The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion



Message

NookieNotes -> The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 5:09:59 AM)

I wrote this as a response to another thread, and realized that it would be interesting as a stand-alone discussion, with illustrations. Here goes. *smiles*

I used to think that dominance and submission were on a continuum:


[image]http://houseofgreed.com/images/ds1.png[/image]


And people fell somewhere along this line:


[image]http://houseofgreed.com/images/ds1a.png[/image]


Now, after many conversations on the topic, really exploring my switchy side, understanding what it means to truly submit, and interacting with those who submit on different levels while simultaneously being dominant, I see submission and dominance more as concurrent sliders on a audio board:


[image]http://houseofgreed.com/images/ds2.png[/image]


Example 1

A submissive may be a very dominant (leading) person, willing to take responsibility, and able to, while simultaneously DESIRING to let that go strongly, making him/her very submissive at the right times or with the right person.

Example 2

A dominant, who has no submission whatsoever may still be above-average in dominance, and still not as dominant as that submissive:


[image]http://houseofgreed.com/images/ds3.png[/image]


This leads me to a more tolerant way of looking at titles and dynamics, understanding the fluidity of humans, and their desire for a leader, or a follower, or a partner that has the right mix at the best levels to blend harmoniously.

Thoughts?

I should say this thought is not mine. It was posited to me originally by ColdHeartedBastard about this time last year. I just now got around to putting it into words and images.



ExiledTyrant -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 6:08:25 AM)

Far too cut and dry, Nookie.

[img]http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2011/312/b/e/equalizer___rainbow_style_by_mystica_264-d4fia0p.png[/img]

Red: Relationship Domination (ability to lead).
Orange: Mental Domination.
Yellow/orange: Emotional Domination.
Yellow: Physical Domination.
Yellow/green: Financial Responsibility.
Light Green: Domestic Responsibility.

and so on...

We could even say that the tiny bar could be "work ethic".

Someone with their D bars maxed out would be a control freak sociopath from hell. A D/s dynamic is meant to compliment a life, not complicate it. Where my bars fall short, I should be able to, in theory, rely on her bar riding high.

I am a SUCK short term friend. I get off into my own thing and get so wrapped up in what I am doing and I don't call, write, text... I vanish from the planet... because when I can get out and get'er done, I'm 100% invested in that. I am a descent long term friend. You'll hear from me on special occasions, if my bedrooms are all full the couch is still yours, if you are a very dear friend, I may not help you move, but I will help you move a body.

Because I am such a SUCK friend, a /s can smooth a lot of that out for me unless she sucks at it as much as I do, so it is in my best interest to have a /s that has their "awesome short term friend bar" maxed out, then all have to say is, "bitch, isn't it your third cousins, uncle's roommates, college buddies, daughter from his ninth marriage, best friends nephews girl friends b-day? Doncha you think you should send an e-card, huh, huh, huh... get'er done!

Jus sayin



NookieNotes -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 6:51:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Far too cut and dry, Nookie.



It's a starting place. LOL!

There are so many different measurements. Work. Children. Hobbies. etc... This is an overall.

Of course it can be broken down.

But simplification is critical for the wider audience and good discussion.



FieryOpal -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 7:15:44 AM)

~ FR ~
Nookie, this is only a quick response to a fairly complex topic. Not that it has to be, but it can be when one is on the outside looking in.

What I see are linear-sequential models. Relationship dynamics have dimensionality. They converge inwards, they ripple outwards, they spiral upwards (ideally upwards and not plummeting downwards!)...

Take ExiledTyrant's color spectrum bargraph (where indigo purple and ultraviolet can be the wildcards), and loop it around to give it added dimensionality.

There are too many D/s-type unions, whether short term or long term, which are flat or which end up falling flat.
This is when the D/ is expected to fill a boxed-in "D" role across the board, when the /s is expected to fill a boxed-in "s" role across the board.

It might work for some people, but ultimately both D/s partners (other than for a short window of time, such as with scening or sessioning between play partners) end up becoming slaves to their respective uni-dimensional roles.



CaptR -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 7:52:29 AM)

My imagination wants to embrace this.
My lack of statistical knowledge limits me
My question is how possible is it to quantify life on a bar graph or sliding scale with any hope of accuracy?
Help me understand.



