RE: hazing new posters (Full Version)

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SDFemDom4cuck -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 7:24:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr


quote:

ORIGINAL: SDFemDom4cuck


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

So just in case somebody hasn't heard my spiel by now I'm often horrified by the way new posters are treated around here. Upon stating this in the past I've received the response that usually the new poster does something to instigate the responses and I think that's true.

Sometimes it's the case that the poster has an uncommon kink that doesn't fit in around here, but should we really be throwing rocks over that, seems to me an awful lot like we're living in a glass house on this one.

Sometimes the poster stumbles onto a hotbutton topic, but really how can we reasonably expect someone new to know where all the mines are buried?

Sometimes it's that the poster makes some spelling mistakes or doesn't express themselves well. Thing is expressing oneself on a forum is a skill and we're talking about posters who are new. It's a very rare person who's perfect at well just about anything their first time.

Don't get me wrong, there are work arounds to these problems: learning to post elsewhere/a substantial amount of lurking. But isn't that setting an awfully high bar to be allowed to post here without getting heckled off the site?

I mean we're basically asking new posters to hit the ground running in the middle of a mine field, is it at all surprising that has a tendency of not working out very well!

About this time in my argument someone's apt to make a comment about this is just how it is. Thing is that's not actually true, I can point to examples both in meat space and on fet of communities who are night and day different, think about it for a second, can't all of you do the same?



Actually there was a time it was far worse. I essentially stopped posting completely in Ask A Mistress quite awhile back because of some of the utter crap thst was going on there. Why can't people remember there was a time when they were a newb, and curious, and had 11ty billion questions. Why can't we treat one another with basic human decency within these boards. There's enough hate out there in the world. Why not just answer the question? I miss BitaTrouble. The absolute Queen when it came to linking to previous threads. Sigh.


I think you may be referencing LuckyAlbatross, here?



Michael



Ah yes LA it was. Far better memory than mine. Although I do miss Bita as well!



sexyred1 -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 11:03:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

An interesting note on culture differences:

https://fetlife.com/groups/361/group_posts/6329825
Here's a conversation that ended up getting into cannibalism fetishes. Nobody felt the need to come in just to judge, or criticize. It's an entirely positive conversation about how they can be fulfilled and SSC through role-playing.


Whereas over here we can't even have a bit of play piercing come up without being judgmental:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Born2BBound72

quote:

Ive been sewn closed

@DerangedUnit you mean actually sewn, as in a needle and thread?


quote:

ORIGINAL:
quote:

ORIGINAL:
Sorry, but that is an example of a bad kink.

Yes, I know I am judging.

Shudders.

"Shudders"..... [sm=agree.gif]




First off, she said she was seen shut with a needle and thread, therefore that is not play piercing.

If Fet is so much more welcoming of kinks, then hang out there instead of constantly whining here.






RockaRolla -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 1:54:07 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

I am on the side of the gun toter here.

Fuck, it's not my thing.

But the "Safe" in SSC isn't intended to mean 100% safe, otherwise we wouldn't do anything even faintly risky. It really means "safe enough" for the people concerned.

Jesus.. Skydiving is - to me - absurdly unsafe, but I'm not inclined to get squirrelly about it.

Another issue with SSC is that many people, even on this board, use it as a blanket term for whatever kink they like and are somewhat aware of the risks. Anything is apparently SSC "if you know what you're doing."

Um, no. There is such a thing as RACK, or PRICK (and while I know what they stand for, can anyone tell me if there's a meaningful difference between the two?) and being able to recognize your kink as such is important. Strangle fucking (for example) is no SSC, and pointing this out to a defensive user is not hazing. Nor is it calling that kink wrong.



NorthernGent -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 2:06:43 PM)

I used to post here a long time back, and what you say applied much more in those days than it does now in my mind.

I went away for a while, prison obviously, and upon my return say 6 months back I've found it much more sedate and reasonable.

I haven't seen anyone really given a hard time recently, but about 4 year back it was a free-for-all and a lunatics paradise just about any time anyone new opened their mouths.

