Relying on unquestioned disclosure

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CaptR -> Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/13/2014 8:16:51 AM)
My apologies if this subject has been covered in the past but a discussion in another post has me wondering. How many people seeking prospective play partners/ mates, etc. rely on the action of the other person to voluntarily disclose information instead of looking out after their own health and well being by asking questions on what they feel are important issues to them? I'll use stds as an example. I don't have any and it's important to me I keep that status. Personally I feel it's incumbent upon me to ask "Hey, do you have any stds or health issues I should be aware of?" If I want to be proactive in my own and their protection I don't see it as being unreasonable to ask. Admittedly, getting an honest answer is a crapshoot because then we have to rely on the integrity of that person which is a scary reality with or without testing. Be it in person or online I have always addressed the subjects that are important to me with a prospective partner prior to committing to gauge compatibility, health and safety concerns by asking questions. Honestly I view it as being irresponsible to not do so. Thoughts please.

InHisHeart -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/13/2014 9:40:40 AM)
I tell a prospective partner anything that might affect him, our play, our relationship whether it be something physical, medical, psychological. I also ask whatever I feel I need to know of him. I've always been std clean and plan on remaining that way, the same with Master. We both told each other we were clean and neither one of us had a problem getting tested and showing each other the results before we even met in-person. We also did not keep our sexual history or relationship history a secret from each other or anything that could affect the other or our relationship. I feel it's my responsibility to be informed so I can be as safe as possible, that to me means asking and verifying.

Spiritedsub2 -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/13/2014 10:52:59 AM)
I trust verbal disclosure because I don't sleep with anyone I can't trust to that extent. This was far less true in my dissolute youth, so I have much to be grateful for [:D]

MariaB -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/13/2014 11:58:08 AM)
I ask but I don't necessarily trust the answer. Like I said on the other thread, lots of people don't know they have something; some are too frightened to find out. Until I know for sure I don't get intimate. I wouldn't knowingly risk my own health without knowing I was risking it. That's not to say that if my partner had turned out to have genital herpes or even HIV, I would of given him the boot. I know most people would because for many people, STD's hold such an awful social stigma. Its about damaged goods carrying an infectious dirty disease and this is exactly why people hold back about coming forward [&:] Because I look at things differently than a lot of people, it was hinted (on the other thread) that I take unnecessary risks. I don't but I also don't see someone's STD status an indicator of their moral or ethical shortcomings. As long as I fully understood the necessary precautions then I like to think I would of continued into the loving relationship I'm now in. Its actually quite alarming to think I could of given him up if he had, had an STD.

smileforme50 -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/13/2014 1:46:11 PM)
I have epilepsy....and while it is very controlled (haven't had a seizure in over. 7 years). I am still very up front about it. Even though I know the chances of my having a seizure during play are nil, I still want people to know about it "just in case" and also because I know that some people don't understand epilepsy and have misconceptions about it.... And I need to know if it bothers them too much before I go very far with them. It's also my chance to educate someone who doesn't understand.

DesFIP -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/13/2014 2:23:27 PM)
Re stds, I recommend that they both get tested and share results. If it isn't on letterhead from the doctor's office, I wouldn't trust it. Just because someone says something, doesn't mean they are honest, or that they really know. Re other medical problems, I disclosed. I didn't wait for him to ask. We both had that conversation, nobody had to do any pulling of teeth from a reluctant partner. For me, that's important. If you aren't comfortable talking about it, then I wouldn't believe you had sufficiently dealt with it either. But that's my attitude about sex, if you can't talk about it, you shouldn't do it.

Greta75 -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/13/2014 8:57:08 PM)
I personally think it's silly to ask if someone has STD. As no matter what he says, I won't believe him. If the relationship got series and sleeveless happens, then, I think an official testing is required.

Mistycalm -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/13/2014 9:38:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I personally think it's silly to ask if someone has STD. As no matter what he says, I won't believe him. If the relationship got series and sleeveless happens, then, I think an official testing is required. I have to agree. If asked, I would not believe them anyway without the paperwork to back it up. In addition, I am not going to have sex with someone unless I know their medical history; and sex is only going to happen if we know each other well enough.

