com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (Full Version)

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NookieNotes -> com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 6:30:05 AM)

I wrote this the other day, and didn't post here, but GoddessManko said something that ties in with this, so I'm going ahead.

The dictionary defines communication thusly:

quote:

the act or process of transmitting information (as about ideas, attitudes, emotions, or objective behavior)


Which, of course it is.

And to clarify further, let’s define transmit:

quote:

cause (something) to pass on from one place or person to another.


Using these two definitions, I think we would all agree that standing in one room, talking in a normal voice to your partner across the house in another room is not communication.

That is, unless you are doing it on a mobile, or otherwise have some sort of verification that the transmission was received, yes?

I’m going to assume you’re agreeing with me, here. Because, well, you’re on the internet, and I can, since this is my writing.

*smiles*

Anyway…

So, the definition of communication has two parts:

1. The act of transmission
2. Information

So, we just agreed above that you have not communicated if the transmission is not confirmed.

Right?

So, what if the information is not confirmed?

By the definition, if the information we are transmitting is not confirmed, we are not communicating.

Agreed? I know you do! LOL!

So, how is the information we have transmitted confirmed? With response.

Right?

We know we have transmitted something and that it has been received with a response.

Example:

I text: I want you to send me a photo of yourself that represents you in this moment, showing me that you are thinking of me.

Pet replies: Yes MQ (short for My Queen). PHOTO (meets my requirements)

So, in this example, there are three pieces of feedback to show that the information I transmitted was received:

1. Yes MQ.
2. Photo
3. Photo meets my requirements

If any of these were missing, would my communication still be a success? Let’s look.

Yes MQ.
If this was missing, but the other two feedbacks were present, then I say we can still consider my communication a success.

Photo
If this was missing, then the third would also be missing. Communication fail.

Photo meets my requirements
If this were missing, but the other two were in place, it would still be a communication fail, yes? Because the information I attempted to transmit was not received, even though the transmission was. Communication fail.

Now, here is where it gets dicey.

What if he got my text (transmission received), and misunderstood my information?

Who is at fault?

Is it him for misunderstanding?

Or is it me for not framing the information more clearly to him?

Before I answer this, let me continue on with another hypothetical…

What if he got my text (transmission received), understood my information, and chose not to act?

Who is at fault?

Is it him for being a brat, or sulking, passive aggressive, or topping from the bottom?

Or is it me for not transmitting the right information in a way that convinces him to respond properly?

I’ll give you my POV. And here is where I’m sure I’ll lose some of you:

Communication is not the words you say, it is the response you get.

Many people would say that communication between two people is 50/50.

I say that’s bullshit. I shoot higher, and take 100% responsibility for my communication.

Therefore, in both cases above, I would not blame my Pet. I would look at my communication, and figure out where I did not communicate (perhaps I did not clearly state my timeline, or the consequences), and possibly try again, to get the response I desire.

Part of this has to do with being a dominant, and taking full responsibility for my relationship with my Pet.

That’s not all, though. It is my philosophy through life.

In every situation.

I take full responsibility for my communication.

Now, I don’t expect everyone to feel the same. I’m just putting this out there as Part I in a written series about communication that I’ve been mulling over for a while.

It’s also the foundation for Part II and beyond.

I'd love feedback and criticism. *smiles*



GoddessManko -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 8:16:27 AM)

Thanks for this thread Nookie, you post good ones. Here is where I get confused if you don't mind elaborating. Few points.
quote:


Photo
If this was missing, then the third would also be missing. Communication fail.

Photo meets my requirements
If this were missing, but the other two were in place, it would still be a communication fail, yes? Because the information I attempted to transmit was not received, even though the transmission was. Communication fail.

I agree, now that would indicate one of two things. He maybe preoccupied, maybe he is a circus performer currently walking a tightrope or a construction worker on a scaffold. It doesn't mean he intentionally disobeyed or became lax in his responsibilities because subs have those as well. For me, my sub's responsibility is to obey. Though I might be thinking of him, I may not necessarily need him buzzing my phone every 3 minutes so everyone's approach is different. Nor do I necessarily need reminders, keepsakes or mementos. But then I am a sadist, maybe more sadistic than most so I do things that sort of ring true with that part of me. My ex-collared would ONLY get riled when I would debate with him politically. I loved to see that side of him, (still a part of him no matter how complacent he was every other time) so sometimes I would poke him with a stick so he can start googling furiously. I never considered it topping from the bottom but it was interesting how impassioned he was about this particular topic. My sadism begot my desire to do that as well as my affection for him, to marvel in his reactions. It's nice to know what makes my boy tick and also it's nice to know despite our back and forth, he still would come and lay at my feet where he belonged. If he didn't then we are incompatible. If a sub is "sweet" then my kinder and nurturing side naturally emerges, but treading lightly with me is pretty important in the latter endeavor. My sub current has never even been kissed and is a virgin, I find that to be the most delightful thing about him. He is also quite happy being my service sub and naught more but we get closer by his proving that he is selflessly devoted to my happiness. I don't have to stomp around and be adorned in leather, he understands at this point I am very utilitarian with him and dislikes compliments about anything (looks, kindness etc), only his performance in executing tasks or my reaffirming he is "Mine".


