RE: US Health Care Costs

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DesideriScuri -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 8:00:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: Marini We still need single payer national health insurance. I agree but I don't believe its going to be happening in America any time soon. Whilst the Brits proudly boast of their NHS and single payment NHI, our British government are slowly selling us down the river and have every intention of jumping on the American gravy train. Once something is privatized its very difficult to un-privatize it. I think it might be more accurate to say that once something changes from private/public to the other, it's difficult to go back. We in the States look at it as "once it's given up to government, it's very difficult to get back." That was part of the reason there was such an incredible push to pass Obamacare. They knew that once it was passed, there would be enough people benefiting from it to keep it on the books. That is, there would be enough votes bought by hand outs from Obamacare to keep it on the books. Reagan put it thusly: "No government ever voluntarily reduces itself in size. Government programs, once launched, never disappear. Actually, a government bureau is the nearest thing to eternal life we'll ever see on this earth!" You said it like it's a bad thing... Votes bought by handouts may well completely destroy our society as we know it FFS, eulero! Now you have me agreeing with Sanity!!

Sanity -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 8:14:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB @ Some of the high costs we see in the US have to do with people living longer and thereby requiring more and more expensive treatments as people age Whilst we may all be living longer, the US doesn't score very high on the scale when it comes to life expectancy. According to WHO, maternal mortality rate is higher in the US than the rate in more than 30 other countries and a study that was done in 2010 measured the best care available throughout a country, the US comes 54th behind Bangladesh and comes well behind Bosnia in life expectancy. quote: Ill-Conceived Ranking Makes for Unhealthy Debate In the Wrangle Over Health Care, a Low Rating for the U.S. System Keeps Emerging Despite Evident Shortcomings in Study http://online.wsj.com/articles/SB125608054324397621

Sanity -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 8:25:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri FFS, eulero! Now you have me agreeing with Sanity!! You are a fool if you think eulero has anything to do with our agreeing on this

Lucylastic -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 8:36:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic could you point out where this is proven to have worked? As was so helpfully pointed out here many of the economies that have gone single payer are in meltdown So I dont think it can possibly hurt so no you cant or have any facts to back it up. You dont think it can hurt... [8\|] that says it all.

Lucylastic -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 8:48:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic your claim was that "Lack of insurance hasn't killed a single person" you are right, the virus, or the illness killed them, THANK YOU!!! quote: but it makes the situation a lot worse and its and is even rhetorically disingenuous. Having insurance doesnt save your life in the US having money to give to bean counters does. Its a great system for those that can afford it the rest can fuck off. And, that's why I want to know why the cost of care is so fucking high, Lucy! It IS a great system for those that can afford it. If costs were lower, even more people could afford it (with or without insurance). And, more people would be able to afford insurance. while you are finding out why it costs so much, people are dying because they cant get their healthcare needs covered, im sure they are really thankful for your thoughts and fart arsing around insisting that if costs were lower more people would be able to afford it...we have seen that no one in the industry is interested in cutting costs on their own. They could, they should, but they wont. who is going to stop it? no one. Greed greed and ugliness.

smileforme50 -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 9:09:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail Yeah, we got into getting rid of slavery late, getting women the right to vote late, WWI and WWII late........you're right, its hopeless, lets give up. As far as getting rid of slavery....as I mentioned before....the population and economy of our country was a hell of a lot smaller than it was now. Plus....outlawing slavery didn't result in the direct development of a massive financial project to be managed by the government. It definitely changed the economy and a lot of people suffered, but the government didn't step in and take over control. And women's voting rights???? What the hell does that have anything have to do with it? What huge economic program are taxpayers supporting as a direct result of the 19th Amendment?

cloudboy -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 9:29:22 AM)
The NYT has an investigative reporter, Elizabeth Rosenthal, who has been covering this issue in depth for a long time. Here an example of her reporting: The 2.7 Trillion Dollar Medical Bill

eulero83 -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 9:31:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 You said it like it's a bad thing... Votes bought by handouts may well completely destroy our society as we know it FFS, eulero! Now you have me agreeing with Sanity!! that's kind my point you (and some other conservatives here on the forum) seem your only problem is who will win the elections, while for those persons who couldn't afford an health insurance was a serious quality of life matters, that law addressed the problem, by flooding more money into private businesses, but it addressed it, and your biggest concearn was that 1 it could actually work. By the way you are also inplying the problem was widespread enought to impact on elections. Just say you don't want to live in a democracy, I still have not figured out if you don't want a governament at all or a repubblican dictatorship.

