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RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 1:59:19 PM   
JeffBC


Posts: 5799
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
The GOP will have to start passing legislation that is popular enough with the entire country to get enough political pressure on Obama and the Democrats to get it signed into law.

Well yes, just one flaw. Neither party has any interest in such legislation except insofar as it costs the 1% nothing.

_____________________________

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officially a member of the K Crowd

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 3:04:13 PM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Ads can and do influence the 'undecided' who claim not to vote party line. The whole problem with repubs is that they aren't conservatives. One could probably count on one hand the real conservatives in either house.
ObamaCare was the 'conservative' approach to health care (1992-93 alternative to Hillarycare) until it was proposed by the dems.
Then it became either a socialist govt. take over of health care or worse...communism. That very ignorance caused a swing and was purchased with right wing money and can and did cause the repubs to get out the vote to defeat dems...no matter most the other issues.
Why do 1/3 of those regist. as repubs in Louisiana believe that the failures in the federal response to Katrina was Obama's incompetence ?
Ignorance and M O N E Y !!


Actually, Obamacare is only similar to the Republican plan from the 90's, but it's not the same.

First, and foremost, the money spent by business on health care for employees or employee's medical savings accounts was a business deduction, and wasn't allowed to be counted towards gross income of the employee, and money's spent by the employees towards qualified health care costs and/or medical savings accounts was also tax deductible. So, rather than just threatening businesses and/or individuals with a tax fine for not being covered by a qualified health care plan, it also gave incentives for people to enroll.

Imagine that; empowering people to take control of their own health care choices!


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 3:22:11 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
And the way to empower those people is dump the fuckin insurance companies. Give them real freedom and control. Not the illusion of it, while skinning their wallets.

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 3:40:05 PM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And the way to empower those people is dump the fuckin insurance companies. Give them real freedom and control. Not the illusion of it, while skinning their wallets.


Give lazy, fat assed bureaucrats and crony politicians total control?

Why, because you really love pain, punishment, humiliation and being owned that much?



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 3:40:28 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Ads can and do influence the 'undecided' who claim not to vote party line. The whole problem with repubs is that they aren't conservatives. One could probably count on one hand the real conservatives in either house.
ObamaCare was the 'conservative' approach to health care (1992-93 alternative to Hillarycare) until it was proposed by the dems.
Then it became either a socialist govt. take over of health care or worse...communism. That very ignorance caused a swing and was purchased with right wing money and can and did cause the repubs to get out the vote to defeat dems...no matter most the other issues.
Why do 1/3 of those regist. as repubs in Louisiana believe that the failures in the federal response to Katrina was Obama's incompetence ?
Ignorance and M O N E Y !!


Actually, Obamacare is only similar to the Republican plan from the 90's, but it's not the same.

First, and foremost, the money spent by business on health care for employees or employee's medical savings accounts was a business deduction, and wasn't allowed to be counted towards gross income of the employee, and money's spent by the employees towards qualified health care costs and/or medical savings accounts was also tax deductible. So, rather than just threatening businesses and/or individuals with a tax fine for not being covered by a qualified health care plan, it also gave incentives for people to enroll.

Imagine that; empowering people to take control of their own health care choices!


No...mandating people take on the expense of their own health care 'choices' as well as the entire cost. The same as the repub plan of 92-93.

Employers, i.e., the marketplace has made the decision to now tell all employees at a small enough company, health insurance will no longer be included as a benefit as a means of competing to get employees.

The tax deductibility and flexibility vis-a-vis health care costs to the extent businesses and individuals incur any...are still in place and has not changed.

If I am a small business I will shuck all health insurance contributions to my employees and save myself $1000's or more per month.

Plus, those employees are no longer a part of a large group offering discounts because of the spreading of risk being removed...premiums go up.

Imagine that.




(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 3:55:02 PM   
KYsissy


Posts: 781
Joined: 5/12/2005
Status: offline
FR . .
Ben Carson is running for president. So far I like the guy. Now we have 2 years to vet him and for the dirt digging machine to work.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/meet-ben-carson-republican-throw-hat-2016-ring/story?id=26735300

_____________________________

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Will Rogers, 1897-1935

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 5:25:34 PM   
lovmuffin


Posts: 3759
Joined: 9/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

It was an incredible night for Money in politics.


