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RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 8:51:35 AM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline 		You're trendy use of Yin and Yang hasn't got shit to do with its true symbolism.

It goes to the depth of the individual and seeks to illustrate the need to find balance within oneself between the two opposing forces.
If you can't get that you're too damaged.

(And this is what I mean by offending people...) It's only meant to offend ExiledTyrant !

< Message edited by YouName -- 10/27/2014 8:53:32 AM >

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 8:52:13 AM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

Okay!

You tell me one porn or non-porn movie that deals with the subjects I mention so that I can watch it?

That's the whole point - movies are fictional and geared towards pressing people's buttons.
Any movie wouldn't give justice to the real world.
If you are only concerned about movies, that is your problem right there and why your perspective is skewed.
Much like Fifty Shades of Shit that somehow managed to get published.
It's all fantasy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
Concerning the sub and their wish to be chastised...Doesn't make evolutionary sense and going by the fact that you by some logic should submit to your better half then perhaps that sub should do as told?
Again I think it's a bit inhuman(e) to drive towards perpetual and ever deepening degradation. But if someone enjoys this that's fine, as long as they are happy. I'm more curious if it wouldn't be possible to find someone for anyone in either position or if not then what drives people into perpetual submission/slavery or even dominance.


People are driven by their desires and wants. That is just human nature.
The fact that you cannot grasp that concept in favour of your own warped sense of reality, that makes you somewhat obtuse and a little more than clueless. We call these people HNG's.
And you make that very point in your ass-backwards idea of a "reward" system that punishes the sub.
In essence, by doing things ass-backwards and denying your subject the very thing they crave and live for is soul destroying and makes for an ignorant asshat dominant.
But of course, you like to think your idea is better.
Those of us 'in the know' and live this stuff for real, actually know better.

Think what you like. I'm done here.


_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to YouName)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 8:54:49 AM   
shiftyw


Posts: 2837
Joined: 6/6/2013
From: The Shire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

Okay!

You tell me one porn or non-porn movie that deals with the subjects I mention so that I can watch it?

Anyway to begin with there's nothing to convince and if you do not want to converse about the subject then don't do it.

I wrote a bit of a witty remark here just a moment ago asking you not to be disappointed or angry at the fact that I wouldn't agree with you but frankly, there's nothing to agree about and as such you missed the point.


Concerning the sub and their wish to be chastised...Doesn't make evolutionary sense and going by the fact that you by some logic should submit to your better half then perhaps that sub should do as told?
Again I think it's a bit inhuman(e) to drive towards perpetual and ever deepening degradation. But if someone enjoys this that's fine, as long as they are happy. I'm more curious if it wouldn't be possible to find someone for anyone in either position or if not then what drives people into perpetual submission/slavery or even dominance.




We don't have a "punishment/reward" dynamic here.

I would take SICK advantage of it and get spanked all the time BECAUSE I LIKE THE PAIN.
I like him yanking my head back by my hair and pushing me up against walls.

It would be possible, but I doubt you'll find anyone who is into this life to lose their dom or sub qualities.

I'll never top my guy. If he asked me to, it would rock our relationship in a way that I'm not certain it would recover from. I like sorta topping ladies...but can bottom to the right one. Throw a guy and a lady in there, and I don't even know where I fall.

This is their sexuality.

Just like switching is yours.

ETA- I don't find this offensive, I find it stupid.


< Message edited by shiftyw -- 10/27/2014 8:56:39 AM >

(in reply to YouName)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 9:00:22 AM   
ExiledTyrant


Posts: 4547
Joined: 12/9/2013
From: Exiled
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

You're trendy use of Yin and Yang hasn't got shit to do with its true symbolism.

It goes to the depth of the individual and seeks to illustrate the need to find balance within oneself between the two opposing forces.
If you can't get that you're too damaged.

(And this is what I mean by offending people...) It's only meant to offend ExiledTyrant !


Bub, you're the one that has to live with this warped perception of relationships, and I'm pretty sure that you're here with this topic because your relationships spiral the drain like clockwork. All your failed relationships have one thing in common, you. Again, I've answered your question, you're too damaged to understand it, or just too dense. Either way, no skin off my nose, it's your life, such as it is, and you are not going to justify your inadequicies by finding allies here. You're an island in your belief system and an island you will remain.

Jus sayin

_____________________________

Gnothi Seauton
To lead, first follow: Aurelius, Epictetus, Descartes, Sun Tzu, to name a few.

