've tried reaching out to a few subs unsuccessfully. It could be argued that as a 'dominant' personality you should be the initiator/aggressor, however, I think in order for you to be dominant, subs need to come to you and 'kiss the ring' so to speak. If you reach out to someone as a domme you've already lost your bargaining power because you've shown interest. I'm sure there's situations where reaching out as a domme could work and that this does work for some people. It doesn't seem to work for me though.


And fair play to you for demonstrating how it is possible to disagree with someone without coming across like a whiny stain!

Obviously, I disagree in return, but fucking hell - if we were all the same in our preferences and expectations, life would suck



crazyml -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 8:01:58 AM)

No I didn't make a reference to being group thinked, I made reference to a clique.

I have no fucking idea, nor do I particularly care, about the "insulting" question I once asked. I am willing to bet that my lack of response would have been down to forgetting about the thread, missing your post or (perhaps most likely) simply not caring enough about you or your feelings to respond to you.

I made an observation that stating that you believed someone's views to be " a little bit of crap" could, very very reasonably be perceived as insulting, and then you throw out "group think".

I am trying to help you understand why you sometimes seem to offend people. You don't offend me as it happens, because I don't care about you or what you think, but it is sometimes very entertaining to watch.




DaddySatyr -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 8:07:16 AM)


... and cliques don't indulge in "group-think"? While you find what you perceive as my being insulting as "entertainment". I think your tap-dancing skills are top-notch. You're a fuckin' hoot!

Your non-answer to the mirror image of the question you asked me actually went to show that your logic was flawed. That's why you didn't answer; because it would have meant having to admit that you hadn't thought your position out to the logical conclusion.

Bless your heart.







Screen captures still RULE! Ya feel me?



crazyml -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 8:15:42 AM)

Well it was obviously far far far more important to you than it was to me, because I haven't the faintest idea of, or interest in, this magical question you're babbling about.



FieryOpal -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 12:44:16 PM)

[>In reply to crazyml]
quote:

ORIGINAL: xxxo

> I disagree with your point of view. I think that BOTH parties have to prove themselves worthy to the other party.

I disagree with that. :) If someone comes to your profile and wants to talk to *you* they need to prove they're not a waste of *your* time, especially if you're the dominant.

I've tried reaching out to a few subs unsuccessfully. It could be argued that as a 'dominant' personality you should be the initiator/aggressor, however, I think in order for you to be dominant, subs need to come to you and 'kiss the ring' so to speak. If you reach out to someone as a domme you've already lost your bargaining power because you've shown interest. I'm sure there's situations where reaching out as a domme could work and that this does work for some people. It doesn't seem to work for me though.

As a Domme, believe me when I say I know how you feel. I'm sure that Doms encounter this as well, but may not be accustomed to experiencing subfever *mobbing* the way that we do in sheer numbers (given the disproportionate ratio of Domme:male sub practically everywhere). I also tend not to make the first move because there is no necessity to do so, even if I were so inclined. I don't have time to peruse profiles; I barely have time to keep up with my mailboxes. (If a sub has complied with his contact message containing my profile keywords, then even if he got routed into Bulk Mail, I will still acknowledge his efforts as a courtesy.) The point I'm getting to is that it isn't uncommon for us Dommes to have to weed through a bunch of riff-raff (men unsuitable for entering into a D/s relationship commitment with, many of whom are only looking to get their freak on indiscriminately), and so in order to catch our interest, a sub really does have to distinguish himself above the others.

In real life, I haven't run across a sub I felt any sort of attraction for or non-platonic interest in *bummer*, so the occasion hasn't arisen yet where I would approach a sub. Regardless, I would expect any man to have manners and try to impress me, just as I would be wanting to make a good impression on him. I do have to agree with crazyml that it is up to both interested parties to "prove" their trustworthiness one to the other, and that by so doing, we show sincere and honorable intent.



SeekingTrinity -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 7:38:51 PM)

~FRing it~

I think I have a problem with the idea of people needing to prove themselves worthy to each other. It's kind of like saying that each person is viewed as worthless coming into it until proven otherwise. Figuring out if you are compatible, that you can trust each other, that you are on the same page as far as what each person is looking for/needing out of the connection...these things Im all for.

But then again, this could be Captain Morgan talking [:)]



DesFIP -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 7:40:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


There are quite a few people here that think and espouse the idea dominants have to prove themselves worthy to submissives; that they must "earn" respect and even, common courtesy. I believe that to be a little bit of crap.

While I understand that ultimately, it is the submissive who is giving up control and that they must proceed cautiously and slowly, I also believe that there's a certain degree of the submissive needing to "prove" (Gawd! I HATE that word in interpersonal relationships) themselves to the dominant. Why is your service a value to me?



[/color]


You don't feel that you need to prove yourself, that she should take you on blind faith but you don't have to take her like that? I think both parties must demonstrate that they are worthwhile people. Because there are a hell of a lot of damned fools out there that no one of sense should get involved with.



FieryOpal -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/20/2014 8:30:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SeekingTrinity

I think I have a problem with the idea of people needing to prove themselves worthy to each other. It's kind of like saying that each person is viewed as worthless coming into it until proven otherwise. Figuring out if you are compatible, that you can trust each other, that you are on the same page as far as what each person is looking for/needing out of the connection...these things Im all for.


Definitely compatibility is paramount, and sharing the same kinds of values and having similar goals would go with being on the same page.

As to worthiness, that's why I phrased it as "trustworthiness." While you may not have to *prove* you are a person worthy of consideration aside from suitability as a partner, in a purely subjective sense, trustworthiness is critical. So yes, I did intend to make that distinction (and I think crazyml meant "worthy" in this sense also, or else integral to establishing trust).



MariaB -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/21/2014 2:32:42 AM)

I think the mistake a lot of people make is, they base too much on kink compatibility. If all they ever wanted was a play partner then that's fine but for a long term relationship, kink dynamic has never been at the top of my list. I know, I know... its more important to some than it is for others. I say, even if you live it 24/7 you still need to be able to enjoy each others company on an intellectual level.

Many of the flailing relationships we see within this lifestyle would never of come about in a nilla environment. When people get together purely based on Dom/sub suitability and when entire relationships are based on kink related ideologies they are far more likely to fail in the long run than ones that are run on overall suitability.

It really doesn't matter if the sub man/woman/human chases the dominant man/woman/human or all that in reverse. There are no set rules, none of it makes us more dominant or less submissive. I hate all this nonsense of trying to prove your more dominant because you do things 'properly'[8|] It looks so ridiculously game like. People need to chill and just do what they find works best for them.



DerangedUnit -> RE: Culturally, do you feel the need to reverse roles, when reversing roles? (9/21/2014 2:57:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB

I think the mistake a lot of people make is, they base too much on kink compatibility. If all they ever wanted was a play partner then that's fine but for a long term relationship, kink dynamic has never been at the top of my list. I know, I know... its more important to some than it is for others. I say, even if you live it 24/7 you still need to be able to enjoy each others company on an intellectual level.

Many of the flailing relationships we see within this lifestyle would never of come about in a nilla environment. When people get together purely based on Dom/sub suitability and when entire relationships are based on kink related ideologies they are far more likely to fail in the long run than ones that are run on overall suitability.

It really doesn't matter if the sub man/woman/human chases the dominant man/woman/human or all that in reverse. There are no set rules, none of it makes us more dominant or less submissive. I hate all this nonsense of trying to prove your more dominant because you do things 'properly'[8|] It looks so ridiculously game like. People need to chill and just do what they find works best for them.


hear hear



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