quote:

What if he got my text (transmission received), understood my information, and chose not to act?

Who is at fault?

Is it him for being a brat, or sulking, passive aggressive, or topping from the bottom?

Or is it me for not transmitting the right information in a way that convinces him to respond properly?

quote:

Many people would say that communication between two people is 50/50.

I say that’s bullshit. I shoot higher, and take 100% responsibility for my communication.

Therefore, in both cases above, I would not blame my Pet. I would look at my communication, and figure out where I did not communicate (perhaps I did not clearly state my timeline, or the consequences), and possibly try again, to get the response I desire.


You said you are 100% responsible but that is quite illogical in my view (and this is opinion much like your statements). If someone lacks the capacity to understand communication delivered to them then they need to acknowledge that the fault is theirs, not the deliverer of the message. If receiver of message is unable to understand communication delivered, no matter on a hot plate, a trash can lid or the finest of China then there is no success in effective communication. Otherwise this would mean it is a teacher's fault that a student lacks either the capacity or desire to learn. Some people just lack the ability to take responsibility for being less than competent. Competent as a Dom or competent as a sub. It is not my job to absolve them of that simply because I am a Domme. We see incidences of disobedience, "saying you want one thing when really doing actions that counter it" in many incidences of daily life. Doctor/patient. Parent/child. Teacher/student.
You can only give the information, it is their job to be able to receive it. I also disagree it is 50-50. It can also be 100-0 or 0-100. Depending on whether the message was transcribed properly or the message was actually received and had the desired outcome. I am not going to absolve a criminal of blame because of a "bad childhood". Taking responsibility is NECESSARY on BOTH sides of the dynamic in this regard.



NookieNotes -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 8:43:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Thanks for this thread Nookie, you post good ones. Here is where I get confused if you don't mind elaborating. Few points.


You're welcome. I never mind elaborating. Or being wrong. LOL!

quote:


quote:


Photo
If this was missing, then the third would also be missing. Communication fail.

Photo meets my requirements
If this were missing, but the other two were in place, it would still be a communication fail, yes? Because the information I attempted to transmit was not received, even though the transmission was. Communication fail.

I agree, now that would indicate one of two things. He maybe preoccupied, maybe he is a circus performer currently walking a tightrope or a construction worker on a scaffold. It doesn't mean he intentionally disobeyed or became lax in his responsibilities because subs have those as well. For me, my sub's responsibility is to obey.


Agreed. I meant, if the photo was missing and continued to be. Not that it was missing now, but came an hour or so later, or with a note that it would come later, he was busy, etc.

I make allowances for real life, unless I know I have their attention, and I give them a time frame they confirm.

In fact, I often ask them to give me a time, so I know they can commit to it, especially during a work day.

quote:

You said you are 100% responsible but that is quite illogical in my view (and this is opinion much like your statements). If someone lacks the capacity to understand communication delivered to them then they need to acknowledge that the fault is theirs, not the deliverer of the message.


Yes, they have a lack of understanding. I get that.

My point is that since I am communicating MY needs and desires, it is my responsibility to make it clear to the person I am talking to.

ESPECIALLY if it is one I have take responsibility for, like my Pet or sub. I KNOW their level of potential comprehension and can read their moods by the time I take them on.

quote:

If receiver of message is unable to understand communication delivered, no matter on a hot plate, a trash can lid or the finest of China then there is no success in effective communication. Otherwise this would mean it is a teacher's fault that a student lacks either the capacity or desire to learn.


Isn't it?

Shouldn't the teacher recognize that they are not getting through and explore further? Shouldn't one without the capacity be given additional assistance (moved to another class, etc.)? Shouldn't one without a desire to learn be inspired?

Isn't that what teachers do?

quote:

Some people just lack the ability to take responsibility for being less than competent. Competent as a Dom or competent as a sub. It is not my job to absolve them of that simply because I am a Dom.