I don't even see any cliques anymore, but in the those days it was like being stuck in the middle of an impenetrable South American rain forest with pre-evolutionary tribes shoving darts with poisoned tips in one another's eyes.

Clearly this was the minority, but the minority these days is non-existent by comparison.




cloudboy -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 3:24:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

techinically...none of it is hazing:
haze:

To persecute or harass with meaningless, difficult, or humiliating tasks.

To initiate, as into a college fraternity, by exacting humiliating performances from or playing rough practical jokes upon.


I would not dispute that point,



cloudboy -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 3:38:34 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy


Aakasha once started a thread colorably in defense of hazing. Her premise was that deluded malesubs should be slapped upside the head. For her, instead of "hazing" the rough treatment of an OP was a valid, well earned, and deserved reality check.

http://www.collarchat.com/m_3018666/mpage_1/key_fat%252Cthreads%252Casshole/tm.htm#3019073

I took issue with her position.

I agree with her, but disagree with the idea that the responses that she was advocating are a slap upside the head or "hazing."

Now, if we're talking about a sub who whines because he can't meet a woman who wants to piss all over him or ballbust him, he's liable to get responses from plenty of femdoms who remind him their demographic doesn't exist to satisfy his fantasies. But that doesn't seem to be what she's talking about.


One problem I have consistently had with Aakasha is positioning. Specifically the Solzhenitsyn principle of "A man who is warm can't understand a man who is cold."

Aakahsa (from what I've read) has never lacked for a partner, attention, or D/S opportunities.

Malesubs, on the other hand, face real challanges: the bad numbers game, the unrequited kink-interests, etc. Frankly, I just have more sympathy for maie subs because I understand their minority standing and difficulties.

Aside from that I have another problem with "those who give advice." If something is not my kink, it is very hard for me to give advice about it. Let's take diapers as an example. Now, it's quite easy for me to be critical of the diaperist, but much more challenging to be helpful. Also, I don't think the diaperist needs me to tell him few are interested in his orientation.

I will close by saying I've seen countless "diaperists" (minority kinksters) either skewered or dismissed. One time SimplyMicheal asked respondents (regarding a diaperist) "is is it really that hard to find common ground" here. "Use your imagination," he said. I agreed with him 100%.

Last thing I will say. One BDSM thing that creeps me out is femsubs seeking Daddies or referring to their partner as "my daddy." Notwithstanding how I feel about this, I have never (as in not one time) said a negative thing about this on these forums. (This is actually my first post about it.)







CreativeDominant -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 3:47:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel

An interesting note on culture differences:

https://fetlife.com/groups/361/group_posts/6329825
Here's a conversation that ended up getting into cannibalism fetishes. Nobody felt the need to come in just to judge, or criticize. It's an entirely positive conversation about how they can be fulfilled and SSC through role-playing.


Whereas over here we can't even have a bit of play piercing come up without being judgmental:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Born2BBound72

quote:

Ive been sewn closed

@DerangedUnit you mean actually sewn, as in a needle and thread?


quote:

ORIGINAL:
quote:

ORIGINAL:
Sorry, but that is an example of a bad kink.

Yes, I know I am judging.

Shudders.

"Shudders"..... [sm=agree.gif]




First off, she said she was seen shut with a needle and thread, therefore that is not play piercing.

If Fet is so much more welcoming of kinks, then hang out there instead of constantly whining here.

Exactly.

You be got two kink sites. Ones fairly easy to navigate but the posters there, especially those with some age....And/or experience...And/or common sense...tend to be a little rough on those who ask about things way, way, way outside the norm. They don't tend to be a "Kum-bay-ahhhh" group (witness Politics and Religion posts) but they will take the time to help someone with an honest question about something.

The other site has welcoming posters with threads that welcome every kink under the rainbow...even those just shy of being criminal. You might even find the mythic unicorn there.

Take your choice but then, stop whining when the one you choose isn't like the other.
just GO to the other.



