RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight

RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (Full Version)

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Musicmystery -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 10:54:40 AM)
I listen to my doctor on health matters more than anyone else. Whom do you listen to instead of your doctor, and why?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 11:04:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Do you see evidence of forced anything? Geez. Let the fuckers become diabetics, instead of helping them prevent it. Maybe just fucking shoot them. Fun for all! With automatic weapons and unstamped ammo. Here's the ominous threat: “We are calling for a national new year's resolution in January to tackle the aftermath of turkey, pud and cake,” he said. On current trends, 63 per cent of men in their 50s will be obese by 2034, along with 38 per cent of women, official data shows. If average rates of obesity were brought back to 1993 levels, around five million incidences of disease could be prevented in two decades, official forecasts show. Do you see the difference between information being between the doctor and the patient in the doctor-patient relationship...a confidential relationship...and information going outside the doctor-patient relationship to the government so that the government can now become involved in your treatment plan? You act as if the government being directly involved in your healthcare...even in an advisory capacity...is o.k. Ummmm..... Nope. The government is not involved in any way shape or form other than to pick up the tab. No information is ever passed outside of the doctor/patient confidentiality. The doctor-patient relationship of confidentiality is kept. How?? Strangely enough, it is the doctor and practice nurse that will keep tabs on dietary advice and monitoring blood pressure, weight, and all the other things needed to see that the patient is sticking to the advice. Unlike the US, doctor visits and weight monitoring/diabetic clinics are free; so it doesn't matter if they see the patient every day or two or once a week or whatever it takes. And for many surgeries, they do actually have a real-time webcam link to the patient with more coming online every day. And none of that info is passed on to any government agency - it is kept confidential between doctor and patient just like all your other medical and personal info. Where the fuck you get the idea that the government is somehow involved in the healthcare I have no idea.

Aylee -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 11:09:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark How does ANYONE ensure compliance? Even doctors can't do that, all they can do is inform their patients and hope they do as their doctor suggests. The idea that doctors are somehow more capable of getting their patients to comply is ludicrous and naive at best. The government has an option for ensuring compliance that pretty much no one else does. Government ensures compliance with their rules and policies through state-sanctioned violence. No one thinks that the doctors are going to ensure compliance. The government can. I just want to know the method.

LiveSpark -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 11:13:57 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery I listen to my doctor on health matters more than anyone else. Whom do you listen to instead of your doctor, and why? I also listen to my doctor more than anyone else. But I work for doctors and have done so for 20 years or so and an alarming number of people don't listen to their doctor. Time after time the doctor dictates that the patient doesn't take medication, hasn't made dietary changes, and doesn't exercise. There is only so much a doctor can do, the rest is up to the patient(s).

Musicmystery -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 11:16:59 AM)
An alarming number of people don't listen to anyone. They aren't singling out doctors.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 11:20:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark How does ANYONE ensure compliance? Even doctors can't do that, all they can do is inform their patients and hope they do as their doctor suggests. The idea that doctors are somehow more capable of getting their patients to comply is ludicrous and naive at best. The government has an option for ensuring compliance that pretty much no one else does. Government ensures compliance with their rules and policies through state-sanctioned violence. No one thinks that the doctors are going to ensure compliance. The government can. I just want to know the method. No, the government DOES NOT have an option for compliance. What do you think they are gonna do?? Send an armed officer to your house and frog-march you to the doctor/clinic at gun point?? No such thing as state-sanctioned violence - at least not here. So..... there is NO method. We don't live in a totalitarian dictatorship; much as you like to think we do.

LiveSpark -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 11:26:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery An alarming number of people don't listen to anyone. They aren't singling out doctors. Hey I'm just responding to those who think that there will magically be compliance if this is done by doctors. It simply isn't true.

Aylee -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 11:41:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark How does ANYONE ensure compliance? Even doctors can't do that, all they can do is inform their patients and hope they do as their doctor suggests. The idea that doctors are somehow more capable of getting their patients to comply is ludicrous and naive at best. The government has an option for ensuring compliance that pretty much no one else does. Government ensures compliance with their rules and policies through state-sanctioned violence. No one thinks that the doctors are going to ensure compliance. The government can. I just want to know the method. No, the government DOES NOT have an option for compliance. What do you think they are gonna do?? Send an armed officer to your house and frog-march you to the doctor/clinic at gun point?? No such thing as state-sanctioned violence - at least not here. So..... there is NO method. We don't live in a totalitarian dictatorship; much as you like to think we do. No state-sanctioned violence for compliance, huh? In another thread you said that parents were unable to enter school campuses during the day to have lunch with their children. What happens when a parent forces their way in? What happens when you have 10 shots in one hour and drive home from the bar? Can you snatch some girl off the street and make her cook, clean, and have sex with you? If you try and do this what happens? What happens when the speed limit is 30 and they clock you at 50? How about throwing a brick through a window? Are all of these things acceptable where you live?

