quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

So exactly why do You choose a submissive or slave.

Just exactly what gets the juices running to which You think ... "I MUST have this one" ???

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

Its refreshing to learn there is more to a sub male than pure physical appearance. Although I suspect You would take advantage of that when it presented itself.

Yet You would want something more for the longer term.

Sometimes traits like: integrity, self esteem, the openness to trust, and the desire to be devoted; are hard won thru the battles of life. No?
<snip>

quote:

ORIGINAL: seekingOwnertoo

To all Dommes, i apologize for asking. But given all the ??? on this thread, it seems to be a real question.

So exactly why do You choose a submissive or slave.

Just exactly what gets the juices running to which You think ... "I MUST have this one" ???


Please do share.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I tend to agree that the question was poorly put... and too vague.

But it implies a question that interests me as well. I have always felt that, in general, the social formula tends to run to women favoring men who are strong in character, if not in body.

Particularly for Lifestyle Dommes... I have always wondered what the appeal of a submissive man was to a Dominant woman. In vanilla relationships, women will often lose respect for a man who is not confident and assertive. How does this play out in Female dominant relationships?

Still a vagueish and complicated question, I know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

So to answer your question, there is no loss of respect for the male partner in an FLR because he is not submissive to others, but only to his Head-of-Household Wife by deferring to her authority. He is her champion, and the knight to her Queen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I tend to agree that the question was poorly put... and too vague.

But it implies a question that interests me as well. I have always felt that, in general, the social formula tends to run to women favoring men who are strong in character, if not in body.

Particularly for Lifestyle Dommes... I have always wondered what the appeal of a submissive man was to a Dominant woman. In vanilla relationships, women will often lose respect for a man who is not confident and assertive. How does this play out in Female dominant relationships?

Still a vagueish and complicated question, I know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

So, in that instance, the male is not - in fact - submissive by nature?

I can understand that though, as my own sub is not particularly submissive in her day to day life with others... but that does cause its own problems. It is difficult to be assertive all day with the world, and then suddenly turn on the submission for your Master/Mistress - at least it sometimes seems so in my experience.

I also think the issues of respect can still be issues when there are only two people, regardless of how the outside world is approached. I know that in my own relationship the issue of respect comes to my mind from time to time when I compare our total power exchange (essentially) relationship with deep seated and unavoidable social programming. I want her submission and her obedience, but I also do not want to lose respect for her as an individual. It can be a dance sometimes, that requires careful thought and orchestration. At least some of that social programming includes a traditional role of women as submissive to men. That is why I am curious how it works when the roles are reversed, and traditional social programming would seem to make the dynamic more difficult to navigate.

With regard to your definition of FLR... what of men who ARE naturally submissive. Who are deferential and not assertive in their dealings with the world. Would they be unappealing to women in a female led relationship?

quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

If by submissive, you are contending that a sub cannot be submissive by nature if s/he does not display a submissive temperament in his or her public persona as well as in private, then I think you will find many submissives who will disagree with that.

quote:


Numerous submissives hold positions of authority and responsibility in managing others and express relief that they can come home and be "themselves" at the end of the day. There are take-charge personalities who may be Dominant, but they could also be submissive. Having the capacity or potential to fill divergent roles or to wear many hats is not a reflection of being on one side of the fence or the other (or of choosing to straddle the fence as a S/switch).

quote:


I'd also like to make the point that F/m is not a role reversal. It can be if both parties elect to swap conventional male-female roles. Dommes are not trying to emulate males, and we are fully women, those of us who were born cis female. By virtue of being in an FLR, the Dominant woman in charge and in control of the relationship is not the breadwinner by default supporting her male stay-at-"wife." That would be a domestic situation which is unique to the couple, to any couple, if they were to decide upon this kind of arrangement. I have a German scientist friend who is 3rd generation FLR, and in none of those households did the wife swap roles with the husband and assume the husband's role. This is fallacy of thinking, that equates Dominance with masculinity and submission with femininity. A woman doesn't have to act masculine in order to exert her Dominance. There is a natural feminine Dominance interwoven within the fabric of most societies which do not practice patriarchal oppression, those which do not suppress feminine power and turn it into a manipulative force instead.

quote:


To tell you the truth, I don't really understand submission besides what I observe in submissive behavior, and you are asking about the entire human race here and its everyday dealings. Most of the population is not Dominant, just as most people are not of a leadership bent. If they were, then who would they be leading other than one another?