RockaRolla -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 4:05:29 PM)

Wait a minute! I don't remember writing that post.



AAkasha -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 4:07:44 PM)


Ugh, sorry, rookie mistake with the quoting. Too late for me to go back and edit, maybe a mod can fix it. Sorry about that RockaRolla.



Moderator3 -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 4:14:50 PM)

I deleted the post. You can repost it.



RockaRolla -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 4:17:36 PM)

All good, just got confused. "How drunk was I?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

Malesubs, on the other hand, face real challanges: the bad numbers game, the unrequited kink-interests, etc. Frankly, I just have more sympathy for maie subs because I understand their minority standing and difficulties.

Aside from that I have another problem with "those who give advice." If something is not my kink, it is very hard for me to give advice about it. Let's take diapers as an example. Now, it's quite easy for me to be critical of the diaperist, but much more challenging to be helpful. Also, I don't think the diaperist needs me to tell him few are interested in his orientation.


Please, allow me to weep for those males who can't find their ballbusting itch scratched.

All demographics have "real" challenges besides the poor, unloved malesub. I'll take the malesub dilemma of having uncommon kinks that few will fulfill without pay than the common female dilemma of being any old guy's fair target for abuse.

If you think males have it harder on personals sites and we should feel sorry for them, you're deluding yourself.

As for the advice: few of the "hazed" threads I see are about asking for advice. They're more in the "may or may not be looking for a partner but won't be upfront" vein. Recently there was a thread from a guy asking why it was so hard for women to give him a *good* golden shower. "Use your imagination" can apply there too. When reminded that not all women are into that particular act, he was dumbfounded because his ex found it a huge turn on.

Good for you, not being negative and all. One thing about the scene that bothers me is the practice of unicorn hunting. If I see a couple approaching the "looking for a girl to join our family, where is she?" kind of entitled attitude, I'm going to call them out on it. Is it negative? Yes. But there are new posters out there who need that kind of negative response to know that their attitudes and the way they're treating potential partners is not okay. You don't get a pass on negativity because you're "new" or face the "real challenges" of not having your itch scratched. One should assume that people are going into things like this as adults, and should know how to conduct themselves accordingly.



GotSteel -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 6:39:33 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
techinically...none of it is hazing:
haze:

To persecute or harass with meaningless, difficult, or humiliating tasks.

To initiate, as into a college fraternity, by exacting humiliating performances from or playing rough practical jokes upon.


There are broader dictionary definitions of hazing and if you start looking at the definitions colleges are using you will find some extremely broad ones out there.

It's not hard at all to find the sort of things we're talking about:

https://www.google.com/search?q=hazing+verbal+abuse



GotSteel -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 7:08:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
First off, she said she was seen shut with a needle and thread, therefore that is not play piercing.


How doesn't that not qualify as play piercing?




shiftyw -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 7:09:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GotSteel


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
techinically...none of it is hazing:
haze:

To persecute or harass with meaningless, difficult, or humiliating tasks.

To initiate, as into a college fraternity, by exacting humiliating performances from or playing rough practical jokes upon.


There are broader dictionary definitions of hazing and if you start looking at the definitions colleges are using you will find some extremely broad ones out there.

It's not hard at all to find the sort of things we're talking about:

https://www.google.com/search?q=hazing+verbal+abuse




I SUPPOSE so.

Also- sometimes people just need a slap and if you go against my own personal morals real hard- I'm probably going to butt heads with you, or at least point out what a misogynist you are.

see the "cuck queen" thread over in Poly...



sexyred1 -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 7:15:43 PM)


You make zero sense. You said we are judgemental over a woman who had her pussy sewn shut, and you viewed that as play piercing.

Find some who will pretend to cut off your dick, ya know play castration.

Then, find someone to actually cut your dick off with a sharp knife.

Then ask your stupid question again.




GotSteel -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 7:23:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla
Strangle fucking (for example) is no SSC, and pointing this out to a defensive user is not hazing.

