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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/21/2014 3:12:24 PM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I think the point is, DS- although I can't speak for OP-

if he knows everything about her, should she not feel entitled to know at least a bit more about him.
Is it ok if she asks for more communication if she needs it or are subs expected to compromise on this all the time?

Exactly

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/21/2014 8:06:53 PM

DarkSteven

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Tell you what. Instead of the word 'equal' , let's use 'equitable' .

My issue is that the word 'equal' sounds like some contracts I've worked, in which there was tremendous arguing over the implications of that word. 'Equitable' simply means fair and just.

Let's say that I, a 58 year old Dom, start a relationship with a 20 year old sub. It would be reasonable to expect that I would disclose more than her simply because I have more available to disclose. Someone with serious physical conditions that affect his or her play and diet would have more to disclose. Etc.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/21/2014 9:03:40 PM

DesFIP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

I think the point is, DS- although I can't speak for OP-

if he knows everything about her, should she not feel entitled to know at least a bit more about him.
Is it ok if she asks for more communication if she needs it or are subs expected to compromise on this all the time?

I don't think all subs are entitled to this.

But if a particular sub knows he/she needs this, then it behooves them to say so and to refuse to enter into a relationship with someone who will not meet their needs.

Which makes me wonder why the op agreed to this in the first place.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/21/2014 10:41:07 PM

shiftyw

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Tell you what. Instead of the word 'equal' , let's use 'equitable' .

My issue is that the word 'equal' sounds like some contracts I've worked, in which there was tremendous arguing over the implications of that word. 'Equitable' simply means fair and just.

Let's say that I, a 58 year old Dom, start a relationship with a 20 year old sub. It would be reasonable to expect that I would disclose more than her simply because I have more available to disclose. Someone with serious physical conditions that affect his or her play and diet would have more to disclose. Etc.

I can agree with this.
I don't think any relationship is "equal" in this regard.

I also agree with Des- I was just more trying to get to the actual question at hand...which is..."Is it ok that I need this?"

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 2:25:36 AM

luxey2511

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i see what you mean now and thanks for clarifying that. i completely agree.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 7:58:56 AM

IrishMist

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Tell you what. Instead of the word 'equal' , let's use 'equitable' .

My issue is that the word 'equal' sounds like some contracts I've worked, in which there was tremendous arguing over the implications of that word. 'Equitable' simply means fair and just.

Let's say that I, a 58 year old Dom, start a relationship with a 20 year old sub. It would be reasonable to expect that I would disclose more than her simply because I have more available to disclose. Someone with serious physical conditions that affect his or her play and diet would have more to disclose. Etc.

Maybe I am coming at this from a different perspective.

I am looking at, I guess you would call it personal information. Not things like age, how many relationships, finances, etc. But more along the lines of dreams, wishes, goals, what a person hopes to accomplish with the relationship. Things of that nature.

If I am expected to share all those, then I expect that the other party would disclose the same. I don't feel that it would be asking too much.

Sorry if there was a miscommunication somewhere.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 9:53:37 AM

littleladybug

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I prefer that each one divulge what's best in the Dom's eyes, taking comfort and necessity into account. If the Dom's trusted with the relationship, he/she should be trusted with this as well.

While I respect that some people choose to proceed in their relationships like this, personally, I would have extreme difficulty going into a relationship where someone would divulge only what "he thought best". Been there, done that, and will not knowingly go into it again.

It was only *after* my Dom's death that I found out how truly sick he actually was. I have been torn about this issue-- because I know the reason why he didn't tell me. There was nothing that could be done, and it would only worry me. Part of me absolutely respects this decision, but the other, rather substantial, part feels betrayed by his actions (or lack thereof). I left him, two days before he died, thinking everything was fine...only to get a phone call at work two days later.

Of course, this is an extreme example, but it's also my reality. I have gone into other relationships pretty much setting this out from the get-go. If I find out that *something* important has been hidden, I don't see the relationship proceeding. Part of protecting me is giving me the information I need to come to grips with the reality of things. This has actually had some interesting results. I've run people away with it, and also had it go the other way, where I've gotten multiple page synopses of people's medical history. IMO, this also goes way further than medical issues though. Not to pick on you personally Steven (as you are not the first that I've heard this from) but, for me, I wonder about the foundation of a relationship where things are divulged, or not, at the sole whim of one of the parties.