I am not absolving them of responsibility. I am taking full responsibility for my own actions.

In this case, I have a Pet. I have taken him on as my responsibility. Therefore, I have asserted that I can take responsibility, because I know this person.

Now, I am not saying that a sub cannot make mistakes. I am not saying I am to BLAME for those mistakes. I do, however, take responsibility.

If my dog bites another person, I may not be to blame, but I am responsible.

Does that make sense?

quote:

We see incidences of disobedience, "saying you want one thing when really doing actions that counter it" in many incidences of daily life. Doctor/patient. Parent/child. Teacher/student.


Yes, we do.

A doctor has a responsibility to communicate as thoroughly as possible. That is why there is such a thing as "informed consent." Not just consent, but consent with understanding.

A parent is responsible for their child until age 18, even if a parent is not to blame.

I've responded to the teacher thing.

quote:

You can only give the information, it is their job to be able to receive it.


Are you familiar with Big Bang Theory? Is it Penny's responsibility to understand all of what Sheldon has to say, or Sheldon's responsibility to be clear?

Is it your responsibility to understand the sensitive person behind the creepy do-me messages you get, or their responsibility to make themselves more understood?

See what I mean?

Yes, the receiving party can try, but the sending party has full responsibility for their message, the clarity, and therefore the results.

quote:

I also disagree it is 50-50. It can also be 100-0 or 0-100. Depending on whether the message was transcribed properly or the message was actually received and had the desired outcome. I am not going to absolve a criminal of blame because of a "bad childhood". Taking responsibility is NECESSARY on BOTH sides of the dynamic in this regard.


I'm not ever absolving anyone of blame. Ever. I'm talking about responsibility.

And I agree, taking responsibility is 100% on both sides. Yet, neither you nor I have control over anyone else, so we can only take 100% responsibility for ourselves.

I will always take 100% responsibility, unless it's pure chance. Even then, how I handle that chance is my responsibility.

Even with a stranger who does not speak my language. If I'm in Spain, for example. If I need to find a restroom, and I don't speak Spanish (or Catalan), then is it their responsibility to understand me, or my responsibility to make myself understood> I think it is 100% mine. I need something.

Putting my need into a common language (to me) does not change my need or my responsibility to communicate it clearly to get the results I want.

*smiles*

Does that clarify?



GoddessManko -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 8:54:45 AM)

Thanks for your thoughts Nookie, especially this.
quote:

I am not absolving them of responsibility. I am taking full responsibility for my own actions.

In this case, I have a Pet. I have taken him on as my responsibility. Therefore, I have asserted that I can take responsibility, because I know this person.

Now, I am not saying that a sub cannot make mistakes. I am not saying I am to BLAME for those mistakes. I do, however, take responsibility.

If my dog bites another person, I may not be to blame, but I am responsible.

So then you mean it is your responsibility to decide what to do in such scenario, to put the dog to sleep (part ways), acknowledge it was a bad idea to adopt a wild dog to begin with (even though the dog was deceptively well behaved prior to incident) and compensate the victim? (even if an error, there are consequences to adopting the "untamed").
I think I understand what you are saying now and I agree. A captain should never abandon his ship unless it is sinking. An inability to communicate is a blaring sign of incompatibility in my view. My boy just sent me this message, "You are perfect. Absolutely and completely."
His genuine nature moreso than his reactions are what really magnetize me to him. Someone criticizing my domming or choosing to be a brat, I'd be less inclined. I know I'm not perfect but in his eyes I am. I believe that is the fundamental difference and thank you again for your thoughts. You always grant food for thought.

Sorry, ETA;

quote:

Yes, we do.

A doctor has a responsibility to communicate as thoroughly as possible. That is why there is such a thing as "informed consent." Not just consent, but consent with understanding.

A parent is responsible for their child until age 18, even if a parent is not to blame.

I've responded to the teacher thing.

Right, and a patient can check himself out of a hospital against his doctor's orders. Some people just choose to not to doas instructed even if it's their best interest.
As per parent, yes. But a child can have parents who simply do what they believe is best and can still end up being a miscreant to society. I would be incorrect to say that the parents or doctor are responsible in either scenario. If someone chooses to "emancipate themselves" through their actions, there is zero responsibility on the part of the caretaker. It is only the responsibility to grant the tools and offer direction and perspective, not to force oneself into a position outside of personal "comfort zone".
re·spon·si·bil·i·ty
rəˌspänsəˈbilədē/
noun
noun: responsibility