Aylee -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 11:47:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery An alarming number of people don't listen to anyone. They aren't singling out doctors. Hey I'm just responding to those who think that there will magically be compliance if this is done by doctors. It simply isn't true. I think that several of us are questioning how compliance with diet and exercise is going to be ensured. "close monitoring to ensure they are eating better and exercising more." How is that going to be done?

LiveSpark -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 11:58:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery An alarming number of people don't listen to anyone. They aren't singling out doctors. Hey I'm just responding to those who think that there will magically be compliance if this is done by doctors. It simply isn't true. I think that several of us are questioning how compliance with diet and exercise is going to be ensured. "close monitoring to ensure they are eating better and exercising more." How is that going to be done? They can't, noone can including doctors. There are those who will and those who won't. So the use of the word ensure is unfortunate, perhaps to make it seem they are going to do more than they actually will/can.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 12:11:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee No state-sanctioned violence for compliance, huh? Nope. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee In another thread you said that parents were unable to enter school campuses during the day to have lunch with their children. What happens when a parent forces their way in? If uninvited or have a legitimate reason to be there, they are asked to leave. If they don't leave when invited to do so they are reported for trespassing on school property and are more than likely to be escorted off the premises by the police. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee What happens when you have 10 shots in one hour and drive home from the bar? That's your problem. You take your chances of not having an accident or getting pulled over by the police (and probably arrested for DUI). quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Can you snatch some girl off the street and make her cook, clean, and have sex with you? If you try and do this what happens? Nothing - if you don't get caught. [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee What happens when the speed limit is 30 and they clock you at 50? You get a fixed penalty fine through your letterbox. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee How about throwing a brick through a window? Again... Nothing if you run fast enough and don't get reported. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Are all of these things acceptable where you live? Nope. But we don't have armed police banging your door down like you do in the US!! And WTF have all these "what-if's" got to do with patient compliance or this topic?? The doctors are there to advise. If you don't want to take their advice, so be it. There won't be anyone chasing you about it and there won't be anyone knocking on your door either. And most assuredly, there won't be anyone armed or forcing you to follow their advice.

Aylee -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 12:21:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee No state-sanctioned violence for compliance, huh? Nope. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee In another thread you said that parents were unable to enter school campuses during the day to have lunch with their children. What happens when a parent forces their way in? If uninvited or have a legitimate reason to be there, they are asked to leave. If they don't leave when invited to do so they are reported for trespassing on school property and are more than likely to be escorted off the premises by the police. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee What happens when you have 10 shots in one hour and drive home from the bar? That's your problem. You take your chances of not having an accident or getting pulled over by the police (and probably arrested for DUI). quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Can you snatch some girl off the street and make her cook, clean, and have sex with you? If you try and do this what happens? Nothing - if you don't get caught. [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee What happens when the speed limit is 30 and they clock you at 50? You get a fixed penalty fine through your letterbox. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee How about throwing a brick through a window? Again... Nothing if you run fast enough and don't get reported. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Are all of these things acceptable where you live? Nope. But we don't have armed police banging your door down like you do in the US!! And WTF have all these "what-if's" got to do with patient compliance or this topic?? The doctors are there to advise. If you don't want to take their advice, so be it. There won't be anyone chasing you about it and there won't be anyone knocking on your door either. And most assuredly, there won't be anyone armed or forcing you to follow their advice. All of those are "penalties" are forms of state-sanctioned violence to ensure compliance with laws and regulations. If you do not want to take the doctor's advise then what does: "close monitoring to ensure they are eating better and exercising more" mean?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 12:30:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee All of those are "penalties" are forms of state-sanctioned violence to ensure compliance with laws and regulations. Nope, not violence. And breaking a law and getting due process does not involve guns and unless you want to go screaming and kicking, there isn't usually any violence either. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee If you do not want to take the doctor's advise then what does: "close monitoring to ensure they are eating better and exercising more" mean? Any moron would realize this would ONLY happen, at your doctor's surgery or clinic, IF you decided to follow their advice. Don't wanna follow it?? Nothing happens.... nothing at all. You obviously chose to ignore my other post. Typical of you. [8\|]