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As for whether a submissive male in both his public and private modalities would be unappealing to an FLR-oriented Domme, this would depend upon the Domme. Some of us want our male partner to act masculine while conducting himself like a gentleman, such as myself, my Domme cousin, and my lifestyle Domme friends. I can't speak for other FLR Dommes and the type of submissive male they would prefer, as this would be an individual preference.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

Unfortunately, our friend Bhruic (like a few others) cannot wrap their heads around a Dom/sub dynamic without deference to typical gender roles; that's why they, and others, can't grasp the concept without also changing the patriarchal roles elsewhere.
To them, the two activities are inextricably intertwined, not separate entities.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I tend to agree that the question was poorly put... and too vague.

But it implies a question that interests me as well. I have always felt that, in general, the social formula tends to run to women favoring men who are strong in character, if not in body.

Particularly for Lifestyle Dommes... I have always wondered what the appeal of a submissive man was to a Dominant woman. In vanilla relationships, women will often lose respect for a man who is not confident and assertive. How does this play out in Female dominant relationships?

Still a vagueish and complicated question, I know.

I really thrive on being able to delegate most decisions within the dynamic. Two of my three best friends are extremely type A and not even they could put a handle on me. I really am of the feeling that the only man who can handle me is submissive.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic
The tone of your reply seems to suggest that you, however, are immune to social programming, and incapable of perceiving gender stereotypes... making it possible for you to understand Dom/sub dynamics in the context of a vacuum? If so, your description of the Dom/sub dynamic would be very interesting to hear.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

I find that hard to understand. It sounds like you are saying you want your submissive to make all the decisions... is that right? It sounds like he is submitting to your desire that he take the dominant role.

If I am misunderstanding you, please explain further.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

When I was young, my parents taught me to do all of the 'womanly' things that most males shun; like cooking, cleaning, needle craft, sewing, knitting, making clothes, laundry, housework etc etc. I didn't find it demeaning at all and I certainly valued their teachings as I got older and found my way into the big wide world where I had to fend for myself.

I have never viewed tasks as 'woman's work' or a man's job. That concept just didn't exist in my world.
So I don't look at the world as anything gender-specific other than women have tits and pussy whereas guys have dicks (and often behave like them too!).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

quote:

ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1

When I was young, my parents taught me to do all of the 'womanly' things that most males shun; like cooking, cleaning, needle craft, sewing, knitting, making clothes, laundry, housework etc etc. I didn't find it demeaning at all and I certainly valued their teachings as I got older and found my way into the big wide world where I had to fend for myself.

I have never viewed tasks as 'woman's work' or a man's job. That concept just didn't exist in my world.
So I don't look at the world as anything gender-specific other than women have tits and pussy whereas guys have dicks (and often behave like them too!).

And yet you did just identify those things as "womanly things"... and used them to illustrate your understanding of the traditional gender roles you have never followed. Your description of them is simplistic, but your position is admirable. I imagine most people still have to struggle to overcome ingrained and subconscious social programming.

You seem to be under the misapprehension that I am a champion of traditional gender roles, I am not.

I am merely asking; If a Dominant woman is attracted to a man who is demure, deferential and generally submissive in his day to day life, what is it about that dynamic that is attractive to her. It is not a dynamic I personally identify with, so I am naturally curious to know. I am sure there are some submissive men who would be curious to know also.

There is no stance on traditional gender roles inherent in that question, and any outrage at my presumption in asking it is misguided, and frankly seems, to me, a little telling.