quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Because what people posted indicated the beating had already stopped, the cops were on their way, and the issue was that the guy became irate toward the husband.

So just back off and let him rant. The gun is just "Oh yeah! I've got a gun! Finally, I get to draw it on someone! Awesome!"

Could have been just as easily handled without a gun and less ego. It's a coincidental carry story, not a "success" because someone had a gun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD
Personally I believe that if you carry the firearm should always be in your direct control. If she was going to keep it in her purse she should have kept the purse on her.

Had she put the purse down? I was looking, and couldn't find any source that said whether she still had it on her shoulder, or if it wasn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tweakabelle

Has the question of whether the gun's safety was on or off been clarified? It seems so obvious to insist that the safety mechanism should have been on, though it seems just as obvious that (a) the gun was fired; and (b) an infant wouldn't be able to release the safety before firing the weapon, both of which suggest that the mechanism wasn't in position.

If the safety wasn't in position, then it would appear that this woman's errors were twofold - leaving the gun in a position where a child could access it and failing to ensure that the safety was on. While I personally feel that these errors are deplorable, the second is the kind of thing that a stressed busy mother with an infant could so easily overlook.

No amount of training or education will guarantee prevention of the first of these errors, while anyone who fails to ensure that loaded guns have their safety mechanisms deployed, (especially when there are children around) is clearly not a person responsible enough to be handling firearms. Eliminating these levels of incompetence and/or negligence seems impossible so tightening gun laws seems the only viable option if we wish to stop repetitions of this tragedy occurring.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is where knee-jerk gun-nuttery defense rolls in. It's a toddler. A toddler! With no safety provisions but a toddler can just reach in and fire. Rambo ready gun

.

I've got to say - as someone who finds this kind of tragedy utterly alien to him and his non-gun-culture - if they can make cheap plastic bottles with caps that toddlers can't get off, how come something similar can't be done effectively and economically with the safety catches of much more expensive firearms?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Because what people posted indicated the beating had already stopped, the cops were on their way, and the issue was that the guy became irate toward the husband.

So just back off and let him rant. The gun is just "Oh yeah! I've got a gun! Finally, I get to draw it on someone! Awesome!"

Could have been just as easily handled without a gun and less ego. It's a coincidental carry story, not a "success" because someone had a gun.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is where knee-jerk gun-nuttery defense rolls in. It's a toddler. A toddler! With no safety provisions but a toddler can just reach in and fire. Rambo ready gun

.

I've got to say - as someone who finds this kind of tragedy utterly alien to him and his non-gun-culture - if they can make cheap plastic bottles with caps that toddlers can't get off, how come something similar can't be done effectively and economically with the safety catches of much more expensive firearms?

They can, and do. But (1) the gun nuts don't like to use them and (2) the NRA opposes them.

These are not issues that come up for responsible gun-owners, vs. the knee-jerk defend-guns-at-all-costs crowd here.

But just as traffic laws exist largely for the irresponsible, and hate speech for those unable to use free speech wisely, so too sensible safeguards help make society safer from those who handle such dead force irresponsibly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I don't see where what you're posting disagrees.

Argue away yourself. I'm just answering the questions posed.

THAT'S what I mean about knee-jerk defensiveness when whatever the topic is involves guns.

The wagons reflexively circle, and the old tired anecdotes come out yet again.

All while assuming positions I've never held nor voiced.

It's a circus.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is where knee-jerk gun-nuttery defense rolls in. It's a toddler. A toddler! With no safety provisions but a toddler can just reach in and fire. Rambo ready gun

.

I've got to say - as someone who finds this kind of tragedy utterly alien to him and his non-gun-culture - if they can make cheap plastic bottles with caps that toddlers can't get off, how come something similar can't be done effectively and economically with the safety catches of much more expensive firearms?

Because the plastic bottles are made to be difficult to open, that level of difficulty would be fatal in a crisis situation with a firearm.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

I don't know enough about the permit laws and state laws and what not...but this particular accident would not have occurred had the woman in question been allowed to carry her weapon openly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I wonder how the surviving parent/family will deal with the fact that the baby killed his mother.. will they ever tell the kid when he gets older? How do you that? How will he feel when he is old enough to grasp what he did?

