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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/27/2014 9:51:07 PM

ItalianStallion

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In theory...

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/28/2014 6:57:56 AM

searching4mysir

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ItalianStallion

Better question - would a sub female ever submit to a sub male? That's what I'm curious about!

In my case, no. I doubt he would be strong willed enough to dominate (not top) me. Anyone can learn to top, but not everyone can be dominant.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/28/2014 11:47:40 AM

starkem

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Throw out all defining terms and do what is best for you.

As a philosphical question this has merit. Therefore, I will address it as such:

I have been advocating sub/sub relationships for a long time. Why? Doms find subs to be a majority of fakes and time wasters. I humbly suggest that you hand over your life and see how cautiously you proceed. Which is basically the underlying question..... Sub on sub would be more practical. .If you share your experience. (Notice I said experience and not Dom) you can be happy also. Picture being tied up together and going through your various tortures respectively.

There is no interest that we share the same torture affinity, just that we share the same like.

This noble and unique like is called synergy. Some of the same authenticity can be achieved by people that dance to the beat of a different drum beyond so-called protocols. I love rule breakers. I love role reversal. I love thinking and concepts outside of the norm. However, this is just my perspective, but synergy can work - at least philosophically in my mind.

Synergy is the creation of a whole that is greater than the simple sum of its parts. The term synergy comes from the Greek word synergia συνέργεια from synergos, συνεργός, meaning "working together".

< Message edited by starkem -- 10/28/2014 11:53:29 AM >

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/28/2014 12:50:30 PM

MariaB

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Yes, yes and treble yes!

I'm trying to think how many long term sub sub couples I know of. Its certainly not as many as Dom/Domme long term couples but its a reasonably good number. I'm not talking switch, I'm talking submissive couples who don't ever take the role of dominant with one another. I once had a male and female sub. They fell in love and although their relationship didn't last, they were together for a couple of years.

A married sub/sub couple I know reasonably well and who are very much part of the London scene; got it together after being good friends for a number of years. Both are popular scene members, both could of had a dominant partner but their friendship evolved into something so special, they made the decision to become romantic. Because they are out and about a lot at parties and clubs, they get plenty of opportunity to scene with dominants and that seems to be all they need. We could argue that they are bottoms and I suppose they are because neither have that need to always be submissive. What they do have is a common interest. They don't have to hide their desires and can talk openly about their kink.

I doubt many susbmissives would agree to embark on a potential relationship with another submissive unless they already had a deep friendship.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/28/2014 2:03:20 PM

ItalianStallion

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Starkem you make a killer point. I've abandoned my search for dommes in favor of switches and sub partially for that reason.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/28/2014 3:59:52 PM

nhgal

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Personally, I have BTDT enough, I'm not interested in submissive men.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/28/2014 4:11:44 PM

Donatienne

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It assuredly happens all the time IRL with people who just meet under normal conditions -- you probably don't know that the hot guy you met at the coffee shop is another sub until you actually hit the bedroom, for example. My own experience is it's not too sexually satisfying, though -- both parties are just kind of faking out what they know the other wants to the best of their ability, but it doesn't come naturally.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/28/2014 4:57:46 PM

FieryOpal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Donatienne

It assuredly happens all the time IRL with people who just meet under normal conditions -- you probably don't know that the hot guy you met at the coffee shop is another sub until you actually hit the bedroom, for example. My own experience is it's not too sexually satisfying, though -- both parties are just kind of faking out what they know the other wants to the best of their ability, but it doesn't come naturally.

That's what I thought, too, but I have no way of knowing this conclusively.
Btw, welcome to the Message Boards, and please do stick around.

Then, as with any open relationship, there's the prickly matter of what if the steady Dom gets the sub wife pregnant? Could such a marriage endure under those circumstances with sub husband raising another man's child? Would sub wife end up leaving her husband to shack up with her Dom? (I have reason to raise this issue, but I'll refrain from going into detail.)

In another instance, the sub-sub marriage didn't last. At the time, sub husband believed that he was more of a Dom or Switch for many years, but later realized that he was submissive. sub wife needed sub husband to take on a more dominant role in the marriage after they had kids and ended up losing respect for him, so they divorced although they remain friends.

I think the odds are already stacked against couples as it is even when there aren't additional complications. To each his own.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/28/2014 5:15:29 PM

GoddessManko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Donatienne

It assuredly happens all the time IRL with people who just meet under normal conditions -- you probably don't know that the hot guy you met at the coffee shop is another sub until you actually hit the bedroom, for example. My own experience is it's not too sexually satisfying, though -- both parties are just kind of faking out what they know the other wants to the best of their ability, but it doesn't come naturally.