the state or fact of having a duty to deal with something or of having control over someone.
"women bear children and take responsibility for child care"
synonyms: authority, control, power, leadership
"a job with greater responsibility"
the state or fact of being accountable or to blame for something.
"the group has claimed responsibility for a string of murders"
synonyms: blame, fault, guilt, culpability, liability
"they denied responsibility for the bomb attack"
the opportunity or ability to act independently and make decisions without authorization.
"we would expect individuals lower down the organization to take on more responsibility"
a thing that one is required to do as part of a job, role, or legal obligation.
plural noun: responsibilities
"he will take over the responsibilities of overseas director"
synonyms: duty, task, function, job, role, business
"it was his responsibility to find witnesses"
a moral obligation to behave correctly toward or in respect of.
"individuals have a responsibility to control personal behavior"
synonyms: trustworthiness, common sense, sense, maturity, reliability, dependability
"let's show some social responsibility"

Translate responsibility to
Use over time for: responsibility



NookieNotes -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 9:25:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

So then you mean it is your responsibility to decide what to do in such scenario, to put the dog to sleep (part ways), acknowledge it was a bad idea to adopt a wild dog to begin with (even though the dog was deceptively well behaved prior to incident) and compensate the victim? (even if an error, there are consequences to adopting the "untamed").


Or, to figure out what went wrong, and correct it or take steps to make sure it does not happen again.

Mush easier with communication than a dog bite. *smiles*

quote:

Someone criticizing my domming or choosing to be a brat, I'd be less inclined. I know I'm not perfect but in his eyes I am.


How it should be.

And yet, if you were to take on a brat, then blame the brat for being bratty, that would not make sense to me.

quote:

I believe that is the fundamental difference and thank you again for your thoughts. You always grant food for thought.


Anytime. I love the debate and discussion.

quote:

Sorry, ETA;

quote:

A doctor has a responsibility to communicate as thoroughly as possible. That is why there is such a thing as "informed consent." Not just consent, but consent with understanding.

A parent is responsible for their child until age 18, even if a parent is not to blame.

I've responded to the teacher thing.

Right, and a patient can check himself out of a hospital against his doctor's orders. Some people just choose to not to doas instructed even if it's their best interest.


Agreed. The doctor is not to blame. However, the doctor is responsible for his communication. If the patient signs the paper that says the doctor communicated, and still walks out, the doctor's communication may still be at fault. I'm not blaming the doctor (as many might in this litigious society), simply saying that the risk of death or further injury was not fully communicated, if the patient gave different results.

quote:

As per parent, yes. But a child can have parents who simply do what they believe is best and can still end up being a miscreant to society. I would be incorrect to say that the parents or doctor are responsible in either scenario. If someone chooses to "emancipate themselves" through their actions, there is zero responsibility on the part of the caretaker. It is only the responsibility to grant the tools and offer direction and perspective, not to force oneself into a position outside of personal "comfort zone".


They are responsible. See the bold below:

quote:

re·spon·si·bil·i·ty
rəˌspänsəˈbilədē/
noun
noun: responsibility

the state or fact of having a duty to deal with something or of having control over someone.
"women bear children and take responsibility for child care"
synonyms: authority, control, power, leadership
"a job with greater responsibility"
the state or fact of being accountable or to blame for something.
"the group has claimed responsibility for a string of murders"
synonyms: blame, fault, guilt, culpability, liability
"they denied responsibility for the bomb attack"
the opportunity or ability to act independently and make decisions without authorization.
"we would expect individuals lower down the organization to take on more responsibility"
a thing that one is required to do as part of a job, role, or legal obligation.
plural noun: responsibilities
"he will take over the responsibilities of overseas director"
synonyms: duty, task, function, job, role, business
"it was his responsibility to find witnesses"
a moral obligation to behave correctly toward or in respect of.
"individuals have a responsibility to control personal behavior"
synonyms: trustworthiness, common sense, sense, maturity, reliability, dependability
"let's show some social responsibility"


No, I looked up blame, and got this (bold mine):

blame
[bleym]
verb (used with object), blamed, blaming.
1. to hold responsible; find fault with; censure:
I don't blame you for leaving him.
2. to place the responsibility for (a fault, error, etc.) (usually followed by on):
I blame the accident on her.
3. Informal. blast; damn (used as a mild curse):
Blame the rotten luck.
noun
4. an act of attributing fault; censure; reproof:
The judge said he found nothing to justify blame in the accident.
5. responsibility for anything deserving of censure:
We must all share the blame for this deplorable condition.
Idioms
6. to blame, at fault; censurable:
I am to blame for his lateness.

