RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday

RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (Full Version)

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truckinslave -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 1:04:00 PM)
Your post assumes that all possible executive actions (on immigration) are equal, or at least equally legal. Which is, of course, asinine.

DomKen -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 1:35:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Your post assumes that all possible executive actions (on immigration) are equal, or at least equally legal. Which is, of course, asinine. I'd love to hear how what the President proposes tonight is less legal than what Reagan or either Bush did by executive order. Precisely in detail.

truckinslave -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 1:45:22 PM)
Then you should read Heckler v Cheney, the Congressional Research Service analysis by attorneys Kate M. Manuel and Michael John Garvis, and the relevant wrirings of John McGinnis, a law prof at Northwestern. There are problems both of scope and permissible motive; there is also a much narrower question about which I started a specific thread.

DesideriScuri -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 2:32:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Your post assumes that all possible executive actions (on immigration) are equal, or at least equally legal. Which is, of course, asinine. I'd love to hear how what the President proposes tonight is less legal than what Reagan or either Bush did by executive order. Precisely in detail. What EO did Bush 41 sign about immigration? Did you not read my earlier post that showed that Reagan, Bush 43, AND Clinton, all wrote EO's that were specifically mentioned as being allowed, in US Code? Unless Obama is going to follow suit and award qualification to undocumented immigrants who have fought in some military conflict that hasn't yet been mentioned in an EO, his actions won't be the same as Reagan, Bush 43, and Clinton. Obviously, we'll have to wait and see what the President is considering, but when you compare legality of two actions, those actions should be similar in more than just a broad category, like "immigration-related." [8\|]

Marini -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 6:41:21 PM)
I heard most of the speech, I am gazing over the transcripts now. CNN--Transcript of President Obama's immigration speech well well yeah yeah

Aylee -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 7:22:43 PM)
YAY! More foreign workers created than jobs that were created. How could this go wrong?

DomKen -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 7:26:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: truckinslave Your post assumes that all possible executive actions (on immigration) are equal, or at least equally legal. Which is, of course, asinine. I'd love to hear how what the President proposes tonight is less legal than what Reagan or either Bush did by executive order. Precisely in detail. What EO did Bush 41 sign about immigration? Did you not read my earlier post that showed that Reagan, Bush 43, AND Clinton, all wrote EO's that were specifically mentioned as being allowed, in US Code? Unless Obama is going to follow suit and award qualification to undocumented immigrants who have fought in some military conflict that hasn't yet been mentioned in an EO, his actions won't be the same as Reagan, Bush 43, and Clinton. Obviously, we'll have to wait and see what the President is considering, but when you compare legality of two actions, those actions should be similar in more than just a broad category, like "immigration-related." [8\|] Those are not the only EO's on immigration issued by Reagan and the Bush's. Do better research.

Marini -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 7:45:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee YAY! More foreign workers created than jobs that were created. How could this go wrong? sshhh Aylee, we are not supposed to be that smart. Our economy is stagnant, and hardly vibrant, how the hell is all of this sustainable? Does anyone care about the millions of citizens already here, that are going hungry? homeless? unable to make ends meet?/ or the decimation of a large portion of the struggling middle class? Does anyone care about the citizens that have been unable to gain employment or are underemployed? I would just like to see a LITTLE of this concern/or maybe some of it put into helping the millions that are already here and struggling like hell. Oops, I forget, this is not about helping the millions here that are hopeless, I am sorry.

Gauge -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:04:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini sshhh Aylee, we are not supposed to be that smart. Our economy is stagnant, and hardly vibrant, how the hell is all of this sustainable? Does anyone care about the millions of citizens already here, that are going hungry? homeless? unable to make ends meet?/ or the decimation of a large portion of the struggling middle class? Does anyone care about the citizens that have been unable to gain employment or are underemployed? I would just like to see a LITTLE of this concern/or maybe some of it put into helping the millions that are already here and struggling like hell. Seriously, does anyone care about the millions already here that are not doing well at all? They didn't care before, why the fuck should anyone start now? If you think that immigration caused this, you don't understand the problem.

Marini -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:10:15 PM)
Gauge, have I EVER said that immigration caused this? Please show me where I have ever said that? I said, I would like to see the same level of concern and attention, for the millions that are falling through the cracks. I have a right to voice my opinion, about the great many people here, that are struggling like hell. Why can't we bring attention to both situations?

Gauge -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:17:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Gauge, have I EVER said that immigration caused this? Please show me where I have ever said that? Nope, you didn't say it. Didn't mean to imply you did. quote: I said, I would like to see the same level of concern and attention, for the millions that are falling through the cracks. You and me both. quote: I have a right to voice my opinion, about the great many people here, that are struggling like hell. Never said you didn't have that right. quote: Why can't we bring attention to both situations? Because they are different problems and should be treated as such.

Marini -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:26:56 PM)
If millions are coming here to work, and surely not coming to get entitlement programs, than discussing the employment situation and economic conditions of the existing citizenry is indeed "relevant".

Gauge -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:30:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini If millions are coming here to work, and surely not coming to get entitlement programs, than discussing the employment situation and economic conditions of the existing citizenry is indeed "relevant". Oh. I thought you said immigration didn't cause that. My mistake.

Marini -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:31:34 PM)
I like this game. Read what I said above.

Gauge -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:38:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini I like this game. Read what I said above. It's a game that you are ill qualified to play. You did exactly what I expected you to do. It is what everyone does when talking about immigration. While I do agree that the plight of the middle class is dire, it was never caused by immigration. That it is warranted in a discussion in parallel with immigration and it suddenly makes it relevant by association is a typical ploy used by those that would rather point fingers at the dirty foreigners instead of those that are raping the American dream at their leisure... and with our approval. No, you cannot win this game, nor should you like it.

Marini -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:42:49 PM)
You are attempting to put words in my mouth. What I have said is clear. Trying to alter what I never said, shows who you are. Clearly

Gauge -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:47:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini You are attempting to put words in my mouth. What I have said is clear. Trying to alter what I never said, shows who you are. Clearly I don't have to alter your words. Not at all. You made my point for me. What shows who I am is that I have a good understanding of a subject and an even better understanding of political ploys to divert attention from the real problems. Ask around, I am one of the more level headed posters down here.

Marini -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:48:49 PM)
I am hardly new here. I have been here 10 years. I know how many are down here. I put on my big girl panties, and keep it moving. Take care Peace

Aylee -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 8:53:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: ORIGINAL: Marini sshhh Aylee, we are not supposed to be that smart. Our economy is stagnant, and hardly vibrant, how the hell is all of this sustainable? Does anyone care about the millions of citizens already here, that are going hungry? homeless? unable to make ends meet?/ or the decimation of a large portion of the struggling middle class? Does anyone care about the citizens that have been unable to gain employment or are underemployed? I would just like to see a LITTLE of this concern/or maybe some of it put into helping the millions that are already here and struggling like hell. Seriously, does anyone care about the millions already here that are not doing well at all? They didn't care before, why the fuck should anyone start now? If you think that immigration caused this, you don't understand the problem. If you like your lawn care worker, you can keep your lawn care worker! YAY!

BamaD -> RE: President Obama prepared to go it alone on Thursday (11/20/2014 9:15:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gauge quote: ORIGINAL: Marini If millions are coming here to work, and surely not coming to get entitlement programs, than discussing the employment situation and economic conditions of the existing citizenry is indeed "relevant". Oh. I thought you said immigration didn't cause that. My mistake. Illegals didn't cause the problem, but encouraging more to come will make it worse.

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