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California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 9/30/2014 9:38:49 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline 		News today from California, where our Governor signed a law that will allow family members to petition a judge to temporarily confiscate firearms from mentally ill family members. I tend to be supportive of laws that provide tools for the families of people impacted by serious mental illness, so I'm going to hope this is used wisely.

Along the way though, a much denied cat seems to have escaped from the bag.

http://www.pacbiztimes.com/2014/09/30/governor-signs-gun-bills-introduced-after-isla-vista-mass-shooting/

Whenever the subject of background checks comes up, you will find defenders of the 2nd Amendment saying that the checks will become a database of gun owners, and then the gundiots all come out to call the first group names.

Well, it seems the law requires police departments to go check the database that doesn't exist, before they go out to do the welfare check on the person being reported.

Oops.



< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 9/30/2014 9:40:49 PM >

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 9/30/2014 10:11:36 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

News today from California, where our Governor signed a law that will allow family members to petition a judge to temporarily confiscate firearms from mentally ill family members. I tend to be supportive of laws that provide tools for the families of people impacted by serious mental illness, so I'm going to hope this is used wisely.

Along the way though, a much denied cat seems to have escaped from the bag.

http://www.pacbiztimes.com/2014/09/30/governor-signs-gun-bills-introduced-after-isla-vista-mass-shooting/

Whenever the subject of background checks comes up, you will find defenders of the 2nd Amendment saying that the checks will become a database of gun owners, and then the gundiots all come out to call the first group names.

Well, it seems the law requires police departments to go check the database that doesn't exist, before they go out to do the welfare check on the person being reported.

Oops.



Ok so they lied to us about the data base (or the law is unenforceable) but just because they lied doesn't mean we can't trust them to protect our rights. After all lying is ok if it saves one life, right?
That is what you are saying isn't it?

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People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 4:59:37 AM   
thompsonx


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ORIGINAL: BamaD
but just because they lied doesn't mean we can't trust them to protect our rights. After all lying is ok if it saves one life, right?
That is what you are saying isn't it?


You seem to be saying that while you were in the military you were unreliable as a member of the possie that is suppose to protect us? Perhaps, based on your ignorance we ought to disband the army navy and air farce since you do not feel that they are trustworthy?

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 7:08:24 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		That DOJ system is actually NICS, and we have had that for a while. Unfortunately, there is no funding for states to keep up with the system, so that those with mental issues or domestic violence issues are relieved of their guns.

The inquiries may or may not start an inquiry to the state BCA or whatever. This is old news, and a long standing tradition.

St. Wrinklemeat, first gun restriction law in California, and champion of the Brady bill. There lies California's state level gun database system, not a federal deal, but a states rights issue.

So, again, it isn't the federal government causing you great amounts of shit, it is your own state government who is enslaving you. But that is a right given to the states.




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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 4:17:25 PM   
joether


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Status: offline 		Still....anyone here wish to argue that allowing the mentally/emotionally compromised to have easy access to firearms is a good thing? The system will get corrected as time goes forward. The bugs will get worked out of the system to find a policy and process that works for the citizens. Keeping firearms from those individuals suffering severe problems and under a doctor/psychologist's care is better handled without firearms being so easily accessed.

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 4:43:43 PM   
PyrotheClown


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Still....anyone here wish to argue that allowing the mentally/emotionally compromised to have easy access to firearms is a good thing? The system will get corrected as time goes forward. The bugs will get worked out of the system to find a policy and process that works for the citizens. Keeping firearms from those individuals suffering severe problems and under a doctor/psychologist's care is better handled without firearms being so easily accessed.

You'd have to be crazy to find any fault with this kind of logic....I'm sure some fellows are bout to "explain"to us how it's all horrible and wrong,or they'll just post some sophmoric quib...

(in reply to joether)
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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 4:51:11 PM   
PeonForHer


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Status: offline 		I hope this doesn't reduce the number of guns around. Guns are lovely! Shooty, bangy, big metally guns. Bang! Bullets, blood and freedom. Lovely!