NookieNotes -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 8:09:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FieryOpal

~ FR ~


What's this mean? *smiles*

quote:

What I see are linear-sequential models. Relationship dynamics have dimensionality. They converge inwards, they ripple outwards, they spiral upwards (ideally upwards and not plummeting downwards!)...


Agreed.

What I find fascinating is that There are many men who others consider dominant. Who they respect. Etc.

I do not find them particularly dominant in their actions with me. And I don't mean, "Call me sir!" I mean just natural behavior. I intimidate them, upset them easily, etc.

Those things, to my mind, are signs they are not as dominant and in control as a "dominant" should be.

Now, it's not just me. I have talked to many about this. It's not that I don't think they are dominant. It's that I don't think they are more dominant than I.

And in many cases are not more dominant than some of my more dominant submissive friends, who have no desire to be dominant, but are still too much for the men to handle, simply by their nature. They submit, but it ends up going sideways because they are naturally dominant in many ways.

Yes, I know it's simplified.

*smiles*

quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptR

My imagination wants to embrace this.
My lack of statistical knowledge limits me
My question is how possible is it to quantify life on a bar graph or sliding scale with any hope of accuracy?
Help me understand.


I have no interest in quantifying life on any sort of graph. I am using graphs as illustrations of simplified concepts. Nothing more.

Essentially saying, You are not dominant OR submissive. You have levels of both, and those levels plus your desires determine not only the roles you play, but the people you can play them with compatibly.



ExiledTyrant -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 8:24:00 AM)

~FR~

Fast Reply to know one in particular... damn it woman, get with the program already!

Jus sayin



NookieNotes -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 8:46:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

~FR~

Fast Reply to know one in particular... damn it woman, get with the program already!

Jus sayin


TY. I'm slow. I can't help it. *smiles*



DeviantlyD -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 8:48:41 AM)

Perhaps I'm interpreting the OP's posts incorrectly, but my impression is that the theory is a two dimensional aspect being applied to a multidimensional dynamic.

The sliding scale presented by the OP may, in theoretical terms, look good on paper, but the practical application of it is quite different.

I wouldn't even say there is a spectrum as there is a mosaic and a melting pot of individuals who participate in WIITWD. Those two ideas may sound contradictory, but so are human relationships at times and certainly WIITWD are human relationships.

For me the D/s, M/s, S/m, D/s/s and so on dynamics can never be completely defined. It's all about what works with those inside the relationship.

I would be willing to bet (and I don't gamble) that each person on this site would offer up a different definition of what being dominant is, what being submissive is, what being sadistic is, etc. and how it pertains to their relationship(s).

From me there are dominant men I do not resonate with at all. Their approach leaves me cold. However, that isn't to say they aren't dominant to someone. They just don't resonate as dominant for me.

That's my take on it. YMMV.

Edited to add (and to correct a typo):

I would like to stress the idea (particularly to anyone new to this world) that there is no one size fits all definition of any particular "label" in WIITWD. It really does come down to finding that person (or persons) who fits you in a way that feels natural and positive. I guess it's the whole round peg square hole thing. If you attempt to make yourself square to fit into the appropriate hole, you're going to end up unhappy. (The double entendre there is entirely unintentional.) Dominants, submissives (and others) are too complex to be
quantified in a single scale.



CaptR -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 8:49:39 AM)

I'm stuck on the variables. There are so many compatibility seems less of a sure thing than paper might suggest. I'll respectfully bow out and defer to those who have higher knowledge.



NookieNotes -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 10:26:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

Dominants, submissives (and others) are too complex to be
quantified in a single scale.


Of course. This is ONE aspect—a narrow one— of a life.

D and s.

This does not take into account personal quirks, loving fantasy or sci-fi, a hatred of avocado, etc.



shiftyw -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 12:43:32 PM)

I think...my personality is pretty all over the board, I wish it were as straightforward as these bar graphs sometimes. However, most of the time I'm glad to just be a whole Chord, rather than one note.



NookieNotes -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 1:06:49 PM)

Hmmm.

I find it interesting that so many people are responding to this saying that it does not cover the whole range of human existence.

That means I was obviously not clear that I am only talking about two characteristics, dominance and submission. I am not talking about anyone's entire lives.

For example, You might use a peak flow meter to measure your breath strength. Now, you may find out you have a medium breath strength and exclaim to your doctor, "But I am also constipated!"

Well, ok.

How does that affect what we're discussing?