CaptR -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 6:43:04 AM)
Thank you all for the input. As I addressed in my OP relying on the integrity of another is at best a crap shoot. For me asking would be a natural segue to the subject of testing as it's ultimately required. Stds were only an example. The question I'm asking and I guess I should be more precise is, during the initial "get to know you period" of a prospective play partner/ relationship do you ask questions regarding "deal breakers" in addition to relying on volunteered information which, may not be dispersed according to your timeline . It was suggested in the other thread not asking about what amounts to re "deal breakers" then getting upset when that info wasn't given according to their calendar was acceptable. I dunno, maybe I'm the only one who disagrees with this view. IMO if it's a hard limit for you and the info isn't volunteered you are obligated to ask/ let your position be known or you forfeit the right to be angry unless the other party blatantly or by purposeful omission lies putting you in harms way. We all suffer disappointments in life. It's part of the process but to get angry at someone over a question that wasn't asked is what's silly to me.

ResidentSadist -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 7:47:46 AM)
My slave had her cop friends run my history before she met with me in person... I respect a girl that does her homework. Due to our schedules (she worked weekends/I worked weekdays) and the 90 minute travel time between us, it meant our first date wasn't a casual coffee shop meet. We wanted to be intimate on our first date, so disclosure was important. She also came with a personal credibility in that she had long been a unicorn to a respected couple in the local BDSM community. In the past I have dated several people that I met online and flew in from out of state. Exchanging lab or medical reports and photos prior to meeting up is pretty much standard procedure. It's also nice when people that have a verifiable history in the community. It usually means they are who they say they are. But I don't require their pedigree, references, medical and criminal histories for a casual coffee shop date where we are just meeting up to decide if we want to be intimate.

CaptR -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 8:16:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist My slave had her cop friends run my history before she met with me in person... I respect a girl that does her homework. Due to our schedules (she worked weekends/I worked weekdays) and the 90 minute travel time between us, it meant our first date wasn't a casual coffee shop meet. We wanted to be intimate on our first date, so disclosure was important. She also came with a personal credibility in that she had long been a unicorn to a respected couple in the local BDSM community. In the past I have dated several people that I met online and flew in from out of state. Exchanging lab or medical reports and photos prior to meeting up is pretty much standard procedure. It's also nice when people that have a verifiable history in the community. It usually means they are who they say they are. But I don't require their pedigree, references, medical and criminal histories for a casual coffee shop date where we are just meeting up to decide if we want to be intimate. Reading the first couple of paragraphs suggests that you do at some point in the process gather information that's important to you. If during that coffee and the decision to become intimate she relays information that is contrary to one of your limits, guidelines, whatever, would you feel you had a right to be angry with her or would you reflect on your failure to ask about it before hand?

DesFIP -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 10:06:42 AM)
It's foolish to get angry. She may think it's no big deal, no different from a peanut allergy. You may find it a deal breaker. You going to be upset that she wasn't a mind reader?

CaptR -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 11:28:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP It's foolish to get angry. Careful... you just agreed with me .... Have a seat, a sip of water and take a deep breath. The dizziness will wear off soon :).

InHisHeart -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 12:42:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greta75 I personally think it's silly to ask if someone has STD. As no matter what he says, I won't believe him. If the relationship got series and sleeveless happens, then, I think an official testing is required. I agree that asking doesn't mean they're going to be honest and I wouldn't take his word for it without seeing the test results but I don't think it's silly to ask. For me how he handles being asked tells me a lot about him. If he gets pissed off that I asked or he isn't willing to disclose information, isn't willing to get tested, tells me I can just trust him and if he doesn't want to know the same of me, they would all be red flags. Not necessarily a red flag that he's trying to hide something although it would raise suspicions but a red flag that he's not open and comfortable enough to talk about personal issues and that would be a deal-breaker for me. Like RS and his slave, when Master and I met the first time in-person it wasn't a coffee or dinner date. We were long distance, made plans to spend the week together and knew we were going to be intimate from the get-go.

