RE: submissive rights...

RE: submissive rights... (Full Version)

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MasterVenom13 -> RE: submissive rights... (1/16/2015 9:34:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iwillsurrnder I was talking to a Dom and He decided He wanted to meet me for dinner. i had agreed to meet with the condition that i do not get sexual on a first meet. When i put this condition on meeting, He changed from dinner to having a drink. He told me that in order to meet, He had to have full control over everything including whether or not there would be sex. i told Him that i could not agree to that. i am single and new to this and i am not here to be used by every Dom i meet for the first time and that is why i have this rule for myself. He told me that He doesn't think i am submissive because i have this rule in place to protect myself from being taken advantage of. He told me that i was trying to be in control. i was told by a friend that happens to be a Dom, i should have this rule in place. So, my question is...as long as i am not taken...do i have the right to say no sex at a first meet? The meeting should always take place on neutral ground and sex on the first date is a no, no.

Kittenluv954 -> RE: submissive rights... (1/16/2015 9:40:34 PM)
a woman always has the right to say no. on the first date, the second, and even the tenth. she can say no forever if she wants. for a man (Dom or not) to disregard that is still considered rape. This reply is for the OP, still getting the hang of this forum.

sheisreeds -> RE: submissive rights... (1/17/2015 11:01:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark ST, Sin (and others) you're right and I was wrong. I had time to think about it and maybe it's time to do away with these sections. There are times when questions really CAN only be answered by _________ as they are the only ones who could possibly know but there are also a lot of questions which could be answered by anyone. The one exception perhaps is the Gorean Board which is separate from BDSM. I think it more productive if the person who is asking the question specify if they only want one perspective. Even if the OP specifies what perspective they want, sometimes it's better not to listen to that. This thread is one of those times where the submissive perspective is truly important in regards to what the OP is asking. I like the fact that this place as crazy and snarky as it can be is also protective of new folk. Submissives have a right to reply anywhere they want, especially in response to a submissive asking questions about expectations, safety and consent. Reassurances from dominants that in initial meetings submissives have rights is one thing. Submissives bringing up their boundaries, screening, etc in regards to this kind of question is equally important. It may not be what the OP wants, but it's important not just for the OP, but for others who stumble upon this thread. I can also easily see this being a flipped scenario where a question is asked in a submissive forum and it is totally appropriate for the dominant perspective to chime in.

Musicmystery -> RE: submissive rights... (1/17/2015 11:13:49 AM)
That's really it, isn't it -- everyone thinks they know better than everyone else. My doctor doesn't give me legal advice. My lawyer doesn't give me medical advice. My musician friends don't tell me how to write. My writer friends don't tell me how to perform. Knowing one doesn't have all the answers is key to any kind of real wisdom. Respecting the wishes and requests of others is key to any kind of real maturity. That's really the issue. Separate sections, group sections, clear OP requests -- none of it really matters, as long as the above is true. Sometimes, that's just the nature of interacting with others.

sheisreeds -> RE: submissive rights... (1/17/2015 12:01:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery That's really it, isn't it -- everyone thinks they know better than everyone else. My doctor doesn't give me legal advice. My lawyer doesn't give me medical advice. My musician friends don't tell me how to write. My writer friends don't tell me how to perform. Knowing one doesn't have all the answers is key to any kind of real wisdom. Respecting the wishes and requests of others is key to any kind of real maturity. That's really the issue. Separate sections, group sections, clear OP requests -- none of it really matters, as long as the above is true. Sometimes, that's just the nature of interacting with others. As a professional I am not a doctor, but I work closely with doctors. If in working with a patient I feel or flat out know that they missed something it is actually my ethical imperative that I bring it up. As a therapist if someone notes I have missed something with a patient be it the doctor, the case manager, or even the secretary, it is my ethical imperative to listen and that that into account. As a writer my musical friends have had amazing input at times into my writing. As a performer my writer friends have had amazing input regarding my performing. My partner isn't a writer or a performer, but he still has valuable things to add. Some of the most evil and sadistic ideas for scenes I've participated in have come from slaves. Some of the best knowledge I've gained on submission has come from dominants. All points of view have a place if they can provide relevance and insight to the topic, and sometimes they are really darn important.