It was an incredible night for Obama and the Democrat party and their policies to face a referendum



That is extremely doubtful. The nutsuckers policies are now facing a referendum, I think this will prove to be the nutsuckers last gasp.

Perhaps some republicans will be born from the coming carnage.


The Republicans can now either act like Democrats and be as hated as Democrats are, or they can govern as moderate conservatives and enjoy mainstream support



Well, since the Teas have been systematically driving moderate conservatives out of office as RINOs, that doesn't seem likely.


Hmmmmm.........maybe there is hope for us after all.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 5:45:57 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

It was an incredible night for Money in politics.


It was an incredible night for Obama and the Democrat party and their policies to face a referendum



That is extremely doubtful. The nutsuckers policies are now facing a referendum, I think this will prove to be the nutsuckers last gasp.

Perhaps some republicans will be born from the coming carnage.


The Republicans can now either act like Democrats and be as hated as Democrats are, or they can govern as moderate conservatives and enjoy mainstream support



Well, since the Teas have been systematically driving moderate conservatives out of office as RINOs, that doesn't seem likely.


Hmmmmm.........maybe there is hope for us after all.

Hope for change?

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to lovmuffin)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 6:35:28 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
quote:

Actually, Obamacare is only similar to the Republican plan from the 90's, but it's not the same.


Then why did the Republicans in Congress not bring that into the debate... why did not they offer that as an alternative for compromise?

I believe because they did not give a rats ass about Americans and healthcare and only wanted and want to use the healthcare act to get control of Congress... well... it worked.

Butch

_____________________________

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I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to DesideriScuri)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 6:43:50 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

Actually, Obamacare is only similar to the Republican plan from the 90's, but it's not the same.


Then why did the Republicans in Congress not bring that into the debate... why did not they offer that as an alternative for compromise?

I believe because they did not give a rats ass about Americans and healthcare and only wanted and want to use the healthcare act to get control of Congress... well... it worked.

Butch

Debate?
They were told take it or leave it, and "we have to pass this bill ti find out what is in it."

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/6/2014 8:38:52 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
Status: offline
Obama and the Democratic leadership asked them over and over to come up with an alternate plan... You tell me where they put up ANY plan of any kind ever... OR proposed even ONE change to the presented plan. Bama the Republican strategy was NO healthcare plan period.

Butch



_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/7/2014 3:22:09 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
quote:

ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri
quote:

ORIGINAL: MrRodgers
Ads can and do influence the 'undecided' who claim not to vote party line. The whole problem with repubs is that they aren't conservatives. One could probably count on one hand the real conservatives in either house.
ObamaCare was the 'conservative' approach to health care (1992-93 alternative to Hillarycare) until it was proposed by the dems.
Then it became either a socialist govt. take over of health care or worse...communism. That very ignorance caused a swing and was purchased with right wing money and can and did cause the repubs to get out the vote to defeat dems...no matter most the other issues.
Why do 1/3 of those regist. as repubs in Louisiana believe that the failures in the federal response to Katrina was Obama's incompetence ?
Ignorance and M O N E Y !!

Actually, Obamacare is only similar to the Republican plan from the 90's, but it's not the same.
First, and foremost, the money spent by business on health care for employees or employee's medical savings accounts was a business deduction, and wasn't allowed to be counted towards gross income of the employee, and money's spent by the employees towards qualified health care costs and/or medical savings accounts was also tax deductible. So, rather than just threatening businesses and/or individuals with a tax fine for not being covered by a qualified health care plan, it also gave incentives for people to enroll.
Imagine that; empowering people to take control of their own health care choices!

No...mandating people take on the expense of their own health care 'choices' as well as the entire cost. The same as the repub plan of 92-93.
Employers, i.e., the marketplace has made the decision to now tell all employees at a small enough company, health insurance will no longer be included as a benefit as a means of competing to get employees.
The tax deductibility and flexibility vis-a-vis health care costs to the extent businesses and individuals incur any...are still in place and has not changed.
If I am a small business I will shuck all health insurance contributions to my employees and save myself $1000's or more per month.
Plus, those employees are no longer a part of a large group offering discounts because of the spreading of risk being removed...premiums go up.
Imagine that.


There were subsidies in the HEART Act of 1993.

There were no tax penalties on an employer for spending "too much" on your employee's health care.

