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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I've got to say - as someone who finds this kind of tragedy utterly alien to him and his non-gun-culture - if they can make cheap plastic bottles with caps that toddlers can't get off, how come something similar can't be done effectively and economically with the safety catches of much more expensive firearms?

Sure, you can put on controls that make it impossible for a child to activate it, in theory. Ever fumble around trying to open a child-proof cap? I have, not something I want to be doing if I ever need to keep from getting shot. Hell my wife could never get child-proof caps off, but her grand-kids could just about every time.

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I carried a WW2 1911 with 7 separate safeties. It was old and loose as a goose. no safety failed, and they could be unlocked in less than a second. That gun has killed hundreds of thousands.

So, bullshit.

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ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And yet....clearly there is a need for a safety, as this toddler demonstrated.

Yet even more clearly, additional mechanical safety devices are not the answer.

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

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This is where knee-jerk gun-nuttery defense rolls in. It's a toddler. A toddler! With no safety provisions but a toddler can just reach in and fire. Rambo ready gun

.

I've got to say - as someone who finds this kind of tragedy utterly alien to him and his non-gun-culture - if they can make cheap plastic bottles with caps that toddlers can't get off, how come something similar can't be done effectively and economically with the safety catches of much more expensive firearms?

They can, and do. But (1) the gun nuts don't like to use them and (2) the NRA opposes them.

These are not issues that come up for responsible gun-owners, vs. the knee-jerk defend-guns-at-all-costs crowd here.

But just as traffic laws exist largely for the irresponsible, and hate speech for those unable to use free speech wisely, so too sensible safeguards help make society safer from those who handle such dead force irresponsibly.

Love how anybody that opposes the anti-gun crowd gets labeled a knee jerk gun defender.

There are sensible laws in place. Enforce them. Tragedies occur, whether it is a parent who lets their kid drive with a cellphone anywhere on their person...where ARE all the folks calling for a ban on teenagers having a cellphone while in a car?...or a busy, stressed mother who sets her purse down and let's her attention wander...to one of the other children, perhaps? They can't all be stopped without the state assuming complete control. Most people don't want that.

Nope.

It's statements like "anybody that opposes the anti-gun crowd gets labeled a knee jerk gun defender" when that has already been qualified, including yet again in this thread. But no, you go to your go-to strawman, and wring your hands, to avoid actually thinking.

Guess what? There ARE laws against cell phones and texting in cars.

And people who will carry loaded, ready-to-fire weapons, especially with children, need better regulation. They are dangerous.

Not in ALL states. And in some of these states, the laws are not even primary.

"Talking on a hand-held cellphone while driving is banned in 14 states and the District of Columbia. The use of all cellphones by novice drivers is restricted in 37 states and the District of Columbia. Text messaging is banned for all drivers in 44 states and the District of Columbia"
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/laws/cellphonelaws/maphandheldcellbans

And yet, people die while texting/talking on their cellphones and trying to drive. Especially children. These people need to be better-regulated.

Maybe some more laws? Or make cellphone laws primary all the way across the board?

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ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And those who leave unattended firearms in public places should not be afforded the chance. Nor should those who leave loaded, ready-to-fire weapons where children, even a toddler, can get them.

What exactly would legislation to achieve these look like? Other than a ban on gun ownership?

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I carried a WW2 1911 with 7 separate safeties. It was old and loose as a goose. no safety failed, and they could be unlocked in less than a second. That gun has killed hundreds of thousands.

So, bullshit.

I'm sorry, but what 7 safeties are there on a 1911? The only one I can think of right off is the big thumb safety near the hammer.

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I don't see where what you're posting disagrees.

Argue away yourself. I'm just answering the questions posed.

THAT'S what I mean about knee-jerk defensiveness when whatever the topic is involves guns.

The wagons reflexively circle, and the old tired anecdotes come out yet again.

All while assuming positions I've never held nor voiced.

It's a circus.

As opposed to knee-jerk Oh he had a gun, he most be thinking like Rambo posts? You love to talk about reflexive posting and circle the wagons mentality, but why is it you can only see that from the other side?

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes, in the account I read she left it in her shopping cart, how else could the kid have gotten to it so easy?

Big purse, she's pushing the cart, the youngest starts playing in the purse. You see kids doing that all the time. But she may have put the purse into the cart, I wasn't able to find anything that said one way or another. If that's what happened, I'd agree, that was incredibly irresponsible. If you're going to carry, maintain control of your weapon.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And those who leave unattended firearms in public places should not be afforded the chance. Nor should those who leave loaded, ready-to-fire weapons where children, even a toddler, can get them.

What exactly would legislation to achieve these look like? Other than a ban on gun ownership?

Well, if that's what you want, I'm OK with that...though it seems damn extreme. You really think it's necessary to ban, for example, hunting rifles to keep mom from leaving it in her purse where her toddler can fire it?

And you wonder why I don't think highly of you legal minds...

BTW, who's sock are you?

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes, in the account I read she left it in her shopping cart, how else could the kid have gotten to it so easy?

Big purse, she's pushing the cart, the youngest starts playing in the purse. You see kids doing that all the time. But she may have put the purse into the cart, I wasn't able to find anything that said one way or another. If that's what happened, I'd agree, that was incredibly irresponsible. If you're going to carry, maintain control of your weapon.

At least we agree on something.

Where we seem to disagree is that if you don't, oh well, shit happens, right?

Or if that's unfair--OK, what should happen here?

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Exactly.

One of my friends works in NYC a lot, and carries a firearm in his truck--ready, but secured. He doesn't saunter down the street thinking he's in Tombstone.

You have a friend who brings a loaded gun into NYC? Does he have a permit for that? Cause if not, he's breaking the law every time he rolls across the bridge.

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

When the other "side" is this nonsense?

Asked and answered.

The word "gun" appears, and the rapid response team runs in convinced everyone wants to ban all guns, which a number of you have explicitly voiced.

Yup. Circus.

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

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ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

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ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes, in the account I read she left it in her shopping cart, how else could the kid have gotten to it so easy?

Big purse, she's pushing the cart, the youngest starts playing in the purse. You see kids doing that all the time. But she may have put the purse into the cart, I wasn't able to find anything that said one way or another. If that's what happened, I'd agree, that was incredibly irresponsible. If you're going to carry, maintain control of your weapon.

At least we agree on something.

Where we seem to disagree is that if you don't, oh well, shit happens, right?

Or if that's unfair--OK, what should happen here?

As I also said leaving a firearm unattended in a public place is reckless endangerment. There's the law for that.

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ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

So that's an admission that you can't craft legislation like you called for...?