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 4:51:42 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown


quote:

ORIGINAL: joether

Still....anyone here wish to argue that allowing the mentally/emotionally compromised to have easy access to firearms is a good thing? The system will get corrected as time goes forward. The bugs will get worked out of the system to find a policy and process that works for the citizens. Keeping firearms from those individuals suffering severe problems and under a doctor/psychologist's care is better handled without firearms being so easily accessed.

You'd have to be crazy to find any fault with this kind of logic....I'm sure some fellows are bout to "explain"to us how it's all horrible and wrong,or they'll just post some sophmoric quib...

They lied to us about the database so we should trust them to make every thing ok and not violate anyone's rights, sure.
Why not just issue a search warrant based on the statement?
That would allow them to look for more and better signs of problems than just guns.
The goal is great, the gunaphobic approach is not.
The problem here is not the goal, I don't think anyone will argue with that.
The fact that they will used a database that allegedly doesn't exist is.
If their intentions are so honorable why did they lie to us?

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 4:57:45 PM   
PeonForHer


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quote:

gundiots


I do like that term. Anyone who thinks that guns are important and that people should love them. I don't agree with much that you say, TH, but well done for that term, anyway.

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 5:16:13 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

gundiots


I do like that term. Anyone who thinks that guns are important and that people should love them. I don't agree with much that you say, TH, but well done for that term, anyway.

He uses it as I use gunaphobics, but his allows misinterpretation.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to PeonForHer)
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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 5:34:05 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		'Gunaphobics'. Nope, it's much better used for those cretins who think owning guns is important. What he 'allows' doesn't matter, of course. Henceforth, 'gundiot' describes any peabrain who thinks owning guns is important. That's settled.

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 5:50:35 PM   
BamaD


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'Gunaphobics'. Nope, it's much better used for those cretins who think owning guns is important. What he 'allows' doesn't matter, of course. Henceforth, 'gundiot' describes any peabrain who thinks owning guns is important. That's settled.

Only in the minds of gunaphobics, your declaring it to be settled doesn't make it so. The point of this thread is not the intent, it is the lie. Do you approve of the lie or are you going to continue pretending that we don't like the intent?

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 6:04:58 PM   
PeonForHer


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Joined: 9/27/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'Gunaphobics'. Nope, it's much better used for those cretins who think owning guns is important. What he 'allows' doesn't matter, of course. Henceforth, 'gundiot' describes any peabrain who thinks owning guns is important. That's settled.

Only in the minds of gunaphobics, your declaring it to be settled doesn't make it so. The point of this thread is not the intent, it is the lie. Do you approve of the lie or are you going to continue pretending that we don't like the intent?


Yes, it's settled. I don't care about your question because it's only important to gundiots.

Can't we put gun threads in 'Off Topic', or something? Let's face it, guns aren't a political or religious question to anybody outside of the USA. Even inside of it, gun ownership only seems to be important to a few people who are out on the extreme.

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 6:40:42 PM   
BamaD


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Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

'Gunaphobics'. Nope, it's much better used for those cretins who think owning guns is important. What he 'allows' doesn't matter, of course. Henceforth, 'gundiot' describes any peabrain who thinks owning guns is important. That's settled.

Only in the minds of gunaphobics, your declaring it to be settled doesn't make it so. The point of this thread is not the intent, it is the lie. Do you approve of the lie or are you going to continue pretending that we don't like the intent?


Yes, it's settled. I don't care about your question because it's only important to gundiots.

Can't we put gun threads in 'Off Topic', or something? Let's face it, guns aren't a political or religious question to anybody outside of the USA. Even inside of it, gun ownership only seems to be important to a few people who are out on the extreme.

Have you been taking lessons from Ken? You are totally wrong on all counts.
Since the hysteria after Sandy Hook ended the majority here oppose more gun control.
And once again I don't care how they do it in Merry Old England.
If you find it so boring stay away from these threads, that's what I do with boring subjects.

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Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 6:55:52 PM   
lovmuffin


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Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

gundiots


I do like that term. Anyone who thinks that guns are important and that people should love them. I don't agree with much that you say, TH, but well done for that term, anyway.


