quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

So that's an admission that you can't craft legislation like you called for...?

What are you talking about? Of course you can.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

Then you and peon should design it and make billions of dollars...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes, in the account I read she left it in her shopping cart, how else could the kid have gotten to it so easy?

Big purse, she's pushing the cart, the youngest starts playing in the purse. You see kids doing that all the time. But she may have put the purse into the cart, I wasn't able to find anything that said one way or another. If that's what happened, I'd agree, that was incredibly irresponsible. If you're going to carry, maintain control of your weapon.

At least we agree on something.

Where we seem to disagree is that if you don't, oh well, shit happens, right?

Or if that's unfair--OK, what should happen here?

As I also said leaving a firearm unattended in a public place is reckless endangerment. There's the law for that.

Tell me...how are you going to go about seeing which moms brought loaded weapons in their purses to the supermarket?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And those who leave unattended firearms in public places should not be afforded the chance. Nor should those who leave loaded, ready-to-fire weapons where children, even a toddler, can get them.

What exactly would legislation to achieve these look like? Other than a ban on gun ownership?

Well, if that's what you want, I'm OK with that...though it seems damn extreme. You really think it's necessary to ban, for example, hunting rifles to keep mom from leaving it in her purse where her toddler can fire it?

And you wonder why I don't think highly of you legal minds...

BTW, who's sock are you?

So you would favor an (unconstitutional) ban but what short of that would you favor, you keep saying no one will go along with your ideas but you won't tell us what they are.
How about firearms education classes like we do drivers education, seems that it would cover your proclamations about the alleged "ignorance" of gun owners.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes, in the account I read she left it in her shopping cart, how else could the kid have gotten to it so easy?

Big purse, she's pushing the cart, the youngest starts playing in the purse. You see kids doing that all the time. But she may have put the purse into the cart, I wasn't able to find anything that said one way or another. If that's what happened, I'd agree, that was incredibly irresponsible. If you're going to carry, maintain control of your weapon.

At least we agree on something.

Where we seem to disagree is that if you don't, oh well, shit happens, right?

Or if that's unfair--OK, what should happen here?

As I also said leaving a firearm unattended in a public place is reckless endangerment. There's the law for that.

Tell me...how are you going to go about seeing which moms brought loaded weapons in their purses to the supermarket?

How are you going to?
If nobody sees it, it doesn't endanger anyone now does it.
Again, and you seem to have a problem following this, the problem wasn't that it was in her purse, it was she left the purse unattended.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

Well MM keeps saying he wants legislation, but won't give an explanation of what it would look like. Except he is OK with a total ban on private firearm ownership... smells like intellectual dishonesty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

Well MM keeps saying he wants legislation, but won't give an explanation of what it would look like. Except he is OK with a total ban on private firearm ownership... smells like intellectual dishonesty.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I carried a WW2 1911 with 7 separate safeties. It was old and loose as a goose. no safety failed, and they could be unlocked in less than a second. That gun has killed hundreds of thousands.

So, bullshit.

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

Well MM keeps saying he wants legislation, but won't give an explanation of what it would look like. Except he is OK with a total ban on private firearm ownership... smells like intellectual dishonesty.

Straw man, luckydog, straw man. He never has called for that, so far as I've ever seen.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

Well MM keeps saying he wants legislation, but won't give an explanation of what it would look like. Except he is OK with a total ban on private firearm ownership... smells like intellectual dishonesty.

Wrong on both counts. You're not very good at this.

1) Already shared and debated the first one
2) Already explicitly corrected the second knee-jerk assumption multiple times

Ah...been a while since someone trotted out "intellectual dishonesty," another buzz word to avoid real logic.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

Yes, in the account I read she left it in her shopping cart, how else could the kid have gotten to it so easy?

Big purse, she's pushing the cart, the youngest starts playing in the purse. You see kids doing that all the time. But she may have put the purse into the cart, I wasn't able to find anything that said one way or another. If that's what happened, I'd agree, that was incredibly irresponsible. If you're going to carry, maintain control of your weapon.

At least we agree on something.

Where we seem to disagree is that if you don't, oh well, shit happens, right?

Or if that's unfair--OK, what should happen here?

As I also said leaving a firearm unattended in a public place is reckless endangerment. There's the law for that.

Tell me...how are you going to go about seeing which moms brought loaded weapons in their purses to the supermarket?

How are you going to?
If nobody sees it, it doesn't endanger anyone now does it.
Again, and you seem to have a problem following this, the problem wasn't that it was in her purse, it was she left the purse unattended.

Circles are your favorite shape, aren't they.

OK. How are you going to police moms leaving unattended purses containing loaded firearms?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And those who leave unattended firearms in public places should not be afforded the chance. Nor should those who leave loaded, ready-to-fire weapons where children, even a toddler, can get them.

What exactly would legislation to achieve these look like? Other than a ban on gun ownership?

Well, if that's what you want, I'm OK with that...though it seems damn extreme. You really think it's necessary to ban, for example, hunting rifles to keep mom from leaving it in her purse where her toddler can fire it?

And you wonder why I don't think highly of you legal minds...

BTW, who's sock are you?

So you would favor an (unconstitutional) ban but what short of that would you favor, you keep saying no one will go along with your ideas but you won't tell us what they are.
How about firearms education classes like we do drivers education, seems that it would cover your proclamations about the alleged "ignorance" of gun owners.

Well gosh, here's a thought -- actually read the posts, and you'd know the positions better.

And again, you're ascribing positions I don't have, just making them up. I'm supposed to take you seriously?