If I am in an intimate relationship with someone, I *want* to know things, both good and bad. Sure, there's a time and a place for everything...(don't get me started on people who don't have a concept of this, and spew crap out at horrible times...). But, if someone would get mad at me for not saying something....I will hold them to the same standard. The "because I'm the Dom, that's why" response simply won't fly with me.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 10:02:55 AM

orgasmdenial12

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Lack of communication bothers me; it makes me anxious, paranoid and frustrated. A Dom doesn't have to share their thoughts and feelings but if they want to be *my* Dom, they do.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 10:08:20 AM

SlipSlidingAway

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I have talked to many dominants who seem rather aloof. They want you to be vulnerable to them, even need you to be, in order to dominate you. Really, without vulnerability being present, how can a power exchange exist?

A Dom that I recently spoke with said something along the lines of- if he divulged too much of himself, he felt it would give the submissive too much information and allow her to manipulate him, even if she did not intend to. She would try to finagle the situation to her advantage. That it is simply human nature. I do not know if I fully agree, but it has been food for thought on my part.

If that is true, I think that there needs to be some middle ground. Not far off from what Stephen was saying about the difference in equal and equitable...

I feel a deep need, in my relationships, to connect with my Dom on a deeper level. I don't want to just scratch the surface. I am, you might say, an intimacy junkie. It's part of why I am in this lifestyle, as I believe there is a potential here for intimacy between a man and a woman that simply does not exist anywhere in the vanilla world. So, I seek dominants that want that level of connection- that share the same ideology.

If they don't? I just chalk it up to incompatibility. I know I'd never be happy with a dominant who could not open up to me. Because, I need to be there for him, intellectually and spiritually, not just bodily. To me, part of surrender, is giving ALL of myself to him, and if he can't let me in enough to do that? It's a bad, bad match.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 10:08:45 AM

Greta75

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Born2BBound72
So do you feel that a Master/Dom should divulge as much about himself as he expects his sub/slave to divulge about herself?

For me, I will not trust a dom who does not divulge as much about himself as I do about myself with him. By those actions of him, I will deem him dodgy and untrustworthy. For me, it's a choice, I am a very open, candid and honest person, I will bare my soul to people, and especially a dom whom I allow to humiliate and degrade me, he has to be transparent as well.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 10:12:16 AM

Greta75

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quote:

Yes, I am. Her question asked if the amount of information divulged should be equal. To my mind, that sets up pointless arguments about who's divulged more and what "equal" means.

Equal to me, means total transparency from both parties. Any withholding of information or reluctance to be transparent will immediately create distrust.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 10:18:29 AM

GoddessManko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Born2BBound72
So do you feel that a Master/Dom should divulge as much about himself as he expects his sub/slave to divulge about herself?

I honestly am as transparent as possible because I am hoping to collar someone. Play partners, I'd be far less inclined but to go into something for the long haul then yes, how else will a sub know how to respond to you or what to expect? My perspective.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 12:12:11 PM

littleladybug

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway

A Dom that I recently spoke with said something along the lines of- if he divulged too much of himself, he felt it would give the submissive too much information and allow her to manipulate him, even if she did not intend to. She would try to finagle the situation to her advantage. That it is simply human nature. I do not know if I fully agree, but it has been food for thought on my part.

This is a very interesting comment, and makes sense to me. Not in the "it makes sense and I agree" way...but it does explain a lot of what I have experienced with Doms in my time.

Maybe it's just the types that I attract...but it seems to me that Doms have baggage, just like the rest of us mortals. *s* I *can* understand in a power-exchange relationship how someone might think it better not to divulge the chinks in the armor, so to speak. And, in that way, I understand that Dom's perspective. However, with that being said, I am not the type to ever, EVER use information to manipulate a Dom with whom I was in a relationship. I figure, if I have to lower myself to that level, the relationship is simply over...