Tax deductions for qualified health care spending is a carrot to get businesses and people to get insurance and take control of their health. What "carrot" does Obamacare offer? Nothing. Subsidies aren't incentives. Tax penalties are not carrots, they are sticks. While the HEART Act of 1993 did include fines for someone not getting insured, it certainly offered a lot more carrots to those who did get insured.

And, there were provisions in the HEART Act of 1993 for creation of large groups for risk reduction purposes. Look it up.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to MrRodgers)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/7/2014 3:27:04 AM   
DesideriScuri


Posts: 12225
Joined: 1/18/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub
quote:

Actually, Obamacare is only similar to the Republican plan from the 90's, but it's not the same.

Then why did the Republicans in Congress not bring that into the debate... why did not they offer that as an alternative for compromise?
I believe because they did not give a rats ass about Americans and healthcare and only wanted and want to use the healthcare act to get control of Congress... well... it worked.
Butch


Even though Boehner and I are both in Ohio, I am not in his District, and none of the Ohio Congressional representatives (let alone any other State's Congressional representatives) sat down with me to talk about what should be done about health care reform. So, I can't tell you why it wasn't offered as an alternative.

I think things have progressed since the 90's that would have made the HEART Act (in 2010) as big a boon for insurance companies as Obamacare is.

I'd love to see health insurance companies separated from ownership and/or control of health care providers. I think that's one point to start at that would pay big dividends towards reducing the cost of care.


_____________________________

What I support:

  • A Conservative interpretation of the US Constitution
  • Personal Responsibility
  • Help for the truly needy
  • Limited Government
  • Consumption Tax (non-profit charities and food exempt)

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/7/2014 5:37:30 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Obama and the Democratic leadership asked them over and over to come up with an alternate plan... You tell me where they put up ANY plan of any kind ever... OR proposed even ONE change to the presented plan. Bama the Republican strategy was NO healthcare plan period.

Butch





quote:

Seriously? The Republicans Have No Health Plan?


It’s arguably the favorite myth of progressives, the oft-repeated claim that Republicans have no health plan. Hence, President Obama was fully justified in ignoring them and proceeding to enact a comprehensive health reform law on a strict party line vote—something completely unprecedented in American political history. Karl Rove last week did an excellent job of countering that myth in a Wall Street Journal op-ed. For those who may have missed that piece, or those who want further details and links not feasible to include within the constraints of a printed op-ed, this post is intended to fill in some blanks...



_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/7/2014 6:13:28 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
. . . it's just that you're unable to say what it is, beyond "get rid of this, get rid of that . . . "

(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 95
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/7/2014 7:13:46 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

And the way to empower those people is dump the fuckin insurance companies. Give them real freedom and control. Not the illusion of it, while skinning their wallets.


Give lazy, fat assed bureaucrats and crony politicians total control?

Why, because you really love pain, punishment, humiliation and being owned that much?





It is better than giving total control to Nazi nutsuckers and the corporations who have no morality, conscience, or the necessity of standing trial in their 'personhood', and everything they do is to fuck the American people.


_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/7/2014 7:22:06 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

. . . it's just that you're unable to say what it is, beyond "get rid of this, get rid of that . . . "


Read the fucking article.

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

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Profile   Post #: 97
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/7/2014 7:25:16 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
I did, and its links. As usual, clearly *you* didn't read it.

It repeated says "they ignored so and so's plan," but there's never any actual plan described. Anywhere.

You guys have been screaming so long that you believe your own protests. But when asked for details -- you have literally nothing.

Cite it. Go ahead -- copy and paste the plan from the article. Except that...there's not one to copy. It doesn't exist.


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 98
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/7/2014 9:08:59 AM   
Sanity


Posts: 22039
Joined: 6/14/2006
From: Nampa, Idaho USA
Status: offline

The problem with your straw man construct of what the article says, is that people can click on the link and read all about the proposed Republican alternatives for themselves

If lies and other fallacies are all youve got in defense of your ideology, perhaps you will consider changing your ideology

_____________________________

Inside Every Liberal Is A Totalitarian Screaming To Get Out

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Republican Wave! - 11/7/2014 9:21:53 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline
And still you can't say what the plans are. Because . . . there aren't any there.

You see, I actually read both the article and its links. Straw man posits a position that isn't true. Mine is dead on.

There is a lot of whining. There isn't any substance.


(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 100
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