eulero83 -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 9:53:24 AM)
by the way sorry Desideriscuri I haven't addressed your original question, why do health care costs so much in the USA, because health care is considered as a common good or service, while the main difference with health care is you can't decide if buying it or not it just happens and you are forced to do so or in most cases have a shitty life in a lot of cases die. So how does market works you ask the price it maximize your profits and who can't afford it is "out of market". The maximum price is apparently 80% of the maximum amount of money health insurance can raise. It has nothing to do with the mere costs of procedures because there is no competition or choice the only limit is that “You can shear a sheep a lot of times, but you can only skin him once.”.

MariaB -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 9:55:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Insurance companies are mandated to pay out a minimum of 80% of their collected premiums directly towards paying for care, or reimburse policy holders until that 80% mark is reached. The most an insurance company can keep is 20%, out of which it still has to pay for everything outside of care costs (ie. salaries, bonuses, overhead, etc.). They have to pay out at least 80%. That's the law. Surely you understand how bonus, dividends and a dozen other ways profits are worked out for corporate finance/shareholders? I fully understand the cap on profits and how profits for business are worked out. Do you honestly believe that there are no fat cats getting rich on your insurance contributions whilst only showing a 20% profit?

Sanity -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 10:02:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic so no you cant or have any facts to back it up. You dont think it can hurt... [8\|] that says it all. What truly says it all is that the places that employ the leftist solution are insolvent Unless they have vast oil wealth or some such crutch as that

MariaB -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 10:10:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The NYT has an investigative reporter, Elizabeth Rosenthal, who has been covering this issue in depth for a long time. Here an example of her reporting: The 2.7 Trillion Dollar Medical Bill Thanks for the link cloudboy. Those price comparisons are incredible. Thing is, if people really want to understand how 'THEIR' system works, they need to read educational works that are very specific to the subject and they need to read not just one mans account but a dozen. Repeatedly asking a kinky forum group why prices are so high just gives them the opportunity to resist the answers and come away from it with an even fuzzier head.

Lucylastic -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 10:11:15 AM)
not as fucked or deadly as your solution

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 10:24:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic your claim was that "Lack of insurance hasn't killed a single person" you are right, the virus, or the illness killed them, THANK YOU!!! quote: but it makes the situation a lot worse and its and is even rhetorically disingenuous. Having insurance doesnt save your life in the US having money to give to bean counters does. Its a great system for those that can afford it the rest can fuck off. And, that's why I want to know why the cost of care is so fucking high, Lucy! It IS a great system for those that can afford it. If costs were lower, even more people could afford it (with or without insurance). And, more people would be able to afford insurance. while you are finding out why it costs so much, people are dying because they cant get their healthcare needs covered, im sure they are really thankful for your thoughts and fart arsing around insisting that if costs were lower more people would be able to afford it...we have seen that no one in the industry is interested in cutting costs on their own. They could, they should, but they wont. who is going to stop it? no one. Greed greed and ugliness. Why should they cut costs? There is no incentive for them to do so. Why? Why can a Dr. charge as much as he/she does? Because he/she is in a "protected" class. The AMA has a virtual monopoly in deciding who can, who can't, and how many can/can't become doctors. It behooves them to keep the number of Dr.'s low, so their rates stay high. Thank you, Federal Government! Health care providers are owned by the health care financiers. That's a conflict of interest if I've ever seen one! Shouldn't that be something the SEC/FTC/BMOC or whoever separates? When the two are wed, hospitals can continue to increase charges because insurance companies can just go to their policyholders and increase premiums. When the two are wed, the insurance end can stay lean and let the hospitals make up the profits. And, with reimbursements for charity care, hospitals have an incentive to increase their costs to pretend they are shelling out massive amounts of money in charity care (which also helps mask their profits). Big Pharma can also make claims about charitable offerings, and keeping their drug prices high makes it easy for them to hide their profits, too. If a $1 COG pill can be written off as a $10 pill, why not do that? So, no, they have no reason to lower costs. Obamacare isn't going to do that. Romneycare didn't do that. Keeping the roadblocks to entrance into the field protects those already in the field. That applies across all sectors. The VA has troubles. Why? I know, I know, Republicans reducing funding, yada yada yada. When the Democrats were in control, it wasn't fixed, either, so maybe it's not just Republicans? When did Canada change to state(Province)-funded health care? What were the costs in the years leading up to that, and what's happened since? The current system started in 1984, didn't it? [image]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/0a/Health_care_cost_rise.svg/896px-Health_care_cost_rise.svg.png[/image] As a %GDP, all 6 of those countries health care spend trend alike, don't they? The ups and downs are pretty much there for each country, but the magnitudes of those changes are different.