GoddessManko -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 1:14:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist My slave had her cop friends run my history before she met with me in person... I respect a girl that does her homework. Due to our schedules (she worked weekends/I worked weekdays) and the 90 minute travel time between us, it meant our first date wasn't a casual coffee shop meet. We wanted to be intimate on our first date, so disclosure was important. She also came with a personal credibility in that she had long been a unicorn to a respected couple in the local BDSM community. In the past I have dated several people that I met online and flew in from out of state. Exchanging lab or medical reports and photos prior to meeting up is pretty much standard procedure. It's also nice when people that have a verifiable history in the community. It usually means they are who they say they are. But I don't require their pedigree, references, medical and criminal histories for a casual coffee shop date where we are just meeting up to decide if we want to be intimate. What an awesome response and 100% agreed. I met the nicest guy who confided he had GH. I explained that I hadn't had many partners in my lifetime so it was never a question for me before and we discussed it, and honestly it made me really sad to have to let him go. Such an amazing guy and the way he did it too. "I don't want you to waste your time, chatting for months so I'm gonna tell you this upfront. This guy is christian, sweet, upfront and 100% honest, owns his own s***. I mean, he is NOT the typical man seriously. Not to mention he's super hot and yet so humble about compliments even though he's pretty much a walking Adonis. I told him I would love for us to be friends but I think he was so heartbroken I wouldn't give it a go (His ex contracted it from him, due to them "not being careful" according to him) that he halted communication entirely. I think we would have been epic friends but que sera... And someone this amazing has resigned himself to being alone forever (it's just not right!) which is why I think there should be alternatives for him to eliminate guesswork for meeting someone. I feel awful thinking about it. He is literally one of the best people I have ever met on top of ridiculous good looks Had it for 13 years though...

ResidentSadist -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 1:43:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaptR quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist My slave had her cop friends run my history before she met with me in person... I respect a girl that does her homework. Due to our schedules (she worked weekends/I worked weekdays) and the 90 minute travel time between us, it meant our first date wasn't a casual coffee shop meet. We wanted to be intimate on our first date, so disclosure was important. She also came with a personal credibility in that she had long been a unicorn to a respected couple in the local BDSM community. In the past I have dated several people that I met online and flew in from out of state. Exchanging lab or medical reports and photos prior to meeting up is pretty much standard procedure. It's also nice when people that have a verifiable history in the community. It usually means they are who they say they are. But I don't require their pedigree, references, medical and criminal histories for a casual coffee shop date where we are just meeting up to decide if we want to be intimate. Reading the first couple of paragraphs suggests that you do at some point in the process gather information that's important to you. If during that coffee and the decision to become intimate she relays information that is contrary to one of your limits, guidelines, whatever, would you feel you had a right to be angry with her or would you reflect on your failure to ask about it before hand? Information gathering for a coffee date is different than the information for planned intimate contact with someone far away. For a coffee date, we have to have common interests and I have to be attracted to their personality and their looks. So I don't require labs and pedigree for a coffee date. If there are issues that mean we won't be intimate, I would enjoy the things we could share, like friendship. Even if the issues mean there won't be a friendship, I would not be mad. I enjoy meeting people and respect that we both took time to open up and explore each other to conciser a relationship. So I would not consider it a failure to not have asked or change my criteria for making coffee dates. I enjoy coffee, people and good conversation during the exploring process.

CaptR -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 2:51:41 PM)
I'm in full agreement here too. Meeting is a time to share and discover just as is exploration of each other over the internet. To get upset over the discourse of sharing info in these stages is ridiculous.

FieryOpal -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 3:15:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaptR I'm in full agreement here too. Meeting is a time to share and discover just as is exploration of each other over the internet. To get upset over the discourse of sharing info in these stages is ridiculous. Everybody's different, and some people are more extroverted than others. I have as many friends as I want right now and don't need to be making more. Maybe next year, I'll have a change of heart. I used to not cam-verify. People frequently fudge their height, weight (in either direction) and age. Being slightly overweight doesn't bother me, but being skinny as a rail or looking like a twig that can be snapped in two easily? Hell, no. [8\|] (I hear stories from guys about meeting women in jogging suits who weigh at least 50 pounds more than they really are. Looks aren't everything, but flagrant misrepresentations speak volumes about lack of integrity and having a deceptive nature.) Trying to pass yourself off as 10 years younger than you actually are? Uncool. Barely coming up to my chin when you claim to be nearly a foot taller at 5'10"? I don't think so. [sm=2cents.gif] What else are you lying about if you're going to lie about such basic stats?