So, from my POV, responsibility is the duty I have taken on to make myself clear.

Blame is that responsibility for something that deserves censuring. I do not always believe a failure to communicate is censurable or a fault. It is merely a miscommunication, no blame necessary.

See what I mean?

They are very close words. But not exactly the same, not perfect synonyms. I use them separately for that reason.

In the case of the Pet no giving me the results I want, I take 100% responsibility for fixing that as I see fit. I do not take the blame.

*smiles*

Thanks for the discussion.



Bhruic -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 9:30:06 AM)

Good post... and a worthy topic to analyse.

All too often I will think that I am communicating effectively with my partner, only to realize later, when appropriate feedback is evidently lacking, that I was really only talking. The information was not being absorbed, and so no actual communication ended up taking place.

And I accept my half of the responsibility for that, for not doing due diligence to verify that communication was, in fact happening, and that information was being passed and taken-in in both directions... and not just information, but accord.



GoddessManko -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 9:39:53 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes


Or, to figure out what went wrong, and correct it or take steps to make sure it does not happen again.

Mush easier with communication than a dog bite. *smiles*

Taking on a "brat" whether knowingly or unknowingly. In this case the proverbial brat is a dog. Still a brat. Deal or part ways.
quote:



How it should be.

And yet, if you were to take on a brat, then blame the brat for being bratty, that would not make sense to me.

Agreed. I avoid. Most of my boys have been good so I'm lucky in this sense. It's hard to live up to the standard they have created.

quote:

Anytime. I love the debate and discussion.

As do I, I like people who allow me to think.

quote:


Agreed. The doctor is not to blame. However, the doctor is responsible for his communication. If the patient signs the paper that says the doctor communicated, and still walks out, the doctor's communication may still be at fault. I'm not blaming the doctor (as many might in this litigious society), simply saying that the risk of death or further injury was not fully communicated, if the patient gave different results.

I agree, but doctors take an oath to "do no harm, and they abide by all protocols from HIPAA to consent, and in such scenarios the patient emancipates his/herself by signing a form acknowledging they are going to counter what their doctor recommends and that it was effectively communicated.

quote:


They are responsible. See the bold below:

quote:

re·spon·si·bil·i·ty
rəˌspänsəˈbilədē/
noun
noun: responsibility

the state or fact of having a duty to deal with something or of having control over someone.
"women bear children and take responsibility for child care"
synonyms: authority, control, power, leadership
"a job with greater responsibility"
the state or fact of being accountable or to blame for something.
"the group has claimed responsibility for a string of murders"
synonyms: blame, fault, guilt, culpability, liability
"they denied responsibility for the bomb attack"
the opportunity or ability to act independently and make decisions without authorization.
"we would expect individuals lower down the organization to take on more responsibility"
a thing that one is required to do as part of a job, role, or legal obligation.
plural noun: responsibilities
"he will take over the responsibilities of overseas director"
synonyms: duty, task, function, job, role, business
"it was his responsibility to find witnesses"
a moral obligation to behave correctly toward or in respect of.
"individuals have a responsibility to control personal behavior"
synonyms: trustworthiness, common sense, sense, maturity, reliability, dependability
"let's show some social responsibility"


No, I looked up blame, and got this (bold mine):

blame
[bleym]
verb (used with object), blamed, blaming.
1. to hold responsible; find fault with; censure:
I don't blame you for leaving him.
2. to place the responsibility for (a fault, error, etc.) (usually followed by on):
I blame the accident on her.
3. Informal. blast; damn (used as a mild curse):
Blame the rotten luck.
noun
4. an act of attributing fault; censure; reproof:
The judge said he found nothing to justify blame in the accident.
5. responsibility for anything deserving of censure:
We must all share the blame for this deplorable condition.
Idioms
6. to blame, at fault; censurable:
I am to blame for his lateness.

So, from my POV, responsibility is the duty I have taken on to make myself clear.

Blame is that responsibility for something that deserves censuring. I do not always believe a failure to communicate is censurable or a fault. It is merely a miscommunication, no blame necessary.

See what I mean?

They are very close words. But not exactly the same, not perfect synonyms. I use them separately for that reason.

In the case of the Pet no giving me the results I want, I take 100% responsibility for fixing that as I see fit. I do not take the blame.

*smiles*

Thanks for the discussion.


Thanks for explaining your position on this and agreed here for the most part apart from where, once again a child "emancipates themselves" whether it's by committing a crime and suddenly the state is now responsible for them, and no longer are their parents. In such scenario the parents (much like on the show intervention) have to choose to give ultimatums for the sake of said child's improvement/recovery and stand by their decision to "let go". Many times these miscreants are the way they are because there is an element of enabling by not "letting go".



sexyred1 -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 9:42:11 AM)

I am very clear in my communications with a partner.