Gunidiot is a term, originated by the OP, for those who run off their mouths talking a about guns when in fact they don't know what they're talking about. Generally they favor some sort of irrational gun control schemes.

Try all you want to change it but the definition has already been established


< Message edited by lovmuffin -- 10/1/2014 6:57:40 PM >

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 6:58:06 PM   
Lucylastic


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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 6:59:14 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

gundiots


I do like that term. Anyone who thinks that guns are important and that people should love them. I don't agree with much that you say, TH, but well done for that term, anyway.


Gunidiot is a term, originated by the OP, for those who run off their mouths talking a about guns when in fact they don't know what they're talking about. Generally they favor some sort of irrational gun control schemes.

Try all you want to change it but the definition has already been established


You could say it is a settled fact.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 7:22:03 PM   
dcnovice


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quote:

Guns are lovely! Shooty, bangy, big metally guns. Bang! Bullets, blood and freedom. Lovely!

And they're cheaper than red sports cars.

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 7:27:12 PM   
joether


Posts: 5195
Joined: 7/24/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
quote:

ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown
quote:

ORIGINAL: joether
Still....anyone here wish to argue that allowing the mentally/emotionally compromised to have easy access to firearms is a good thing? The system will get corrected as time goes forward. The bugs will get worked out of the system to find a policy and process that works for the citizens. Keeping firearms from those individuals suffering severe problems and under a doctor/psychologist's care is better handled without firearms being so easily accessed.

You'd have to be crazy to find any fault with this kind of logic....I'm sure some fellows are bout to "explain"to us how it's all horrible and wrong,or they'll just post some sophmoric quib...

They lied to us about the database so we should trust them to make every thing ok and not violate anyone's rights, sure.


It sounds from the article that there is such a database. But that its not being used as originally intended means something about it has to be reworked. This could be the system itself, or how it is accessed. It may take some honest research to determine all the possible problems and advise lawmakers on possible solutions.

What exactly in this database is lie? You do not coherently explain that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Why not just issue a search warrant based on the statement?


A search warrant is issued due to 'probable cause' found under the 4th amendment. A mother contacting law enforcement to check on her son that she is worried about, is not directing police to a possible crime. Instead its asking the police to do a reasonable investigation on the assumption no laws have been broken, but to check on the welfare of the person. Using a database that explains this individual had one or more firearms, is 'ill' in some manner (according to police) might have led them to check everything more carefully. I can tell you from personal experience, BamaD, that firearms with Depression is a recipe for disaster.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
That would allow them to look for more and better signs of problems than just guns.


Police officers are not trained mental/emotional health professionals. While their profession does involve a fair amount of psychology, its with handling the issues....NOT...treating them. If the police thought this person was a danger to himself or others, they could have taken him in. The firearms would not be an issue, unless the person mentioned them specifically. Law enforcement can already do that, BamaD.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
The goal is great, the gunaphobic approach is not.
The problem here is not the goal, I don't think anyone will argue with that.
The fact that they will used a database that allegedly doesn't exist is.
If their intentions are so honorable why did they lie to us?


'Gunphobia'? The word your looking for is Hoplophobia (an fear of weapons). Technically, its not an actual phobia.

As I stated, there does seem to be a database, so I am left wondering what your arguing here exactly? That they 'lie', but no information is present to show how, where, when, 'they', lied. How is it we both read the same article, but arrive at opposite viewpoints?

4th paragraph of the article: "Jackson's bill requires law-enforcement agencies to develop polices encouraging officers to conduct a search of the Department of Justice's Automated Firearms System, California's database of gun purchases, before conducting a "welfare check" on a person who is potentially a danger to themselves or others, she said.

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RE: California's newest gun law comes with an admission - 10/1/2014 7:39:14 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dcnovice

quote:

Guns are lovely! Shooty, bangy, big metally guns. Bang! Bullets, blood and freedom. Lovely!

And they're cheaper than red sports cars.


Excellent point

_____________________________

"Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world." Unknown

"Long hair, short hair—what's the difference once the head's blowed off." - Farmer Yassir

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