*smiles*

I'm not bitching at ya'll. I'm musing out loud to myself, wondering how I didn't make it clear that I was focusing only on two measurement points. Any feedback is welcome.

Thanks!



shiftyw -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 1:49:53 PM)

I think it's that this spills into all aspects pretty much across the board.

But yes, compatibility is complicated, even with just those two variables. I also don't think anyone has any 100% sub/Dom qualities, no matter what others might say.

I need a light hand, cause outside the bedroom, I like control. I don't really feel submissive when it comes to making decisions or choices, I'm a take charge person day to day. He is too, but he is quieter about it. In the bedroom, I need a boss, I like a boss. The "doms" that fit the bill for me need to be able to see that me driving the ship is sometimes a service to them.

It's complicated. That's my thoughts.



RockaRolla -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 2:10:52 PM)

The way this convo is going reminds me of one storyline in a comic I liked. Link because I don't know how page-stretchy this thing will be.

Tory makes the mistake of thinking that any D and s pairing with common kinks and interests is immediately compatible. Thing is, she's only looking at the bedroom stuff, with no thought to how they relate as people. The date she set up for Quinn was disastrous and short lived.

Like Ty said, there are more variables than a generic "Dominant" and "submissive."

Even if we talk about the generic D/s sliders, those can shift depending on your present situation and the people around you. I feel more the D at work and around unfamiliar people than when I'm with close friends or the boyfriend. But in the bedroom with one of my boys I'll often switch back to D.



FieryOpal -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 2:10:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DeviantlyD

I wouldn't even say there is a spectrum as there is a mosaic and a melting pot of individuals who participate in WIITWD....
There are persons I've known who are a mosaic unto themselves, or more like a jigsaw puzzle with a couple critical pieces missing.[sm=insane.gif]
(A slight improvement over a cheeseburger or a bag of fries short of a Happy Meal :@)

I suppose a matrix would be too much to ask? But seriously OP, where does being a S/switch fit into the picture in your opinion or experience, other than overlapping within ranges?

It isn't uncommon to hear of a form of S/switching where someone is sub to one gender (Ex: f/M, usually the primary partner), then wanting to dominate the other/their own gender (Ex: F/f).



DarkSteven -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 2:22:22 PM)

I know some people, especially women, that are very flexible. They can be a sub to one person, a Domme to another, a slave to another, and Top and bottom in play. Being Dom or sub is not exactly an inherent property of an individual - it also depends on who they're in a relationship with.



MrRodgers -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 2:31:28 PM)

Explain on any graph how a man charged with a crime, argued his own case against the ADA (Maryland) was found innocent and in less than 1 year...turned that very ADA into his absolute complete slave. (fact)

For all we know it's just like dancing...I lead...you follow. OR, a perpendicular expression of a...horizontal desire.



sexyred1 -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 2:36:37 PM)

I am a rainbow.

What does that tell you about me as a sub?



mstrjx -> RE: The Dominance / Submission Continuum Is An Incomplete Perspective (12/2/2014 2:47:06 PM)

I'm going to go out on a limb here, methinks.

In general, I agree with the OP. Our feelings/interests/fantasies/experiences can lead us to be positive or negative on the two scales, dominance and submission. Because we are different or have different life experiences and ideas that bring us to this moment in time, we will, by nature, vary on our personal 'maps'.

I believe there is value (no, there's ALWAYS value) in discovering within ourselves how we would best define ourselves. Where things tend to go wonky is that other people define us by a) what they perceive we are, b) how they might fit with those perceptions, c) their life experiences and perceptions. (I know that sounds really really vague).

How is it, if we look at profiles here and have conversations here and in r/t with other scene people, that switches get such a bad reputation. How is it that a person MUST be one thing or another. (Don't get me wrong, there will be people who are, or claim they are, exactly one thing or another.)

It seems to me that the more adept we are at our experiences, the more we can see the nature of the counterpart. For instance, virtually all of my experiences and by definition all of my relationships have been with me identifying as a dominant/Master/whatever. But because I have those years and years of experiences with more than one partner, I can evaluate submissive traits. I can see what it takes to be a slave. (in fact, 's' types might disagree with me but I think with the correct headspace being a slave has to be one of the easiest things EVER.) But seeing that 's' side becomes easier with the 'd' side has been dialled up so much over the years.

So perhaps experience, one way or the other, helps define the extent that we can place ourselves on those two sliding scales.

Jeff



Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy
0.046875