Musicmystery -> RE: submissive rights... (1/17/2015 12:05:28 PM)
If. Your examples aren't comparable, though. You'd bring it up with the doctor, or they with you the therapist -- not inserting your opinion to the client unbidden. In fact, that would be extremely unprofessional. There's also a world of difference between "what do y'all think" (not asking specific people) responses, which can indeed be very helpful, and a very technical question for my musician or writer friends, when chiming in would simply be a distraction. Your response simply exemplifies the point I made. In your view, everyone knows better, and you simply ignored the point about respect for people's wishes and the accompanying maturity. I've no doubt you and a bunch of other people disagree, as demonstrated frequently on these boards. But it does say something about you. Whether you think that something is significant, relevant, or insightful is another matter. You're free not to care what I think. After all, you didn't ask for my opinion...

sheisreeds -> RE: submissive rights... (1/17/2015 2:14:26 PM)
I just love the fantasies that some have that these forums have rules and protocols akin to the château of Roissy, and the black and white thinking that accompanies this thinking and/or assumptions. If that were the case the poor Dominants don't have a forum of their own, since the majority of dominants I know don't call themselves Master, even though some of them are called master by their submissive partners. The only folks I acknowledge who call themselves Master are a handful of very experienced BDSM educators, and even they don't take the title that seriously outside of their intimate relationships.

Musicmystery -> RE: submissive rights... (1/17/2015 2:55:48 PM)
Since clearly no one here feels that way, I can't imagine what you think you're on about. Nor is that the topic of the thread or any of the posts.

Arturas -> RE: submissive rights... (1/18/2015 10:54:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SinFix Lol.. well damn it, why didn't I get the memo? I never get the memo [:(] Though our endearing Arty, loves to point out the fact that subs shouldn't post here given the name, has no problem being hypocritical and posting in ask a sub.. which begs the question.. Is he a switch hitter? Edit cause of the sadistic bastard that created auto fill and auto correct.. I learned years ago the forum descriptions mean nothing and I refuse to pretend they do. If the OP wishes to assume otherwise then she is free to do so and I have no problem with that either.

Arturas -> RE: submissive rights... (1/18/2015 11:03:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kittenluv954 a woman always has the right to say no. on the first date, the second, and even the tenth. she can say no forever if she wants. for a man (Dom or not) to disregard that is still considered rape. This reply is for the OP, still getting the hang of this forum. Great post.

Arturas -> RE: submissive rights... (1/18/2015 11:05:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SinFix Yes, but she did not say that upfront.. only after she got responses from subs Saying so upfront only draws a hotter flame. But then some like it hot. I do.

UnholyBear -> RE: submissive rights... (1/18/2015 2:57:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark quote: ORIGINAL: SinFix LOL.. I know I skipped that class, I instead went to the seduce tyrants class, much more fun and entertaining... But to stay somewhat on topic here, OP came onto this forum to pose a question to "masters", got answers from all types though resented the fact she got answers from fellow submissives. In all fairness, is that hazing? giving the name of the forum, should submissives keep their perspectives to themselves even though it could be very beneficial to newbies? The majority of newbs that come here, have that "cluelessness" about them of one true wayism, and would it benefit these forums to either "rename" them or keep status quo that has "regulars" appearing to haze and drive off the newcomers? In this case her choice. She even said if she wanted our perspective she would have asked for it. Clear enough. I think if more than one perspective is wanted it'll be asked in the general forum. So then what you are implying is that for people like my self who don't fully identify as dominant or fully as a submissive should keep our damn noses off this section? It's a fact of life that many of us identify as switches and we are able to engage on both sides to the D/s dynamic. That in itself gives us a unique perspective since we have a good idea how of both perspectives. Frankly to rant, demand or insist that in this section or any other section on this site to be restricted or even implied that it is solely regulated for specific roles is utterly bullshit in my eyes. Yes this section is geared towards dominants thus is this strictly for ones who are legitimately 100% dominant, what about the ones who are still growing into that role? What about switches who are primarily dominant yet also engage in submission? What about people who identify as Primal? etc etc etc. You can clearly see it leads to absolute idiotic to restrict a person based on how they identify in WIITWD