No, not in and of itself. I'd furthermore say that it's important to point out to previously uninformed "users". However, we've classically had a culture where that informing can easily get mixed with hazing, cyber bullying or bigotry.

quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla
Nor is it calling that kink wrong.

No that wouldn't constitute hazing unless of course it involves different standards for new users.



GotSteel -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 7:39:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
You make zero sense. You said we are judgemental over a woman who had her pussy sewn shut, and you viewed that as play piercing.

Yes, as I understand play piercing that falls within the realm of play piercing.


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
Find some who will pretend to cut off your dick, ya know play castration.

Then, find someone to actually cut your dick off with a sharp knife.

Then ask your stupid question again.

Wait a second, do you not know what play piercing is?

The "play" doesn't mean pretend, it means for fun. In other words temporary rather than permanent piercings.





cloudboy -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 7:40:07 PM)

That's all fine, but my use of malesubs here is not to particularize them but to furnish an example -- namely to offer support to individuals who have hardships. This would also include "the common female dilemma of being any old guy's fair target for abuse." I might add, too, I sympathize with the female slave who's Master has decided "we are becoming poly" and I've colored a young, new blonde girl into our household.

Hardships are many and spread wide across the spectrum, but those living in plenty (have a partner, having their kinks fulfilled, etc.) don't help by offering advice that inherently blames a struggling, lonely, unfulfilled, inexperienced person for their situation.



GotSteel -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 8:00:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw
I SUPPOSE so.

Also- sometimes people just need a slap and if you go against my own personal morals real hard- I'm probably going to butt heads with you, or at least point out what a misogynist you are.

see the "cuck queen" thread over in Poly...


So here's the thing calling a misogynist a misogynist is way out side the scope of this thread. I've tried to point out several different ways now that this isn't supposed to be about things never getting heated. Just all those times where there's no particularly good reason for it. Whereas for whatever reason people keep trying to switch the conversation to the most justifiable cases they can find.



AAkasha -> RE: hazing new posters (12/13/2014 8:38:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cloudboy

That's all fine, but my use of malesubs here is not to particularize them but to furnish an example -- namely to offer support to individuals who have hardships. This would also include "the common female dilemma of being any old guy's fair target for abuse." I might add, too, I sympathize with the female slave who's Master has decided "we are becoming poly" and I've colored a young, new blonde girl into our household.

Hardships are many and spread wide across the spectrum, but those living in plenty (have a partner, having their kinks fulfilled, etc.) don't help by offering advice that inherently blames a struggling, lonely, unfulfilled, inexperienced person for their situation.



So again, in the thread that you pulled up that I started (In 2010) I said:



"If we can't rely on message boards like this one to bring the balance between fantasy and reality in line, then submissives will just continue to believe that female domination is just like it is in porn. And it isn't. So ladies, keep telling the OP "No, just not into that." -- but maybe, let's try to do a little more, "No, OP, not into that - but, here's what I *am* into, which sounds closer to what you want, but in a more real world kind of way." "

So I will repeat:

Where do you think "I'm not into that, but here's what I am into which sounds closer to what you want in a real world kind of way" is "hazing"? It's the opposite. It's not bashing people for coming in with their kinks (especially the obscure ones) but trying to give them a rational, real world explanation.

Later in that thread (which was in 2010) I admitted that after some self reflection I think I had been too hard on people and I made an effort to try to not post anything that could be seen as bashing since then. I chalked up the (poor) excuse for it as the fact that we women get bombarded with kinks all day long and should not carry that baggage into here when someone innocently posts a question that may not be phrased right or may be horribly misguided.


Tell me just what was unfair, unrealistic, hazing, or cruel to the male subs we are discussing here -- vs. being an advocate for being kinder to them?

I have no idea why you looked for a thread from 2010, decided to bring up that I am in a good relationship with other partners, and somehow that makes me inappropriate to posters who have not been so lucky when that entire thread my point was to tell people to stop snapping at guys that post "Is anyone into (my fetish)" and instead give them helpful advice.

Talk about reaching.

Akasha



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