If they fail to understand, it their inability to want to understand or they purposely act dense because the topic is not to their liking.



CreativeDominant -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 10:00:15 AM)

It can end up being a fine line.

I choose to deal with adult submissives. By that, I mean I will not deal with a "little" because too often, that can be used as a way to avoid responsibility.

That brings us to the fine line. As the dominant, I take on the responsibility for taking the relationshrelationship along a mutually agreed-upon course. In guiding us along this course, I see myself as responsible for communicating sometimes what I want done. But...as submissives often say...that sometimes, though not always, requires feedback. Either way, while I am responsible for the transmission of my wants and needs and the relationships' wants and needs, I am also responsible for making sure the submissive understands it. Here is where the fine line comes in...

In the beginning, to make sure I was heard, I may ask them to repeat back what they heard me say. How they answer reveals a lot not only about their ability to listen but...often...their perspective. This becomes helpful to me in knowing how well they listen AND how well our perspectives match. However...because I choose adults, there comes a time when they tire of being asked to repeat and when I...In all honesty...get tired of asking for it. I have to recognize when that point has been reached and let their responsive behaviors to my communication show me that they not only heard me but were listening.

Once they've shown me that they can listen and respond appropriately, then it becomes their responsibility to speak up when they either don't understand what I am saying or they disagree. Not doing so and then, not following through on behaving in the manner requested is on them just as much as it is on me. If you want to be treated like an adult, then act like one. Speaking up when you don't understand what I'm saying or disagreeing with it is going to do the relationship much more good...along with showing me you care...then not saying anything, not following through, or following through in your own way and getting it wrong does.



NookieNotes -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 10:04:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bhruic

Good post... and a worthy topic to analyse.


Thank you.

quote:

All too often I will think that I am communicating effectively with my partner, only to realize later, when appropriate feedback is evidently lacking, that I was really only talking. The information was not being absorbed, and so no actual communication ended up taking place.


Yes, exactly.

quote:

And I accept my half of the responsibility for that, for not doing due diligence to verify that communication was, in fact happening, and that information was being passed and taken-in in both directions... and not just information, but accord.


So, you take 50% more responsibility than most people. I find most people always blame the other party, because of course they are being clear...

I take all of the responsibility, but YMMV.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Thanks for explaining your position on this and agreed here for the most part apart from where, once again a child "emancipates themselves" whether it's by committing a crime and suddenly the state is now responsible for them, and no longer are their parents. In such scenario the parents (much like on the show intervention) have to choose to give ultimatums for the sake of said child's improvement/recovery and stand by their decision to "let go". Many times these miscreants are the way they are because there is an element of enabling by not "letting go".


I think there are always extremes and exceptions. Only we can determine what is an exception and what is our responsibility, I think.

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

I am very clear in my communications with a partner.

If they fail to understand, it their inability to want to understand or they purposely act dense because the topic is not to their liking.


I can't see the world like this. I rarely assume that someone WANTS to misunderstand me or act dense. If I were to assume that, they would not be a partner.

Then, As the dominant, I feel it is my responsibility to not only be clear, but to make sure things get done the way I see fit, because it is the best choice (in my view) for me, my partner, and our relationship.



NookieNotes -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 10:09:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
In the beginning, to make sure I was heard, I may ask them to repeat back what they heard me say. How they answer reveals a lot not only about their ability to listen but...often...their perspective. This becomes helpful to me in knowing how well they listen AND how well our perspectives match.


AGREED! Very good point. And this culls most people before the "partner" stage for me.

However...because I choose adults, there comes a time when they tire of being asked to repeat and when I...In all honesty...get tired of asking for it. I have to recognize when that point has been reached and let their responsive behaviors to my communication show me that they not only heard me but were listening.

Agreed again. By then, you will know the clues of their distracted behavior or miscomprehension, I would think.

quote:

Once they've shown me that they can listen and respond appropriately, then it becomes their responsibility to speak up when they either don't understand what I am saying or they disagree. Not doing so and then, not following through on behaving in the manner requested is on them just as much as it is on me.


Agreed. Assuming they KNOW they did not understand.

quote:

If you want to be treated like an adult, then act like one. Speaking up when you don't understand what I'm saying or disagreeing with it is going to do the relationship much more good...along with showing me you care...then not saying anything, not following through, or following through in your own way and getting it wrong does.