You treat it just like you would with any other accident

Unless you really believe that this particular accident is heinous on the babys part because a gun was involved

Oh ffs.. That's not what I meant and you know it.. Even tho logically it was just an accident, imo, the child learning he shot his mother & knowing that is going to leave a kid with huge emotional "scars" and guilt, etc.. really, how can it not? Every time someone asks a question about his parents & especially if they ask how she died.. that is going to be a reminder for his whole life..

A kid got a scooter for Christmas.
First time he road it he was hit by a car and killed.
The parents will have to live with the fact that if they hadn't given him a scooter he would still be alive.
Should we bn scooters?

I am guessing the "bn" in your last sentence means "ban"???? Where in my posts did I say anything about banning guns? My post was about the logic behind a "successful carry story" which gun owners use to justify carrying (so they can shoot the shooters, which in this case would be a baby/toddler) and it was about the difficulty in telling said killer toddler that he killed his mother and how hard it would be for him, emotionally, to deal with that fact.. I cant imagine how hard it will be for him when he gets older.. kids at school nicknaming him "one shot" or having to tell his potential girlfriend/wife how his mother died.. etc, etc, etc..

As for your pitiful example.. it wasn't the scooter that killed the kid, it was the car that killed him.. and yes, the parents should feel guilty cuz they didn't watch the kid when he was playing on the street and teach him to immediately get on the sidewalk anytime a moving car is within a block of him!..

So we should do something about cars.
Wait cars are regulated more than just about anything, except guns.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

I wonder how the surviving parent/family will deal with the fact that the baby killed his mother.. will they ever tell the kid when he gets older? How do you that? How will he feel when he is old enough to grasp what he did?

You treat it just like you would with any other accident

Unless you really believe that this particular accident is heinous on the babys part because a gun was involved

Oh ffs.. That's not what I meant and you know it.. Even tho logically it was just an accident, imo, the child learning he shot his mother & knowing that is going to leave a kid with huge emotional "scars" and guilt, etc.. really, how can it not? Every time someone asks a question about his parents & especially if they ask how she died.. that is going to be a reminder for his whole life..

A kid got a scooter for Christmas.
First time he road it he was hit by a car and killed.
The parents will have to live with the fact that if they hadn't given him a scooter he would still be alive.
Should we bn scooters?

I am guessing the "bn" in your last sentence means "ban"???? Where in my posts did I say anything about banning guns? My post was about the logic behind a "successful carry story" which gun owners use to justify carrying (so they can shoot the shooters, which in this case would be a baby/toddler) and it was about the difficulty in telling said killer toddler that he killed his mother and how hard it would be for him, emotionally, to deal with that fact.. I cant imagine how hard it will be for him when he gets older.. kids at school nicknaming him "one shot" or having to tell his potential girlfriend/wife how his mother died.. etc, etc, etc..

As for your pitiful example.. it wasn't the scooter that killed the kid, it was the car that killed him.. and yes, the parents should feel guilty cuz they didn't watch the kid when he was playing on the street and teach him to immediately get on the sidewalk anytime a moving car is within a block of him!..

So we should do something about cars.
Wait cars are regulated more than just about anything, except guns.

Actually no.. people don't get a DL without having training in how to drive & passing both a written and driving test... unfortunately morons aren't required to have any training or commonsense to have kids, which they may not have a clue how to teach their kids how to play outside (on scooters, etc) safely..

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And you don't have to prove that you have a spotless record to buy a car.
If we had the same restrictions on cars we do on guns half the people out there couldn't own one. What federal agency routinely checks the sales records of car dealers to make sure the have crossed every t and dotted every i?
Then you must favor gun classes in schools like we have drivers education.
you only know the propaganda about gun regulation, not the truth.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is where knee-jerk gun-nuttery defense rolls in. It's a toddler. A toddler! With no safety provisions but a toddler can just reach in and fire. Rambo ready gun

.

I've got to say - as someone who finds this kind of tragedy utterly alien to him and his non-gun-culture - if they can make cheap plastic bottles with caps that toddlers can't get off, how come something similar can't be done effectively and economically with the safety catches of much more expensive firearms?