Several months ago, I started a relationship with a Dom. He's got some good baggage...and by "good", I mean talk show fodder. I respect him, because he's doing the best he can with it, and it's not easy. In looking back on the evolution of this relationship, I can see where his "holy SHIT" moment came. For whatever reason, talking and sharing with me was easy for him. And, he shared A LOT. Then came the e-mail. Long story short...he compared me to an ex. And not even the "good" ex... Whoa....

My response to him was simple...."I am me. I'm not perfect certainly, and you can call me on MY mistakes. But don't EVER again compare me to her". What he wrote to me initially was a fear response. I could screw him seven ways from Sunday if I wanted to...and he realized that.

We got over that hurdle, and I think we are better for it. Given the choice of going through that issue with him, or never knowing...I'd take the former any day of the week. Why? Because I feel like I *know* him now. Good, bad, ugly...it's all part of any person, even a Dom.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 3:49:46 PM

IrishMist

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Just a general reply, not aimed at anyone:

I don't know. Knowing someone's vulnerabilities, to me, does not give me power over them. If anything, it would just show that he/she is just as human as the rest of us.
I don't want an emotionless robot who barks out orders under the guise of 'I am the Dominant, don't ask questions".

I want to know that their emotions are just as vulnerable as my own are. Knowing that, I am more inclined to pay attention to what they say, and follow what they want me to do.

Just my thoughts.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/22/2014 6:28:13 PM

Greta75

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To me, if a dom is afraid to show his vulnerability, then he is weak and not fit to dom me.

Am I suppose to display my vulnerability to him to assist him in doming me or controlling me, basically giving him weapons, because his so weak that needs my help in helping him dom over me?

This lack of transparency, means he has skeletons his afraid to share with me, shows weaknesses, big time.

That is really gonna bring up my alpha over him big time. A man who is brave and not afraid to show vulnerability to me, is showing me true strength. True inner strength and confidence.

< Message edited by Greta75 -- 10/22/2014 6:29:10 PM >

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/23/2014 9:18:28 AM

sexyred1

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I will never again be with anyone who was not as open as I am in communication.

Being intimate means sharing. If one withholds emotions and information, they don't deserve me.

I would immediately distrust them.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/23/2014 11:33:47 AM

Mistycalm

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For me, intimacy involves knowing a person on their deepest levels; emotionally, physically, mentally, sexually, psychologically. If a man were unable to commit on those levels, in the same depth that I was expected to, there could be no relationship.

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/23/2014 11:51:11 AM

DarkSteven

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SlipSlidingAway

A Dom that I recently spoke with said something along the lines of- if he divulged too much of himself, he felt it would give the submissive too much information and allow her to manipulate him, even if she did not intend to. She would try to finagle the situation to her advantage. That it is simply human nature. I do not know if I fully agree, but it has been food for thought on my part.

That's not a valid reason to withhold, and actually says that he's insecure in his ability to be a Dom.

There are legitimate reasons to withhold info. My sub disclosed something to me after three years, that she had never shared with anyone else. It caused her major grief at the time and still hurts. And I know of at least one other area that is nothing but pain for her, and I'm not pushing there.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/23/2014 3:00:55 PM

Kaliko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Born2BBound72

So do you feel that a Master/Dom should divulge as much about himself as he expects his sub/slave to divulge about herself?

No.

But...am I comfortable with how much he does share with me? Yes. If I weren't, as you didn't seem to be, then there is a problem. But no, I don't think that a Dominant should divulge as much about himself as a submissive does just based on the thinking that he should. I think he should be sharing at whatever pace he is comfortable with.

ETA: rephrased.

< Message edited by Kaliko -- 10/23/2014 3:02:12 PM >

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RE: Intimacy (into me you see) - 10/24/2014 6:39:32 AM

HeartAndSoul31

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My thoughts on this is where does a Dom or anyone for that matter, feel entitled to intimate details of an individual, when they are unwilling to provide the same?

My view, which is very much my own and out of personal experience, is it is a manipulation tactic. I can not trust someone who keeps secrets.

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