Agreed. Now, if they spoke up (hypothetically), and you unwittingly shot them down, they might not realize next time that they are not speaking up because of that.

That is where I feel it is my responsibility as the dominant to fix the miscommunication, and my responsibility for the miscommunication to begin with.

It is my job to be more self-aware and to be heightened to my partner's behaviors as well, to pinpoint what's going wrong before they even know it, sometimes.

*smiles*



sexyred1 -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 11:09:45 AM)

My last partner heard but did not listen. He was purposely sense when it suited him.

Don't assume all Dominants feel the responsibility that you do.

Of course, I take ownership of being an idiot for staying with him, but that ship sailed. I will never put up with that behavior again.



NookieNotes -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 11:18:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

Don't assume all Dominants feel the responsibility that you do.


I don't. I know better. *smiles*



DesFIP -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 11:19:38 AM)

If he got your message and chose not to act, it could also be your fault for asking something inappropriate. Stripping down in the office for example.

However, sometimes people simply have incompatible communication styles. For example, The Man likes to explain things fully and have me ask questions afterward. However, unless I can take notes, I'm not going to remember all the questions. So his choice is between hearing himself think out loud or allowing me to ask questions as he goes. Because that's my style. And for me to understand, I need to clear as I go.



GoddessManko -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 11:43:43 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If he got your message and chose not to act, it could also be your fault for asking something inappropriate. Stripping down in the office for example.

However, sometimes people simply have incompatible communication styles. For example, The Man likes to explain things fully and have me ask questions afterward. However, unless I can take notes, I'm not going to remember all the questions. So his choice is between hearing himself think out loud or allowing me to ask questions as he goes. Because that's my style. And for me to understand, I need to clear as I go.

Really, really good point. Then it is a compatibility factor, I like things seamless and organic. Source of comfort, not distress. Keep your role in mind and we'll be fine. I am not one to teach a dolphin how to tap dance.
And there is no exact formula to knowing what works or not work. I don't argue with my brother because he's as stubborn as my father. It's not a failure to communicate, it's acknowledging it's a pointless pursuit. LOL, just saying. I have known him long enough to realize this.



BecomingV -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 11:56:43 AM)

Hi Nookie :) Great thread topic!

Yes, I take 100% responsibility for my communication and I measure that in results.

Your OP reminds me of that early interview with Oprah when she landed on the Forbes list. She attributed her success to this very acceptance of responsibility. She stated that she was aware that most people thought her crazy because even if a stranger across the street gave her a nasty look, she would ask herself what signal she was putting out there to elicit such a response.

I understood exactly what she was describing because I perceive in this way, too. This self-examination is not limited to a review of the spoken words, but also nonverbal communication such as body language, gestures and facial expressions. The third set of factors I question involve rapport... have I matched the other person's volume, pace and tone in such a way as to achieve the most understanding?

I don't recall where Oprah realized the power of accepting total responsibility, but I learned it as a teen while reading a lot on creative visualization. The entire concept being that we create the material and physical reality that surrounds us. To take control of that process is to become aware and then to practice making the connections between what we put out and what we end up dealing with.

So, in this regard, kindred spirit here. :)

Your signature says, "I write!" So, I have a question for you in terms of the written word.

Two people may read the same novel and tell you two different stories while describing it. Actually, the same thing happens to viewers of the same tv show and the same film, and wow could we go far into individual perceptions if we discussed detectives trying to get eyewitness statements on the same crime!

What are your thoughts on unique and varying perceptions as they relate to measuring the success of any communication?



NookieNotes -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 12:43:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

If he got your message and chose not to act, it could also be your fault for asking something inappropriate. Stripping down in the office for example.


My responsibility for the communication, yes. Thank you for this addition.

To be clear, I may have him strip down in the office. It is my responsibility to communicate he is to do that:

1. after hours
2. when there is no one around

etc...

Because I am not put on this earth to get my Pet fired.

It does remind me, however, that Paul Watzlawick contends (in his book 'How Real is Real?')that even a threat depends on clear communication: It must get through, be believable, AND for hope of something to happen, it must be possible for the recipient.

If I am asking for something, it must be possible. That is on me to know or to make my best guess.

quote:

However, sometimes people simply have incompatible communication styles. For example, The Man likes to explain things fully and have me ask questions afterward. However, unless I can take notes, I'm not going to remember all the questions. So his choice is between hearing himself think out loud or allowing me to ask questions as he goes. Because that's my style. And for me to understand, I need to clear as I go.


So, you can't take notes?