Semper fidelis (which sometimes feels like a burden)

(in reply to YouName)
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RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 11:01:37 AM   
starkem


Posts: 159
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		Ok now I get where you are coming from YouName. The relationship should progress to its eventual and natural end once the condition has been reversed to some sort of equality. Interesting.

However, this concept presupposes that said sub or Dom mode is inherently flawed and the purpose of the relationship should i deally be to restore natural balance to each respectively. Moreover, relationships have not only should be for the purposes of making one whole but should thereby have a natural time limit by which the parties should separate and help someone else become balance. You dont see how people can stay in one mode gdom or sub) perpetually.

You are boldly suggesting that Dom or sub is is the imperfect state that serves to little to help society. If this is a correct summation, you should expect quite a number of people to be offended or bored of your argument. As I develop the switch mentality, I can see your poit albeit not well articulated. In a perfect world Switch would be ideal state of mind. Fascinating. I'm not sure that I totally agree with it but the perspective is different from and counterintuitive to what the majority of BDSM require and enjoy. I hear some moral underlying issues which displeases about these people being stuck in one mode. That doesn't sound too inviting for people that are enjoying just what they've desired to be. It makes you sound like the joy police and everyone getting special koolaid once your in power. Just kidding on the last statement.

It's a philosophy in your premise there somewhere, but I think the concept needs more work. Years ago, I challenged everyone who stated that switching could never rise to the level of real time dynamic to "switch for one day.". Sure, it was met with disdain. How dare you as I recall! The subject was switches are more inclined to be kinksters because they are less desirable of being in mode 24/7/365. Thus, switches are.not dominants or submissives, they just like to play the roles. It was really, for myself, seeming a little questioning of authenticity. Not everyone is like that, but people are very resistant unique concepts by the very nature that they find it offensive. Good luck.

(in reply to ExiledTyrant)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 11:47:05 AM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline 		A-ha! Someone with an open mind. Rare these days...even among apparently "open minded" people.

Indeed you are correct about all your points Starken and this is what I was intent on exploring with the exception of one thing.
It is not an imperfect state. It is a necessary state. A bit pseudo religiously one could perhaps claim or hope to claim that there are enough imbalances in the world in all things to bring balance to each other. As the Dover Cliffs calm the sea so could perhaps a Dom calm the Subs soul and the other way around. Each has a purpose but that purpose is not or from my perspective should not be self perpetuating.
Or perhaps it should if you follow the mindeset of most people here who are comfortable in their permanent roles. To me though perpetuating it just leads to more and more depravity instead of more and more enlightenment. The natural, historic relationship between an apprentice and a master, a servant or page or disciple and their equivalent has been one of moving towards each other.

Indeed, yes I am a bit judgemental about some of the behaviour but I am also very open minded and accepting of it. In fact curious. I'm no Joy police, as long as the people are happy and well then I have no great objection to it.

Interesting challenge but could you clarify it a bit more? Did you challenge switches if they could switch each and every day? It's not that I agree or disagree with that last part, in fact I find the parts I understand interesting such as that we indeed may not have much of a plant or even seed in us in terms of dominance or submissiveness but just enjoy roleplaying and possibly pain or fetishes of various sorts. But yup, I'm trying to turn that a bit around using some sort of logical basis for a D&S relationship and perhaps I shouldn't even try to explain the concept to doms and subs (accepting instead that they are different?) but to switches.

who knows. I've never actually tried it in practise. It just sounds reasonable. Perhaps if it's all roleplaying one does not even need to feel a certain way, just accept a certain role and position for some time and then switch instead of just doing it in the bedroom or for short periods of time. But I still do think that there is some method to the madness and that in some way some people deserve and fit to be the dominating or leading partner in a relationship and the other way around for what ever time the situation persists.



edit~ Changed love to enlightenment as it fits much better and I am in no position to deny or even claim to deny that there isn't love between a slave and their owner when I know the opposite is true.


< Message edited by YouName -- 10/27/2014 12:04:14 PM >

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RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 11:52:36 AM   
Gauge


Posts: 5689
Joined: 6/17/2005
Status: offline 		Is it just me or is anyone else struggling to understand this thread?

_____________________________

"For there is no folly of the beast of the earth which is not infinitely outdone by the madness of men." Herman Melville - Moby Dick

I'm wearing my chicken suit and humming La Marseillaise.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 11:53:43 AM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline 		I am struggling too!