LiveSpark -> RE: submissive rights... (1/18/2015 3:28:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UnholyBear quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark quote: ORIGINAL: SinFix LOL.. I know I skipped that class, I instead went to the seduce tyrants class, much more fun and entertaining... But to stay somewhat on topic here, OP came onto this forum to pose a question to "masters", got answers from all types though resented the fact she got answers from fellow submissives. In all fairness, is that hazing? giving the name of the forum, should submissives keep their perspectives to themselves even though it could be very beneficial to newbies? The majority of newbs that come here, have that "cluelessness" about them of one true wayism, and would it benefit these forums to either "rename" them or keep status quo that has "regulars" appearing to haze and drive off the newcomers? In this case her choice. She even said if she wanted our perspective she would have asked for it. Clear enough. I think if more than one perspective is wanted it'll be asked in the general forum. So then what you are implying is that for people like my self who don't fully identify as dominant or fully as a submissive should keep our damn noses off this section? It's a fact of life that many of us identify as switches and we are able to engage on both sides to the D/s dynamic. That in itself gives us a unique perspective since we have a good idea how of both perspectives. Frankly to rant, demand or insist that in this section or any other section on this site to be restricted or even implied that it is solely regulated for specific roles is utterly bullshit in my eyes. Yes this section is geared towards dominants thus is this strictly for ones who are legitimately 100% dominant, what about the ones who are still growing into that role? What about switches who are primarily dominant yet also engage in submission? What about people who identify as Primal? etc etc etc. You can clearly see it leads to absolute idiotic to restrict a person based on how they identify in WIITWD NO I was saying is that when someone asks for a particular point of view it should be respected. In case you haven't noticed there's an awesome section for Switches where btw I wouldn't post because guess what I'M NOT A SWITCH! Amazing isn't it a section for different identities! In any case if you look a bit further down I changed my mind. I'n not sure why you're being so nasty though it's not like I could stop you anyway.

Arturas -> RE: submissive rights... (1/18/2015 10:13:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark quote: ORIGINAL: SinFix Lol.. well damn it, why didn't I get the memo? I never get the memo [:(] Though our endearing Arty, loves to point out the fact that subs shouldn't post here given the name, has no problem being hypocritical and posting in ask a sub.. which begs the question.. Is he a switch hitter? Edit cause of the sadistic bastard that created auto fill and auto correct.. We've been trying to figure that out since he started hanging out on the Gorean Board trying to convince us he's a Gorean. He's all yours now. Sorry. Who is "We('ve)"? Do you really think there is such a thing? Is that you, yourself and the individual currently known as LiveSpark? Let me suggest to you that who you are, or who I am for that matter, has nothing to do with what anyone here thinks. It's true. Additionally, my thoughts, my code and my beliefs are not subject to anyone's approval here. Perhaps some on that Board agree with me, perhaps not, but being an "Outlaw of Gor" is not such a bad thing. While I have disagreed with the few who still inhabit that board regularly, it still remains a fact that I was there only to share my thoughts on the subject of Gor after reading most of the books. I am certain that is a valid reason to be there even if "we" including "you" would rather not think so. I also suggest making this about me is taking this thread down a path most everyone reading this thread would rather not go, including me.

Arturas -> RE: submissive rights... (1/18/2015 10:38:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: UnholyBear quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark quote: ORIGINAL: SinFix LOL.. I know I skipped that class, I instead went to the seduce tyrants class, much more fun and entertaining... But to stay somewhat on topic here, OP came onto this forum to pose a question to "masters", got answers from all types though resented the fact she got answers from fellow submissives. In all fairness, is that hazing? giving the name of the forum, should submissives keep their perspectives to themselves even though it could be very beneficial to newbies? The majority of newbs that come here, have that "cluelessness" about them of one true wayism, and would it benefit these forums to either "rename" them or keep status quo that has "regulars" appearing to haze and drive off the newcomers? In this case her choice. She even said if she wanted our perspective she would have asked for it. Clear enough. I think if more than one perspective is wanted it'll be asked in the general forum. So then what you are implying is that for people like my self who don't fully identify as dominant or fully as a submissive should keep our damn noses off this section? It's a fact of life that many of us identify as switches and we are able to engage on both sides to the D/s dynamic. That in itself gives us a unique perspective since we have a good idea how of both perspectives. Frankly to rant, demand or insist that in this section or any other section on this site to be restricted or even implied that it is solely regulated for specific roles is utterly bullshit in my eyes. Yes this section is geared towards dominants thus is this strictly for ones who are legitimately 100% dominant, what about the ones who are still growing into that role? What about switches who are primarily dominant yet also engage in submission? What about people who identify as Primal? etc etc etc. You can clearly see it leads to absolute idiotic to restrict a person based on how they identify in WIITWD I am certain the arguments, about who can or should respond in any given board, are missing the real situation. If you focus on what actually happened, the Op does not say anything about who she wanted to respond to her original post until two submissives, a Red one and another who backed her up, took a cheap shot at a newby poster, the OP, degrading her for her question; treating her like she is stupid. It was distastful. More to the point, this is always the case when someone complains about who is responding, not that they really are upset that a Dom or submissive or switch or kajira or whomever is responding to their question but that someone who was not invited is taking a cheap shot at the newbee and the newbee suddently realizes their attacker was not "invited". Funny how it works out that way. So, I suggest if you go back and focus on the real situation here with the OP, and it ain't about who should or should not reply to the Original Post, you will find the real reason the Op responded this way is that two submissives entered this board and took a shot at a newby and she is pissed... ...and she does not need my ok to be pissed, it is her "right".