LiveSpark -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 12:34:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee All of those are "penalties" are forms of state-sanctioned violence to ensure compliance with laws and regulations. Nope, not violence. And breaking a law and getting due process does not involve guns and unless you want to go screaming and kicking, there isn't usually any violence either. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee If you do not want to take the doctor's advise then what does: "close monitoring to ensure they are eating better and exercising more" mean? Any moron would realize this would ONLY happen, at your doctor's surgery or clinic, IF you decided to follow their advice. Don't wanna follow it?? Nothing happens.... nothing at all. You obviously chose to ignore my other post. Typical of you. [8\|] Well no there IS one thing that happens, the patient gets sick - or at least is at risk of becoming ill. BUT as you say that is entirely the choice of the patient(s) their doctor cannot force them to do anything.

DesideriScuri -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 12:38:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery An alarming number of people don't listen to anyone. They aren't singling out doctors. Hey I'm just responding to those who think that there will magically be compliance if this is done by doctors. It simply isn't true. I think that several of us are questioning how compliance with diet and exercise is going to be ensured. "close monitoring to ensure they are eating better and exercising more." How is that going to be done? They can't, noone can including doctors. There are those who will and those who won't. So the use of the word ensure is unfortunate, perhaps to make it seem they are going to do more than they actually will/can. Here we are, 5 pages into the thread, and there is finally someone else getting the point that the whole contentious point of the OP was how it was going to be "ensured." "close monitoring to ensure they are eating better and exercising more" That phrase, can be damn scary. Regardless of FD's assertion that the government has nothing to do with health care except to pay for it, you have the directive to "identify" those that have gained weight. To whom are they going to be identified? A Dr. is going to identify his patient to himself? It sure seems like the NHS wants GP's to identify patients who are gaining weight to the NHS. While it may be benign (it would likely be abused in the US), it's still government intruding on a person's health care, doesn't it?

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 12:39:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee All of those are "penalties" are forms of state-sanctioned violence to ensure compliance with laws and regulations. Nope, not violence. And breaking a law and getting due process does not involve guns and unless you want to go screaming and kicking, there isn't usually any violence either. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee If you do not want to take the doctor's advise then what does: "close monitoring to ensure they are eating better and exercising more" mean? Any moron would realize this would ONLY happen, at your doctor's surgery or clinic, IF you decided to follow their advice. Don't wanna follow it?? Nothing happens.... nothing at all. You obviously chose to ignore my other post. Typical of you. [8\|] Well no there IS one thing that happens, the patient gets sick - or at least is at risk of becoming ill. BUT as you say that is entirely the choice of the patient(s) their doctor cannot force them to do anything. Very true!! [:D] And even if/when they do get sick - the systems pays for anything they need to get better.

BamaD -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 12:44:14 PM)
Nothing - if you don't get caught. Come on fd this is bad even for you. No matter what you do nothing happens to you if you don't get caught.

LiveSpark -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 12:44:19 PM)
"Very true!! And even if/when they do get sick - the systems pays for anything they need to get better. " Exactly. I don't know where all this panic about being "forced" to comply or magic ability of doctors to get their patients to comply comes from. It's entirely within the power of the patients to decide whether to comply or not.

BamaD -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 12:46:47 PM)
If they don't leave when invited to do so they are reported for trespassing on school property and are more than likely to be escorted off the premises by the police. FD Then the police constitute state-sanctioned violence.

BamaD -> RE: Doctors told to report patients who put on weight (12/27/2014 12:51:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee All of those are "penalties" are forms of state-sanctioned violence to ensure compliance with laws and regulations. Nope, not violence. And breaking a law and getting due process does not involve guns and unless you want to go screaming and kicking, there isn't usually any violence either. quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee If you do not want to take the doctor's advise then what does: "close monitoring to ensure they are eating better and exercising more" mean? Any moron would realize this would ONLY happen, at your doctor's surgery or clinic, IF you decided to follow their advice. Don't wanna follow it?? Nothing happens.... nothing at all. You obviously chose to ignore my other post. Typical of you. [8\|] You are the only one to mention guns. You also don't seemed to comprehend that state sanctioned force can take many forms, even fines are backed by the states ability to use any level of force they deem necessary. If it only happens at the doctors office who are they reporting the weight gains to and why?

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