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 11:56:43 AM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littleladybug


quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName


For example...And this may sound weird (I may be the only one?) but if I had a loving, insecure sub into chastity (which I've never had nor am very interested in) I would probably use a reward system in the opposite way that most seem to do.
Instead of working to "lock" him or her up more and more I would reward them with more and more freedom in that sense the more obedient or made better and better life decisions or pleased me in a better way. But most people here (fuck it, ALL people I've talked to or seen on the web) seem to be into the opposite thing.


Why are they "into the opposite thing"? Could it be that's what the submissive wants as well?

I certainly don't think you're the only one who has ever thought about it this way. There are as many types of D/s relationships as there are people in them. And, that is what has struck me most about your postings here. The "I don't understand how people could be this way" mentality.

I (as anyone else) can only speak about this from my own perspective, and here it is:

For me, power-exchange relationships, on whatever level, are not about "breaking someone down". If and when I submit to someone, it will be because they bring something into my life that I value and do not have on my own. Just as important though, is that they feel the exact same way . (See the lovely pic that ExiledTyrant posted previously...).

I never understood the concept of "equality" when it comes to relationships. I suppose some people keep tally sheets for this sort of thing...but that's never been my bag. I always keep people in my life that I can learn from, and in exchange, I can at times teach. It's not fulfilling to me to be in a relationship (*any* relationship) where all is "equal".

If others don't understand it, that's fine. I have more than enough people around me who do.


quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName


Basically the path into equality instead of the path away from it as a guiding principle of D&S relations. I guess that's what this topic is about.
Instead of breaking someone to liberate someone. But perhaps you have to be a switch...or someone not "naturally" either dominant or submissive to be into this type of thing?


Nope, not at all. I am a submissive and would never be in a relationship where the ultimate goal was anything but building me up to be the best person that I can be. Of course, there are some people out there who would argue that I'm not "submissive" because there are certain things that I insist upon in my relationships, and have no problem calling my partner out on things that I don't like...but that goes back to my initial comment, that there are as many ways of having a D/s relationship as there are people in them.

Back to the issue of "equality"...

If it's "equality" in that the tally sheets are all balanced, that's absolutely not for me. *yawn*

However, if it's "equality" in each partner bringing their own strengths and weaknesses into a relationship and having a mutual respect, *that* I can wholeheartedly agree with.




People are indeed different and some feel more comfortable leading while others feel more comfortable following. If your top is continuously bettering themselves at the same rate he is building you up then one of my theories falls flat at least in this instance and your relationship is surely beautiful!
But with all that building up, all the strength you have apparently gained from being in this relationship, can you ever see yourself do to someone else what your top has done to you?

(in reply to littleladybug)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:03:16 PM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

Is it just me or is anyone else struggling to understand this thread?


Nah...it's become more clear as it has gone on.

Much as we have, sometimes, Doms or subs preaching "one true wayism"...here we have a switch who is doing the same. See how the OP has glommed onto the response from a switch (the only one with an "open mind")? Apparently, logic defies those who define themselves as Dominants or submissives. To me, the point of this thread is clear as day. It's that this particular "switch" feels that his method of relationship is the most logical...and dare I say, "better"... than those where the positions are more firmly drawn.




(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:06:05 PM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline 		Heh! Touche...almost.

No. I respect your post as well.
By Open Mind mind I mean someone who does not insult someone elses way, calling the damaged, dependent on porn or as if it were an insult "utopian". (Do I detect a bit of denial there with the use of the word Utopian?)

You on the other hand seem open minded as well.

(in reply to littleladybug)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:06:25 PM   
starkem


Posts: 159
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline 		LOL. The challenge was to doms and subs that question the authenticity or "true" d.s. dynamic and it was only for one day. I even went as far as to defend submissive woman only to be berated by doms and subs that she has to do what master told her to do, or should have negotiated it before she agreed to his collar and slavery. BS! Even though it was nothing illegal it was plain non-consensual an unethical manipulation and betrayal. I've since learned to mind my business and let everyone figure things out for themselves. Some unscrupulous people use the BDSM dynamic to justify taking advantage of someone's naivety. Very few people would vondemn the scoundrel. They kept referring to the protocol. When you've been offended it is time to come out of subspace. I now no longer wish to be a sub or a Dom title. I prefer an open mind and person of some code of resolve.

The other subject we can discuss in ask a switch. I don't like switch either but the lesser of the three. And to each their ow.