seekingreality -> RE: submissive rights... (1/18/2015 11:45:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: iwillsurrnder Try reading the replies, honey. I posted this to see what Doms had to say...not subs, anyway! If I wanted your opinion I would have posted in ask a sub... Your opinion can be kept to yourself! Starting a thread on an open Internet forum is like releasing a balloon in the air; it goes where it wants. Anyone who wants to chime in can. Just because you started the thread doesn't mean you control the thread. You can't dictate who answers or create rules for the thread. Accept that at this point you are nothing more or less than a participant in this thread, with no more authority than anyone else. Accept that no one really cares what you want. Accept that people can engage in this discussion and not care one bit if you are long gone. That's the Internet, honey. It's the jungle. It's a free for all. And if you cry and get whiny that people aren't following your rules, you're like a lamp surrounding by hyenas -- everyone is laughing at you, right before the kill.

Moderator3 -> RE: submissive rights... (1/18/2015 11:54:24 PM)
LOL I must say that I am glad some are not on the Admin team and I am not having a meeting to discuss all this. Whew! I am also glad that work isn't added to the day of volunteer staff to ward off people posting as the wrong gender or position in the wrong place. The opinions posted are opinions. Someone may value one and not the other, but to expect staff to get involved sort of reminds me of babysitters or dictators and I don't like either position. Please stop volunteering me for it! [:D] The cheap shots? Oh boy. Running off newbies? Oh boy again. Knights in amour, damsels in distress and all the defenders and agitators and many taking offence to all that. This forum at its liveliest was one ruthless place to venture into and I just don't know how most of you survived it. So let's not get into a huge war over it all. I bet the forum will survive and so will the newbies. AND I know what it took to start, create, change and try to weigh a lot of choices on how things were to go and the first person that makes me go there again is getting grounded. No spankings for a month. Given or received. Can I enforce that? About as much as I can when making sure it isn't a submissive posting as a dominant, a woman and not a man and finding the time to do it all. I can be good, but I will never be that good. I promise.

MissToYouRedux -> RE: submissive rights... (1/20/2015 11:57:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Moderator3 LOL I must say that... Shameless pandering, but your posts have been so much fun to read lately. [sm=cheerleader.gif] [;)]

thishereboi -> RE: submissive rights... (1/20/2015 12:47:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery That's really it, isn't it -- everyone thinks they know better than everyone else. My doctor doesn't give me legal advice. My lawyer doesn't give me medical advice. My musician friends don't tell me how to write. My writer friends don't tell me how to perform. Knowing one doesn't have all the answers is key to any kind of real wisdom. Respecting the wishes and requests of others is key to any kind of real maturity. That's really the issue. Separate sections, group sections, clear OP requests -- none of it really matters, as long as the above is true. Sometimes, that's just the nature of interacting with others. I totally agree, however the things you mention require studying and practicing. Some even require years of college and an exam to prove they actually got it. The OP was basically asking if it was ok for a guy to say "He had to have full control over everything including whether or not there would be sex." on a first date. And you don't need to be a master to know it's wrong, all you need is a little common sense.

Musicmystery -> RE: submissive rights... (1/20/2015 1:10:10 PM)
Way to pick apart the examples and ignore the issue illustrated. Sure, the OP was simplistic. And sure, imo, which clearly isn't shared by the masses, there's a courtesy (no, not some artificial BDSM rule) being ignored. I get that people don't share that view, and that's life in a world with other people.

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