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

Really, really good point. Then it is a compatibility factor, I like things seamless and organic. Source of comfort, not distress. Keep your role in mind and we'll be fine. I am not one to teach a dolphin how to tap dance.


Exactly. Because I would have chosen a Pet based on my predisposition, and their level of comfort and adventure.

quote:

And there is no exact formula to knowing what works or not work. I don't argue with my brother because he's as stubborn as my father. It's not a failure to communicate, it's acknowledging it's a pointless pursuit. LOL, just saying. I have known him long enough to realize this.


You have taken responsibility for that.

On the other hand, a master communicator (not I, I'm not saying that) could potentially communicate and convince your brother of anything.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BecomingV

Hi Nookie :) Great thread topic!


Thank you.

quote:

Yes, I take 100% responsibility for my communication and I measure that in results.

Your OP reminds me of that early interview with Oprah when she landed on the Forbes list. She attributed her success to this very acceptance of responsibility. She stated that she was aware that most people thought her crazy because even if a stranger across the street gave her a nasty look, she would ask herself what signal she was putting out there to elicit such a response.


Yes. It's an extrapolation of communication to appearance and body language as well.

quote:

I understood exactly what she was describing because I perceive in this way, too. This self-examination is not limited to a review of the spoken words, but also nonverbal communication such as body language, gestures and facial expressions. The third set of factors I question involve rapport... have I matched the other person's volume, pace and tone in such a way as to achieve the most understanding?


Uh huh.

quote:

I don't recall where Oprah realized the power of accepting total responsibility, but I learned it as a teen while reading a lot on creative visualization. The entire concept being that we create the material and physical reality that surrounds us. To take control of that process is to become aware and then to practice making the connections between what we put out and what we end up dealing with.


Mine came from a particularly nasty divorce and emotional abuse. *smiles*

I'd rather have your experience. LOL!

quote:

Your signature says, "I write!" So, I have a question for you in terms of the written word.

Two people may read the same novel and tell you two different stories while describing it. Actually, the same thing happens to viewers of the same tv show and the same film, and wow could we go far into individual perceptions if we discussed detectives trying to get eyewitness statements on the same crime!

What are your thoughts on unique and varying perceptions as they relate to measuring the success of any communication?


Well, I tend to be wordy. I try to write in several ways to get a single point across:

I say it.
I repeat it.
I give an analogy/example.
I put it into slang.
If I can, I make a picture or illustrate.

All, with the hopes of reaching each person ON THEIR TERMS.

That said, the takeaways of anything I write will be different. And fascinating.

So, for me, I measure my success in engagement.

When someone writes to agree, I'm happy. When someone writes to disagree, I'm happy,because I learn a different POV. When someone writes to tell me I've changed their lives and made a difference, I'm ecstatic, and don't ask if they got the exact point I was trying to make.

Now, in interpersonal communication, I use those different POVs to my advantage (say it).

Last night, Pet and I had a cuckold scene (example). We talked about what might happen before hand for several days. And right before for 1/2 hour. And today, we've discussed the physical, mental, and emotional angles several times, from both POVs.

NEXT time we have a cuckold scene or discuss cuckolding, I will now have his POV as well as mine to make myself more clear (repeat it).

Did I understand your question and answer it?

I noticed I was following my pattern, after writing my answer, so illustrated it in this color and italic style. *smiles*



sexyred1 -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 12:55:14 PM)

In terms of online communications, when someone always replies with "smiles" all the time, are they afraid of offending others with their opinions or just trying to be funny?




GoddessManko -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 1:06:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NookieNotes

You have taken responsibility for that.

On the other hand, a master communicator (not I, I'm not saying that) could potentially communicate and convince your brother of anything.



I would literally pay to see that.



NookieNotes -> RE: com·mu·ni·ca·tion: An Improved Definition (Thoughts On Communication, Part I) (12/5/2014 1:27:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1

In terms of online communications, when someone always replies with "smiles" all the time, are they afraid of offending others with their opinions or just trying to be funny?


Neither, in my case.

I've been online since 1994. I am used to communicating here, and when I am smiling, it's natural that I type it.

I smile a lot.

But, of course, I can't speak for others when they type *smiles* or *sashays delicately into the room, looking neither up nor down, nor left nor right, heading towards the slave furs and settling gracefully down into submission pose*

*grins*

THAT time, I was trying to be a little funny.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessManko

I would literally pay to see that.


You know who I LOVE to watch? Evangelicals on TV. They are amazing, master manipulators.

Of course, they target their audience carefully. What they do with words is nothing short of miracles, for sure. *smiles*



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