As FieryOpal said,

Agreed, I just see s/s working on a more long term basis with a poly dynamic. I base this on the many married s men who say their wives are complete pleasers and don't have the D streak at all. Due to their s nature, they feel guilty and conflicted by their deceptive actions but crave the kink (slaves to the kink). I chatted with a really sweet sub guy who's married who was straight up with me because he saw I was seeking LTR. Many other married men are less forthcoming. I actually ended up counseling him on what will work (reverse psychology) wise to up his wife's kink clock. I said, let it go for about month, wait for her to initiate (apparently she has in the past though very few times). If ever you do ask, she says no, kiss her on the nose and say "I love you". Women are not as complicated as some men would have you believe.

To OP, only you know what works for you but if you expect her to sub for you then you're not a sub, you're a SWITCH.

< Message edited by GoddessManko -- 10/28/2014 5:16:25 PM >

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/29/2014 12:48:54 AM

orgasmdenial12

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quote:

ORIGINAL: starkem

I have been advocating sub/sub relationships for a long time. Why? Doms find subs to be a majority of fakes and time wasters. I humbly suggest that you hand over your life and see how cautiously you proceed. Which is basically the underlying question..... Sub on sub would be more practical. .If you share your experience. (Notice I said experience and not Dom) you can be happy also. Picture being tied up together and going through your various tortures respectively.

There is no interest that we share the same torture affinity, just that we share the same like.

This noble and unique like is called synergy. Some of the same authenticity can be achieved by people that dance to the beat of a different drum beyond so-called protocols. I love rule breakers. I love role reversal. I love thinking and concepts outside of the norm. However, this is just my perspective, but synergy can work - at least philosophically in my mind.

Synergy is the creation of a whole that is greater than the simple sum of its parts. The term synergy comes from the Greek word synergia συνέργεια from synergos, συνεργός, meaning "working together".

By this logic, heterosexual people should all start looking for same sex relationships. But the thing is that 'practical' and 'experienced' don't really count for much against 'not attracted' and 'not interested'. There may be a million and one great, solid reasons why it would work, but if submissive women are not interested in being with a submissive man (as evidenced by this thread) then it's not going to happen. Ultimately, most people choose partners on the basis of sexual attraction and submissive women just aren't attracted to submissive men.

Also, your thread seemed to suggest that you would both get dominated by the same person

quote:

Picture being tied up together and going through your various tortures respectively.

but if this is the case, then you'd still need to find a compatible Dom anyway, so there's no added benefit to having a submissive partner as well, it'd be more practical to simply put your efforts into finding the right Dominant. What's more, it's unlikely that one dominant would be equally as appealing to both submissives unless one of them is bisexual.

I also find that this concept would be more appealing to male submissives. Female submissives have plenty of Doms to choose from and do not generally struggle to find a dominant male partner (with the exception of internet flakery, etc.) whereas female Dommes are often outnumbered by male submissives. A female submissive has nothing to gain from starting a relationship she doesn't want with a man she is not attracted to, whereas the male submissive is hedging his bets by hoping to get any relationship with a female because he cannot find the female dominant that he prefers. This might explain why many female submissives answered this thread in the negative - they can see that the suggestion situation offers no particular benefit to them and is suggested only as a 'plan B' by male submissives who are struggling to find their partner of choice.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/29/2014 12:34:23 PM

starkem

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Orgasmdenial12, you didn't read that response correctly. Nevertheless, I am getting your point. The philosophical question is whether it's possible.

Your premise, as with a few others rings truth as to how would their respective intimate and lifestyle needs varying be an attraction. Simply sub women are not attracted to sub men. Sub women have no desire to top or Domme at any time. Of course, it would be foolish of me to oppose those points of reality with any success.

It is also spoken of the plausibility of such a relationship lasting. I'm sure those with more experience and friends in the scene or online/real time are also correct that it is not going to work for any long term relationship. They may be on average correct as well in real time.

I present to you a concept on a philosophical level and the concept of working together in a relationship that presented itself with some initial mental and physical attraction and common interests but discovering you are both sub. I realize it is a hard sell even philosophically. Yet, I want to struggle to believe that two trains on opposite tracks, traveling in opposite directions can create a real and sustaining love for the other. Now that was a good read on your part! Spot on!

