RE: Mid Term Takeaways

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TheHeretic -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/9/2014 12:25:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JeffBC The guy is pro-military, pro-business, and anti-democracy. What more could you conservatives want out of a candidate? The only places he differs from your guys is he doesn't want to institute a theocracy and a few social issues which are obviously important to some but to me sort of pale in the face of "no due process". Not quite, Jeff. While he certainly enjoys mixing and mingling among the uber-wealthy of Wall Street and the Hollyweird elite, he's no friend at all to Main Street. He carries the authoritarian streak of the left proudly, and he can't get past the Marxism 101 view of how the world works ("ATMs destroy jobs" being an easy example). Pro-military? On what fucking planet? He views the military as people to be sent off to get killed as a delaying tactic while his diplomatic efforts are given time to fail.

JeffBC -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/9/2014 3:01:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Not quite, Jeff. While he certainly enjoys mixing and mingling among the uber-wealthy of Wall Street and the Hollyweird elite, he's no friend at all to Main Street. He carries the authoritarian streak of the left proudly, and he can't get past the Marxism 101 view of how the world works ("ATMs destroy jobs" being an easy example). Pro-military? On what fucking planet? He views the military as people to be sent off to get killed as a delaying tactic while his diplomatic efforts are given time to fail. I think we are violently agreeing although I separate out his rhetoric from what he really believes. I don't think he subscribes to any Marxist view on anything. I think he subscribes to the Oligarchy model with (as is usually the case) a large dose of police-state thrown in to keep the serfs in line. It's my understanding from the pathetic poli-sci training we get in America that what he wants would have been called either Fascism or Corporatism by Mussolini but definitely not Marxism. Where you and I disagree is that you seem to think that the Republican party is somehow different and I do not. For me, the only difference is which particular set of Oligarchs they cozy up to. That, I think, is the real battle being fought. There are two groups of Oligarchs each vying for power, one represented by the Democrats and the other by the Republicans. "Main Street" is simply chess pieces on the board. But you and I don't need to debate this here and now. The next two years should show pretty clearly what the Republican party stands for. I'm willing to bet that they've done nothing for main street when we reconvene two years from now.

TheHeretic -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/9/2014 3:11:24 PM)
Just a quick reply, Jeff. I think one major difference between the two parties is that the brand of authoritarianism which manifests among the Republicans is explicitly prohibited by the Constitution, while the Democrat version could be weaseled in by the lawyers. To my mind, that makes the Democrats slightly more dangerous.

JeffBC -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/9/2014 8:21:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic I think one major difference between the two parties is that the brand of authoritarianism which manifests among the Republicans is explicitly prohibited by the Constitution, while the Democrat version could be weaseled in by the lawyers. To my mind, that makes the Democrats slightly more dangerous. I admit I tend towards high level abstractions but to me they look pretty identical. In both cases they want a Fascist/Corporatist Oligarchy with the bonds of slavery maintained with intense domestic surveillance and a fully militarized police force. Those things are, apparently, entirely constitutional says your own Republican justices on the supreme court. Beyond that you're talking flavors of slavery. There's some questions about how brutal it will be (thinking about the differences in life expectancy between the classes for instance). There's some questions about whether we'll be enslaved with or without abortions or a theocracy or a handful of other details. But if you care about freedom then they all look kind of similar. I'd prefer not to be anyone's slave. In the end, though, I cede that they are both pretty ugly and you can slice and dice minutiae to come up with a preference. I cannot argue yours. Believe me, if I thought the Democrats had any sort of pro-democracy street cred I'd be making the case. I just prefer not to put bullets in the gun of my enemy -- either one of them.

truckinslave -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/18/2014 6:58:11 PM)
quote: No Democrat could possibly get elected on the platform of repealing Obamacare and no Republican will ever hold the White House after promising to repeal it. That er, um, wisdom, runs completely against the facts of every election since it ws passed. 29 of the 60 Dim Senators who voted for it are Senators no more. Every Rep elected to the Senate this time around campaigned against it. It is deeply, deeply unpopular.....

Musicmystery -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/18/2014 7:04:11 PM)
And Romney?

Aylee -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/18/2014 7:30:24 PM)
What does Romney have to do with this?

Musicmystery -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/18/2014 7:55:24 PM)
You've already forgotten the 2012 campaign?

DomKen -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/18/2014 8:34:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: No Democrat could possibly get elected on the platform of repealing Obamacare and no Republican will ever hold the White House after promising to repeal it. That er, um, wisdom, runs completely against the facts of every election since it ws passed. 29 of the 60 Dim Senators who voted for it are Senators no more. Every Rep elected to the Senate this time around campaigned against it. It is deeply, deeply unpopular..... Try reading what I wrote not the deeply crazy shit you wish I wrote dumbass.