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 10:33:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The NYT has an investigative reporter, Elizabeth Rosenthal, who has been covering this issue in depth for a long time. Here an example of her reporting: The 2.7 Trillion Dollar Medical Bill That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about, cloudboy. Everyone agrees something needs to be done about health care costs. We don't agree on what needs to be done. Just passing something to say something was done is about as stupid as not passing anything, imo.

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 10:35:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 You said it like it's a bad thing... Votes bought by handouts may well completely destroy our society as we know it FFS, eulero! Now you have me agreeing with Sanity!! that's kind my point you (and some other conservatives here on the forum) seem your only problem is who will win the elections, while for those persons who couldn't afford an health insurance was a serious quality of life matters, that law addressed the problem, by flooding more money into private businesses, but it addressed it, and your biggest concearn was that 1 it could actually work. By the way you are also inplying the problem was widespread enought to impact on elections. Just say you don't want to live in a democracy, I still have not figured out if you don't want a governament at all or a repubblican dictatorship. We have a representative republic here. You haven't figured out what government I want because you don't really care what government I want. You only care about what you think we should have, or what you think I should want.

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 10:36:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: eulero83 by the way sorry Desideriscuri I haven't addressed your original question, why do health care costs so much in the USA, because health care is considered as a common good or service, while the main difference with health care is you can't decide if buying it or not it just happens and you are forced to do so or in most cases have a shitty life in a lot of cases die. So how does market works you ask the price it maximize your profits and who can't afford it is "out of market". The maximum price is apparently 80% of the maximum amount of money health insurance can raise. It has nothing to do with the mere costs of procedures because there is no competition or choice the only limit is that “You can shear a sheep a lot of times, but you can only skin him once.”. Are you really saying that the costs of procedures has nothing to do with the cost of insurance, or how much money is spent for health care?!?

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 10:40:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri Insurance companies are mandated to pay out a minimum of 80% of their collected premiums directly towards paying for care, or reimburse policy holders until that 80% mark is reached. The most an insurance company can keep is 20%, out of which it still has to pay for everything outside of care costs (ie. salaries, bonuses, overhead, etc.). They have to pay out at least 80%. That's the law. Surely you understand how bonus, dividends and a dozen other ways profits are worked out for corporate finance/shareholders? I fully understand the cap on profits and how profits for business are worked out. Do you honestly believe that there are no fat cats getting rich on your insurance contributions whilst only showing a 20% profit? They aren't showing a 20% profit. The only way they could do that is if there was $0 in spending outside of care spending. That is, if they didn't have any utility bills, salaries, office products bills, etc. to pay. The 20% that insurance companies are allowed to "keep" pays for employees, facilities, etc. (and, yes, profits). The 80% is a minimum, too. It's potentially possible that actual care costs will be over 100% (if that happens, though, some heads are going to roll) of the premiums collected.

DesideriScuri -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 10:41:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The NYT has an investigative reporter, Elizabeth Rosenthal, who has been covering this issue in depth for a long time. Here an example of her reporting: The 2.7 Trillion Dollar Medical Bill Thanks for the link cloudboy. Those price comparisons are incredible. Thing is, if people really want to understand how 'THEIR' system works, they need to read educational works that are very specific to the subject and they need to read not just one mans account but a dozen. Repeatedly asking a kinky forum group why prices are so high just gives them the opportunity to resist the answers and come away from it with an even fuzzier head. Hey now. I shave my head so it doesn't get fuzzy.

MariaB -> RE: US Health Care Costs (11/23/2014 10:46:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesideriScuri quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy The NYT has an investigative reporter, Elizabeth Rosenthal, who has been covering this issue in depth for a long time. Here an example of her reporting: The 2.7 Trillion Dollar Medical Bill Thanks for the link cloudboy. Those price comparisons are incredible. Thing is, if people really want to understand how 'THEIR' system works, they need to read educational works that are very specific to the subject and they need to read not just one mans account but a dozen. Repeatedly asking a kinky forum group why prices are so high just gives them the opportunity to resist the answers and come away from it with an even fuzzier head. Hey now. I shave my head so it doesn't get fuzzy. Yep but its coming out of your chin ;)

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