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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And yet....clearly there is a need for a safety, as this toddler demonstrated.

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've got to say - as someone who finds this kind of tragedy utterly alien to him and his non-gun-culture - if they can make cheap plastic bottles with caps that toddlers can't get off, how come something similar can't be done effectively and economically with the safety catches of much more expensive firearms?

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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This is where knee-jerk gun-nuttery defense rolls in. It's a toddler. A toddler! With no safety provisions but a toddler can just reach in and fire. Rambo ready gun

.

I've got to say - as someone who finds this kind of tragedy utterly alien to him and his non-gun-culture - if they can make cheap plastic bottles with caps that toddlers can't get off, how come something similar can't be done effectively and economically with the safety catches of much more expensive firearms?

They can, and do. But (1) the gun nuts don't like to use them and (2) the NRA opposes them.

These are not issues that come up for responsible gun-owners, vs. the knee-jerk defend-guns-at-all-costs crowd here.

But just as traffic laws exist largely for the irresponsible, and hate speech for those unable to use free speech wisely, so too sensible safeguards help make society safer from those who handle such dead force irresponsibly.

Love how anybody that opposes the anti-gun crowd gets labeled a knee jerk gun defender.

There are sensible laws in place. Enforce them. Tragedies occur, whether it is a parent who lets their kid drive with a cellphone anywhere on their person...where ARE all the folks calling for a ban on teenagers having a cellphone while in a car?...or a busy, stressed mother who sets her purse down and let's her attention wander...to one of the other children, perhaps? They can't all be stopped without the state assuming complete control. Most people don't want that.

Nope.

It's statements like "anybody that opposes the anti-gun crowd gets labeled a knee jerk gun defender" when that has already been qualified, including yet again in this thread. But no, you go to your go-to strawman, and wring your hands, to avoid actually thinking.

Guess what? There ARE laws against cell phones and texting in cars.

And people who will carry loaded, ready-to-fire weapons, especially with children, need better regulation. They are dangerous.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

If you're just going to make up my positions, why do you need me for this discussion?

Yet again (can you read?), no, I don't "want to make sure that guns are not accessible to anyone."

But THIS is why I see you as a knee-jerk defensive gun-nutter. You want to have an honest discussion, fine.

INstead, you're only interested in circling the wagons around anything resembling a gun, whatever the consequences.

At issue here is responsible gun ownership. What exactly is the probably with that for you?

I know MANY gun owners here -- none of whom oppose sensible legislation.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I don't see where what you're posting disagrees.

Argue away yourself. I'm just answering the questions posed.

THAT'S what I mean about knee-jerk defensiveness when whatever the topic is involves guns.

The wagons reflexively circle, and the old tired anecdotes come out yet again.

All while assuming positions I've never held nor voiced.

It's a circus.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And those who leave unattended firearms in public places should not be afforded the chance. Nor should those who leave loaded, ready-to-fire weapons where children, even a toddler, can get them.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

most safeties are slide action either way.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes, in the account I read she left it in her shopping cart, how else could the kid have gotten to it so easy?

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

most safeties are slide action either way.

Isn't there a way of making this slide action impossible for small and weak hands but quick and easy for adult (albeit, say, female and not muscular) hands?

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ORIGINAL: BamaD
Not and have them dependable to work in a pinch.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Exactly.

One of my friends works in NYC a lot, and carries a firearm in his truck--ready, but secured. He doesn't saunter down the street thinking he's in Tombstone.

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Not in ALL states. And in some of these states, the laws are not even primary.

"Talking on a hand-held cellphone while driving is banned in 14 states and the District of Columbia. The use of all cellphones by novice drivers is restricted in 37 states and the District of Columbia. Text messaging is banned for all drivers in 44 states and the District of Columbia"
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/laws/cellphonelaws/maphandheldcellbans

And yet, people die while texting/talking on their cellphones and trying to drive. Especially children. These people need to be better-regulated.

Maybe some more laws? Or make cellphone laws primary all the way across the board?

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

most safeties are slide action either way.

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Not in ALL states. And in some of these states, the laws are not even primary.

"Talking on a hand-held cellphone while driving is banned in 14 states and the District of Columbia. The use of all cellphones by novice drivers is restricted in 37 states and the District of Columbia. Text messaging is banned for all drivers in 44 states and the District of Columbia"
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/laws/cellphonelaws/maphandheldcellbans

And yet, people die while texting/talking on their cellphones and trying to drive. Especially children. These people need to be better-regulated.

Maybe some more laws? Or make cellphone laws primary all the way across the board?

Either outlaw them, altogether or make them so that there's a "safety lock" on the phone where you have to prove to Big Brother that you're not driving, at the moment and they unlock the phone. The default position is locked.

If you're camping and it's raining and you're in your vehicle to stay out of the rain and you need to call the cops or rangers for help, you're fucked. Your phone's locked

Michael

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

most safeties are slide action either way.

Sure, which means they're not going to be "child-safe". Most snap on and off pretty easily. Kids that play with activity centers that have switches and levers to click can work a safety.

Peon asked why we can't have child-proof safeties, along the lines of medicine bottles. The more complicated you make it, the slower it is to activate. And even then it's no guarantee. As I said, my wife couldn't open child-proof caps, but her grand-kids could. So who is that protecting?

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

Not in ALL states. And in some of these states, the laws are not even primary.

"Talking on a hand-held cellphone while driving is banned in 14 states and the District of Columbia. The use of all cellphones by novice drivers is restricted in 37 states and the District of Columbia. Text messaging is banned for all drivers in 44 states and the District of Columbia"
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/laws/cellphonelaws/maphandheldcellbans

And yet, people die while texting/talking on their cellphones and trying to drive. Especially children. These people need to be better-regulated.

Maybe some more laws? Or make cellphone laws primary all the way across the board?

Either outlaw them, altogether or make them so that there's a "safety lock" on the phone where you have to prove to Big Brother that you're not driving, at the moment and they unlock the phone. The default position is locked.

If you're camping and it's raining and you're in your vehicle to stay out of the rain and you need to call the cops or rangers for help, you're fucked. Your phone's locked

Michael

But...but...but Michael...shouldn't the Rangers or Police be patrolling the campground to make sue no one is doing anything illegal?

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I think more are killed by guns than cellphones, lets start with the low hanging fruits.