Edwynn -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/18/2014 10:58:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Stop Ebobama!!!! Oh my gosh, that is too funny! It's not enough to just think like three yr. olds anymore, now apparently they have to complete the picture and talk like a three yr. old. "Ebabababa!!!! Ebabababa!!!!" Now the nutcase radio has them flubbing their lips as political commentary. And they do it, right on cue! "Ebabababa!!!!" LOL!

joether -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/19/2014 1:59:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave quote: No Democrat could possibly get elected on the platform of repealing Obamacare and no Republican will ever hold the White House after promising to repeal it. That er, um, wisdom, runs completely against the facts of every election since it ws passed. 29 of the 60 Dim Senators who voted for it are Senators no more. Every Rep elected to the Senate this time around campaigned against it. It is deeply, deeply unpopular..... Its both sad and funny to realize that people view the ACA in unpopular viewpoints having not actually sat down and....READ...the law itself. That you and others could not explain the nature of the ACA with any reasonable accuracy. Metaphorically its like you firing an aimed gun and missing a target the side of Earth from two feet away. An you, being an expert shooter being even more sad/amusing. Those whom won seats in Congress ran on.....nothing...useful. That's right, they'll spend the next year accomplishing absolutely nothing and blaming it all on Democrats. People like you, will hold them to zero levels of accountability and responsibility with power. Unfortunately, most of the people that voted, are neither conservative nor liberal; they are moderate. And they are expecting results that favor them personally. When Republicans and their Tea Party lackeys fail to deliver 'the goods', will vote Democrats back into office. Because in 2016, many more Republican seats come up for the election process. Don't be so quick to get rid of something that is actually helping Americans. And could be helping yourself without realizing it. A guy I know, was a very strict libertarian. He wanted government spending reduced and actively pushed the process. Well, he got his wish; the government spending went down. Unfortunately, the government was the #2 spot for 'cash-in' for the company that hired his company to do labor (that he worked for, and not as management). He never knew his company's #2 client was the US Government. When the money stop flowing in, management laid people off. He lost his job, his house, his car, and his marriage. Be sure to think things through before you advocate getting rid of it.

truckinslave -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/19/2014 10:46:21 AM)
The fine art of reasoning so wishes it could be friends with you. As does civility.

truckinslave -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/19/2014 10:47:36 AM)
That Romney lost in no way changes the facts that: 29 of the 60 Dim Senators who voted for it are Senators no more. Every Rep elected to the Senate this time around campaigned against it. It is deeply, deeply unpopular.....

mnottertail -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/19/2014 10:57:16 AM)
Ja, and we can tell by the lowest turnout in history since the beginning of WWII when people couldn't vote. Fuckin deep I tell you. Deep apathy is what you have to peddle, because that is what is on the cart. You want to start your 2016 predictions yet?

Musicmystery -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/19/2014 11:20:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave That Romney lost in no way changes the facts that: 29 of the 60 Dim Senators who voted for it are Senators no more. Every Rep elected to the Senate this time around campaigned against it. No one is questioning that. (Although you're making assumptions about voter motivation that I'll bet you didn't make in 2012 when Dems took the Senate and Obama was re-elected). The OP's point included republican candidates and difficulty taking the White House over this. Romney ran on it. He lost. Seems a relevant point, and a problem for the "all Americans oppose ACA and vote that way" belief.

truckinslave -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/19/2014 11:27:55 AM)
Yeah, "vote that way" is problematical. But so is assuming that Romney lost because he opposed EbobamaCare

Musicmystery -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/19/2014 11:30:02 AM)
...as is assuming anyone else lost/won for a single issue. That's the point.

slvemike4u -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/19/2014 12:49:23 PM)
Are you giving odds on whether or not he see's it ?

DomKen -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/19/2014 3:44:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave The fine art of reasoning so wishes it could be friends with you. As does civility. You are talking about reasoning? Really? Do you really want to go there? Reasoning is traditionally more than pathetic schoolyard insults for your information. When you can make an actual cogent argument get back to me.

truckinslave -> RE: Mid Term Takeaways (11/20/2014 1:49:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave The fine art of reasoning so wishes it could be friends with you. As does civility. You are talking about reasoning? Really? Do you really want to go there? Reasoning is traditionally more than pathetic schoolyard insults for your information. When you can make an actual cogent argument get back to me. This fine example of liberal erudition is from a man whose previous post to me consisted of: Try reading what I wrote not the deeply crazy shit you wish I wrote dumbass. Too funny.

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