And there are MANY people who "go along with my ideas" in this country and many more who would go much further.

I have LONG advocated for mandatory firearms training for gun ownership. There we agree.

As for ignorant gun owners, good lord, we'd be here all day going through the news accounts. Then you'd spend the next year posting good gun news, as if this suddenly means there aren't clueless ones.

Most drivers are reasonable. Many aren't--so we have traffic laws to regulate them. And no, we don't ban driving.

Guys--the world isn't either/or.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovmuffin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And yet....clearly there is a need for a safety, as this toddler demonstrated.

Yet even more clearly, additional mechanical safety devices are not the answer.

Since there IS no safety, "additional" seems not such a great barrier.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

The problem with this question is, there's no guarantee that it even had a safety. Some do, some don't. I prefer SIGs, they don't have safeties. For me, this simplifies things. If the gun is in the holster I know that it's loaded and there's no safety to worry about. But then I don't drop mine into a purse.

I checked on the S&W M&P Shield that she was carrying, they have two basic variants within each model, one with and one without a thumb-safety. So unless pictures of the actual gun she had are released, I doubt we'll ever know.

A few things though. You said that the child was an infant, but most accounts state it was a toddler. That's two very different things. Depending on the gun, some toddlers could easily work the safety. It's just a switch that clicks up and down. Most don't require that much pressure, since they want them to be easy to operate in an emergency. (The M&P looks trickier, but it's still just a switch.) Hell, the way they click, they even sound like some children's toys. The way kids will grab something and start poking and prodding at them, I can see this happening.

No offense, but there's no way to guarantee that children won't get hurt ever. That's called life. I realize that we want to pretend we can wrap children up in batting and make them perfectly safe, but that's just not the case. No matter what, your go to solution is more and stricter gun laws. It doesn't matter what happened, you're happy to use any incident with a gun as an excuse to make guns harder to get. Because you just don't like people having them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: BamaD

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And those who leave unattended firearms in public places should not be afforded the chance. Nor should those who leave loaded, ready-to-fire weapons where children, even a toddler, can get them.

What exactly would legislation to achieve these look like? Other than a ban on gun ownership?

Well, if that's what you want, I'm OK with that...though it seems damn extreme. You really think it's necessary to ban, for example, hunting rifles to keep mom from leaving it in her purse where her toddler can fire it?

And you wonder why I don't think highly of you legal minds...

BTW, who's sock are you?

So you would favor an (unconstitutional) ban but what short of that would you favor, you keep saying no one will go along with your ideas but you won't tell us what they are.
How about firearms education classes like we do drivers education, seems that it would cover your proclamations about the alleged "ignorance" of gun owners.

Well gosh, here's a thought -- actually read the posts, and you'd know the positions better.

And again, you're ascribing positions I don't have, just making them up. I'm supposed to take you seriously?

And there are MANY people who "go along with my ideas" in this country and many more who would go much further.

I have LONG advocated for mandatory firearms training for gun ownership. There we agree.

As for ignorant gun owners, good lord, we'd be here all day going through the news accounts. Then you'd spend the next year posting good gun news, as if this suddenly means there aren't clueless ones.

Most drivers are reasonable. Many aren't--so we have traffic laws to regulate them. And no, we don't ban driving.

Guys--the world isn't either/or.

You must not drive a lot, almost every time I go out I see people who shouldn't drive.
And you still dodged the point about teaching firearms training IN THE SCHOOLS most anti gunners want more training but they want to be sure it is expensive enough to put ownership out of many people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: luckyd0g

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

And those who leave unattended firearms in public places should not be afforded the chance. Nor should those who leave loaded, ready-to-fire weapons where children, even a toddler, can get them.

What exactly would legislation to achieve these look like? Other than a ban on gun ownership?

Well, if that's what you want, I'm OK with that...though it seems damn extreme. You really think it's necessary to ban, for example, hunting rifles to keep mom from leaving it in her purse where her toddler can fire it?

And you wonder why I don't think highly of you legal minds...

BTW, who's sock are you?

quote:

ORIGINAL: quizzicalkitten

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

The problem with this question is, there's no guarantee that it even had a safety. Some do, some don't. I prefer SIGs, they don't have safeties. For me, this simplifies things. If the gun is in the holster I know that it's loaded and there's no safety to worry about. But then I don't drop mine into a purse.

I checked on the S&W M&P Shield that she was carrying, they have two basic variants within each model, one with and one without a thumb-safety. So unless pictures of the actual gun she had are released, I doubt we'll ever know.

A few things though. You said that the child was an infant, but most accounts state it was a toddler. That's two very different things. Depending on the gun, some toddlers could easily work the safety. It's just a switch that clicks up and down. Most don't require that much pressure, since they want them to be easy to operate in an emergency. (The M&P looks trickier, but it's still just a switch.) Hell, the way they click, they even sound like some children's toys. The way kids will grab something and start poking and prodding at them, I can see this happening.

No offense, but there's no way to guarantee that children won't get hurt ever. That's called life. I realize that we want to pretend we can wrap children up in batting and make them perfectly safe, but that's just not the case. No matter what, your go to solution is more and stricter gun laws. It doesn't matter what happened, you're happy to use any incident with a gun as an excuse to make guns harder to get. Because you just don't like people having them.

As an owner of said model with a safety, its a very easy and can be done with a fingernail flick. It does have a small click.

As to the other stupidity on this thread.... nothing will cure stupid, as demonstrated by many a posters requesting more laws when current laws cover the issue.