I am just trying to suggest an excursion outside of the current paradigm and invite like minds to join me on this journey rather than sitting around being deemed unworthy by everybody that works at the station. LOL

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/29/2014 1:01:30 PM

Spiritedsub2

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If a sub man wants anyone to submit to him, I'd call him a switch. IMO.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/29/2014 2:01:55 PM

freedomdwarf1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: starkem
I present to you a concept on a philosophical level and the concept of working together in a relationship that presented itself with some initial mental and physical attraction and common interests but discovering you are both sub. I realize it is a hard sell even philosophically. Yet, I want to struggle to believe that two trains on opposite tracks, traveling in opposite directions can create a real and sustaining love for the other. Now that was a good read on your part! Spot on!

I am just trying to suggest an excursion outside of the current paradigm and invite like minds to join me on this journey rather than sitting around being deemed unworthy by everybody that works at the station. LOL

Unfortunately, your train is likely to be left standing at the station for 99.9% of people for the reasons stated.

Even taking your supposition: "I present to you a concept on a philosophical level and the concept of working together in a relationship that presented itself with some initial mental and physical attraction and common interests but discovering you are both sub", what you are presenting is a 99.9% failure rate.
Which is why most on here (and probably in real life) deems your concept unworkable and impractical.

Anything is possible - for a very short space of time.
But for all intent and purposes, your idea is somewhat impossible for most to even think about... so they don't.
For this posit to have any chance of working at all, one of them must have switch tendencies and adopt that role.
For truly sub/sub relationships, very few survive for any length of time.

You seem to be flogging a dead horse and refusing to give up on the idea by constantly plugging away at it.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/29/2014 7:47:19 PM

Greta75

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I possibly could have a relationship with a submissive man if he was just submissive in the bedroom, but a little more alpha in his real life. Then we could have a vanilla relationship.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/30/2014 7:16:01 AM

MariaB

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

Then, as with any open relationship, there's the prickly matter of what if the steady Dom gets the sub wife pregnant? Could such a marriage endure under those circumstances with sub husband raising another man's child? Would sub wife end up leaving her husband to shack up with her Dom? (I have reason to raise this issue, but I'll refrain from going into detail.)

In another instance, the sub-sub marriage didn't last. At the time, sub husband believed that he was more of a Dom or Switch for many years, but later realized that he was submissive. sub wife needed sub husband to take on a more dominant role in the marriage after they had kids and ended up losing respect for him, so they divorced although they remain friends.

I think the odds are already stacked against couples as it is even when there aren't additional complications. To each his own.

The couple I know well don't do sex with others. If a dominant man wants something sexual with the woman, he's given a polite "Sorry, you're not our type". He has a Domme but she's married to her submissive male and like them, she's not interested in doing anything sexual outside of her marriage. She on the other hand gets plenty of Doms learing after her (She's a pretty young thing). She's often told she's with the wrong partner and needs a real man in her life

. People just don't get what she sees in her partner. If you asked her she'd tell you, "its not his submission I'm attracted to. I'm in love with all his other wonderful qualities."

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/30/2014 7:17:42 AM

MariaB

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What about Dom/Domme couples. Do they also have the odds stacked against them?

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 10/31/2014 5:58:30 PM

InHisHeart

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It wouldn't work for me, it has to be a D/s relationship or no relationship.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 11/5/2014 9:44:12 AM

RebeccaR

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Never. I like dominant guys who take what they want (sexually) when they want. Rightly or wrongly I like to be treated all the ways you're not supposed to treat a woman.

I've had weak, ineffectual doms/masters in the past where I've had to instigate things and take the lead. Hated it.
Prefer naturally dominant guys....or none.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 11/5/2014 9:56:55 AM

camille65

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An absolute no for me. I'm submissive and foolishly married a very passive man, foolishly because it simply did not work. I spent all my time waiting for him to take the lead on anything, he spent all his time passively waiting for me to do it. It created a deep unhappiness within me and eventually huge resentment although in hindsight I should have realized much earlier that he'd never change into what I needed.

It was for me, a wrong way to be living. I felt lost and adrift because there was no one leading. It was a terrible and long mistake I won't do again.

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RE: Would submissive women consider a relationship with... - 11/6/2014 10:58:02 AM

sexyred1

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Same here. I was married to a passive guy too. At first I liked it because he was so nice and prior boyfriend were crazy town, but it really did not work. He tried to be a Dom for me, but it never clicked that way.

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