(in reply to YouName)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:10:55 PM   
MariaB


Posts: 2969
Joined: 4/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

Is it just me or is anyone else struggling to understand this thread?


Yes, I am but then the over analysis of something so simple makes comprehension difficult!

_____________________________

My store is http://e-stimstore.com

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:10:56 PM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline
Oh I see. Yeah, I thought you meant that at first but I got confused in your post because of the terminology going back and forth.

Anyway obviously I agree with you in your stance as something healthy but I can't see something unhealthy or in any way bad with the situation ladybug describes neither. Just curious on how she and others think of themselves in terms of existentialism and their place in the world and so on and so forth!




< Message edited by YouName -- 10/27/2014 12:12:24 PM >

(in reply to starkem)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:15:38 PM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName


People are indeed different and some feel more comfortable leading while others feel more comfortable following. If your top is continuously bettering themselves at the same rate he is building you up then one of my theories falls flat at least in this instance and your relationship is surely beautiful!
But with all that building up, all the strength you have apparently gained from being in this relationship, can you ever see yourself do to someone else what your top has done to you?



First off, I have never, and would never, refer to him as my "top".

Second is that, yes, I can see myself giving this to someone else....as I do it every day. For me, a relationship will not succeed if I don't give the other person as much as he gives to me. Honestly, it might behoove you to speak to more Doms (both male and female). Not the stereotypical "my way is the right way....follow me or suffer the consequences" type. Talk to the type that is, in my experience, VASTLY more common...those who want a "give and take" relationship, going both ways. While yes, there is a power exchange, there's also an understanding from the Dom's part that they can learn and become a better person by being with the sub. I know....this could blow quite a few people's minds...but it's my experience.

I realize that you have found your bliss by being a switch...but do yourself a favor and speak to *actual* people who have embraced the Dominant or submissive roles before you start spouting that you "don't understand".

< Message edited by littleladybug -- 10/27/2014 12:16:46 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:17:37 PM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline 		As I said, please don't take offense. Be open minded. Do you have any questions for me from my perspective perhaps?

Also it's not that I have found my bliss and boasting about it. I'd like to develop or see if others are interested in developing this mentality a step further where it becomes neither switch nor either of the two but a situational thing continuously re-evaluated.
Most normal relationships, including of course vanilla ones have aspects of this in them around certain parts of the relationship.

Someone may be better with money and investing and the other one might give advice but will usually obey or heed the suggestions of the other one without there even being an inkling of thought about who is a dom and who is a sub.
But as partners tend to educate each other and move towards equilibrium except in the fields of specialization, in other fields expertise can also differ and persist because each person may like or dislike certain things but not where there is an interest to build or learn from each other.
There might be situations where submitting to a larger degree for longer and more indepth submissions without there ever being a submissive or dominant personality involved.

But most people then tend to get quite defensive and such relationships rarely last in the sphere of vanilla ones. Or become a bit distanced like those of a trophy wife(husband?) and a rich and busy CEO.
I've had a friend who never got involved into her husbands affairs and while she had plenty of things to spend her time and money on she felt quite unfulfilled. Perhaps if she had worked her way up through the "family business" things would be different.
In other (most cases) a large family , taking care of the household, having happy kids and a good dynamic is enough and each has their sphere which they specialize in, then there is no power dynamic and both are close to the middle of the previously mentioned Yin and Yang.



< Message edited by YouName -- 10/27/2014 12:37:12 PM >

(in reply to littleladybug)
Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:18:34 PM   
freedomdwarf1


Posts: 6845
Joined: 10/23/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
A-ha! Someone with an open mind. Rare these days...even among apparently "open minded" people.

You mean someone that agrees with you???
Shock, horror, gasp!!!
Sometimes shit happens.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
It is not an imperfect state. It is a necessary state. A bit pseudo religiously one could perhaps claim or hope to claim that there are enough imbalances in the world in all things to bring balance to each other.

Ain't never going to happen all the while there is someone on the planet breathing.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
As the Dover Cliffs calm the sea so could perhaps a Dom calm the Subs soul and the other way around. Each has a purpose but that purpose is not or from my perspective should not be self perpetuating.

Why the fuck not??
Seriously, you want every relationship to be temporary???
Coz that's what you are implying here.

A world where love and companionship and compatibility is measured by a clock and doomed to end when your number is up.
Sheeesh!! what a ridiculous world that would be!

Sorry, your world is warped.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
Or perhaps it should if you follow the mindeset of most people here who are comfortable in their permanent roles.