CaptR -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 4:39:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal quote: ORIGINAL: CaptR I'm in full agreement here too. Meeting is a time to share and discover just as is exploration of each other over the internet. To get upset over the discourse of sharing info in these stages is ridiculous. Everybody's different, and some people are more extroverted than others. I have as many friends as I want right now and don't need to be making more. Maybe next year, I'll have a change of heart. I used to not cam-verify. People frequently fudge their height, weight (in either direction) and age. Being slightly overweight doesn't bother me, but being skinny as a rail or looking like a twig that can be snapped in two easily? Hell, no. [8\|] (I hear stories from guys about meeting women in jogging suits who weigh at least 50 pounds more than they really are. Looks aren't everything, but flagrant misrepresentations speak volumes about lack of integrity and having a deceptive nature.) Trying to pass yourself off as 10 years younger than you actually are? Uncool. Barely coming up to my chin when you claim to be nearly a foot taller at 5'10"? I don't think so. [sm=2cents.gif] What else are you lying about if you're going to lie about such basic stats? I'm going to assume these are things someone had deceived you about in your past? That's regrettably how some people are and the very reason information gathering and verification with a mano a mano is important. Relying on someone to be 100% truthful is very sadly a set up to be disappointed at times. Up until proof positive is in hand or across the table we're never sure. What good does getting angry do? To resolve some of those issues before they become a problem I would suggest real time social media like Skype if you have that capability. You did get me thinking about our profile though. Last time I edited ages was two years ago and now that I'm looking at sixty (sadly 57 is a fond memory) on my horizon (still distant but within driving distance) ours should be changed. Well mine anyway, I know better than to adjust hers just yet

FieryOpal -> RE: Relying on unquestioned disclosure (10/14/2014 7:43:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CaptR I'm going to assume these are things someone had deceived you about in your past? That's regrettably how some people are and the very reason information gathering and verification with a mano a mano is important. Relying on someone to be 100% truthful is very sadly a set up to be disappointed at times. Up until proof positive is in hand or across the table we're never sure. What good does getting angry do? To resolve some of those issues before they become a problem I would suggest real time social media like Skype if you have that capability. You did get me thinking about our profile though. Last time I edited ages was two years ago and now that I'm looking at sixty (sadly 57 is a fond memory) on my horizon (still distant but within driving distance) ours should be changed. Well mine anyway, I know better than to adjust hers just yet Well, like what Greta was saying, she's not going to believe whether somebody tells her they don't have STDs. The same goes with marital status. Unless somebody is up front about being separated or (supposedly) in an open marriage, you just never know other than looking out for suspiciously timed behavior, unavailability and inaccessibility. (Btw, neither of these states counts to me as being [totally] unattached. Spouses can reconcile unexpectedly before finalizing their divorce; marital partners already own one another, whether they've made a poly arrangement between themselves, as far as I'm concerned.) Btw, those of you who have been on this site for years are fully aware that the data base for ages doesn't automatically update. Myself and others expect for ages here to be off if the profile isn't new. That can always be clarified on a person-to-person basis. Not just on this site, but on vanilla dating sites, many members post pics that aren't recent (older than 2 years, let's say, as in more like 4-5 years old; one sub I met had photos on his business website that were more than 10 years old!) or don't keep their pics current. As for Skyping, I ordinarily do not cam, other than for verification purposes, along with voice phone. I know someone who cam-verified a perfectly proportionate midget who appeared to be normal-sized, and it wasn't until he flew in to meet this lady that she discovered this fact. Yes, she should have perhaps had him get up and walk around, but surely he had the sense to know that this more than likely would be a deal breaker that he should have disclosed ahead of time, wouldn't you agree? [8D] And perhaps if he had, it wouldn't have been such an obstacle (or not an insurmountable one), but his lie by omission was the greater transgression.

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