They can, and do. But (1) the gun nuts don't like to use them and (2) the NRA opposes them.

These are not issues that come up for responsible gun-owners, vs. the knee-jerk defend-guns-at-all-costs crowd here.

But just as traffic laws exist largely for the irresponsible, and hate speech for those unable to use free speech wisely, so too sensible safeguards help make society safer from those who handle such dead force irresponsibly.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thishereboi

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Because what people posted indicated the beating had already stopped, the cops were on their way, and the issue was that the guy became irate toward the husband.

So just back off and let him rant. The gun is just "Oh yeah! I've got a gun! Finally, I get to draw it on someone! Awesome!"

Could have been just as easily handled without a gun and less ego. It's a coincidental carry story, not a "success" because someone had a gun.

Did Bama post this story before? Because the post I replied to came right after bama's story and no one had said anything at that point. And in that post he said "When the beater became hostile toward the husband he used his firearm to "persuade" the beater to cease and wait for the police." so I am not sure where you are getting the idea that it's a coincidence unless you just can't stand the fact that sometimes having a gun helps. In which case argue away.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And you don't have to prove that you have a spotless record to buy a car.
If we had the same restrictions on cars we do on guns half the people out there couldn't own one. What federal agency routinely checks the sales records of car dealers to make sure the have crossed every t and dotted every i?
Then you must favor gun classes in schools like we have drivers education.
you only know the propaganda about gun regulation, not the truth.

Oh brother.. Actually... You don't even need a DL (or vehicle insurance) to buy & register a car, you just can't legally drive a car without a valid DL (but someone else with a valid DL & insurance can). That is how corporations (that obviously cant qualify for a DL) can own vehicles.. and that is how you can go to a car rental place an rent a car you do not own..

What I do know about guns is there are too many brainless idjots that own/use them.. I would actually favour a minimum IQ requirement on gun ownership/use!..

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

This is where knee-jerk gun-nuttery defense rolls in. It's a toddler. A toddler! With no safety provisions but a toddler can just reach in and fire. Rambo ready gun

.

I've got to say - as someone who finds this kind of tragedy utterly alien to him and his non-gun-culture - if they can make cheap plastic bottles with caps that toddlers can't get off, how come something similar can't be done effectively and economically with the safety catches of much more expensive firearms?

They can, and do. But (1) the gun nuts don't like to use them and (2) the NRA opposes them.

These are not issues that come up for responsible gun-owners, vs. the knee-jerk defend-guns-at-all-costs crowd here.

But just as traffic laws exist largely for the irresponsible, and hate speech for those unable to use free speech wisely, so too sensible safeguards help make society safer from those who handle such dead force irresponsibly.

Love how anybody that opposes the anti-gun crowd gets labeled a knee jerk gun defender.

There are sensible laws in place. Enforce them. Tragedies occur, whether it is a parent who lets their kid drive with a cellphone anywhere on their person...where ARE all the folks calling for a ban on teenagers having a cellphone while in a car?...or a busy, stressed mother who sets her purse down and let's her attention wander...to one of the other children, perhaps? They can't all be stopped without the state assuming complete control. Most people don't want that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: tj444

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

And you don't have to prove that you have a spotless record to buy a car.
If we had the same restrictions on cars we do on guns half the people out there couldn't own one. What federal agency routinely checks the sales records of car dealers to make sure the have crossed every t and dotted every i?
Then you must favor gun classes in schools like we have drivers education.
you only know the propaganda about gun regulation, not the truth.

Oh brother.. Actually... You don't even need a DL (or vehicle insurance) to buy & register a car, you just can't legally drive a car without a valid DL (but someone else with a valid DL & insurance can). That is how corporations (that obviously cant qualify for a DL) can own vehicles.. and that is how you can go to a car rental place an rent a car you do not own..

What I do know about guns is there are too many brainless idjots that own/use them.. I would actually favour a minimum IQ requirement on gun ownership/use!..

Were does the law tell you what size gas tank you can have?
Or how many cylinders?
Or require a governor?
And you won't answer about firearms eduction in schools like they used to do.