It works for the majority of people.
If you don't subscribe to it, that would be your loss.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
To me though perpetuating it just leads to more and more depravity instead of more and more love.

Ohh maaaaan!!!
You are one warped mofo to think along these lines.
ET was right... you are an island and will always be if that is how you see the world - seriously fucked up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
The natural, historic relationship between an apprentice and a master, a servant or page or disciple and their equivalent has been one of moving towards each other.

You don't know your history.
One teaches the other but apart from that, never the twain shall meet unless the pupil surpasses the master.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
Indeed yes, I am a bit judgemental about some of the behaviour

A bit???

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
but I am also very open minded and accepting of it.

Really??
You have railed against the (learned) opinions on here and rejected reality.
Not open - extremely naive, obtuse, and unrealistic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
In fact curious. I'm no Joy police, as long as the people are happy and well then I have no great objection to it.

So what has been your posit since opening the thread??
Nothing but objection and conjecture of an alternate universe that very few live in or would want to live in.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
Interesting challenge but could you clarify it a bit more? Did you challenge switches if they could switch each and every day? It's not that I agree or disagree with that last part, in fact I find the parts I understand interesting such as that we indeed may not have much of a plant or even seed in us in terms of dominance or submissiveness but just enjoy roleplaying and possibly pain or fetishes of various sorts.

Exactly!!
Roleplay is completely different to real-life scenarios.
You seem to think that they are (or should be) one and the same.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
But yup, I'm trying to turn that a bit around using some sort of logical basis for a D&S relationship and perhaps I shouldn't even try to explain the concept to doms and subs (accepting instead that they are different?) but to switches.

There is no "logic" for someone to be a Dom/me or a sub - it's who they are and how they identify themselves.
You are trying to bang a square peg into a round hole - with a screwdriver.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
who knows. I've never actually tried it in practise. It just sounds reasonable.

There you go - spouting something you have never tried let alone been successful with.
What you purport is unreasonable and doomed to abject failure right off the bat.

quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName
Perhaps if it's all roleplaying one does not even need to feel a certain way, just accept a certain role and position for some time and then switch instead of just doing it in the bedroom or for short periods of time. But I still do think that there is some method to the madness and that in some way some people deserve and fit to be the dominating or leading partner in a relationship and the other way around for what ever time the situation persists.

And for the majority of people, that time is, for all intent and purposes, indefinitely, in just the ONE role.
That is a concept that clearly escapes you and your Utopia.
Dream on man.

_____________________________

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.”
George Orwell, 1903-1950


(in reply to YouName)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:21:47 PM   
SeekingTrinity


Posts: 1834
Joined: 5/29/2012
From: The 'burbs of Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gauge

Is it just me or is anyone else struggling to understand this thread?


Fuck, yes! I drank a whole pot of coffee and still couldn't puzzle out WTF OP was getting at.

This convoluted mess is not, for the record, the way all switches think. Just this particular one.


< Message edited by SeekingTrinity -- 10/27/2014 12:23:35 PM >

(in reply to Gauge)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:26:32 PM   
littleladybug


Posts: 1082
Joined: 5/30/2013
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: YouName

As I said, please don't take offense. Be open minded. Do you have any questions for me from my perspective perhaps?


If this was directed at me...no, I really don't have any questions for you.

I'm also not offended. This is typical of what I've seen. I'm really as open-minded as the next person, and probably more so. Hey, whatever you want to do in your relationship, as long as it's legal, have at it. But, you're not going to change my mind about how I deal with my own relationships. If that's what you want to do, it's simply not going to happen. I don't agree that you have the key to relationships...but that's what life is all about. I respect that you see this as "the way". If it leads to your own bliss, more power to you. It's not for me. And all I expect is the same consideration.

(in reply to YouName)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Some thoughts on long term relationships within BDSM - 10/27/2014 12:33:20 PM   
YouName


Posts: 271
Joined: 10/22/2014
Status: offline 		Ye, that's okay. I'm not trying to change your opinion ladybug. Just figure out what makes you tick. And you said yourself that you play that role I asked you about every day. Perhaps to your kids if you have any? Anyway, doesn't seem to far off from my perspective and although it's not a match it's all cool. Maybe the concept better fits switches in general as I've alluded to. This is "General BDSM" tho so it's for us too.

Freedomdwarf
I don't want to make you any more depressed dude so I'm gonna leave it at that =-)

(in reply to littleladybug)
Profile   Post #: 40
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