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RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 8:11:16 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Actually, I came up with two -- address the design flaw, and investigate training effectiveness and re-evaluate. They were even discussed quite a bit on this thread. You only see what you want to see, and you don't even seem aware.

Meanwhile, you came up with essentially "People die from other stuff, so let's just forget the whole thing."

I've answered to "do you want to ban" question repeatedly in this thread alone.

If it's not a stock answer, you don't know what to say, so you repeat yourself.

You don't want to hear it. Fine. I get it. There are people like that, and you're one of them.

Carry on.


Humor me, answer it again, or give me one post where you did so and I will gladly look it up.
No I don't say people die from other stuff so forget it, that is just how you want to interpret it.
I ask if you hold a particular view on something and you say I'm making up your view.
You misrepresent what I say and pretend that I am just repeating myself when I correct you.
Of course I repeat myself and will do so till it gets through to you what I am actually saying.


< Message edited by BamaD -- 1/21/2015 8:12:22 AM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 441
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 8:18:49 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Actually, I came up with two -- address the design flaw, and investigate training effectiveness and re-evaluate. They were even discussed quite a bit on this thread. You only see what you want to see, and you don't even seem aware.

Meanwhile, you came up with essentially "People die from other stuff, so let's just forget the whole thing."

I've answered to "do you want to ban" question repeatedly in this thread alone.

If it's not a stock answer, you don't know what to say, so you repeat yourself.

You don't want to hear it. Fine. I get it. There are people like that, and you're one of them.

Carry on.


another question you never answered
You are guys who keep bringing up "well, it's already illegal to leave the loaded weapon unattended," but you've got no way to enforce it. So stop hiding behind that, and lets look at approaches that will actually help.



_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 442
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 8:23:09 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Check the FBI and CDC, you will find that this is true.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 443
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 9:22:28 AM   
ThirdWheelWanted


Posts: 391
Joined: 4/23/2014
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail
Answered, in more detailed earlier. Try to fire the gun with the slide disassembled. If you read the manual you will find it under the gun cleaning safety chapter.


If you take it apart, it's safe. While that's an accurate statement, it seems to be some rather convoluted logic.

I grabbed the manual for my Sig P229. No where does it call either of those safeties.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 444
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 9:57:21 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		tell you what...You go back and answer all my unanswered questions before I waste more time answering yours again.

My God...you deny being knee jerk, but all you ever focus on is the paranoia that everyone wants to ban guns and carry. The definition of knee jerk. And if you want to claim that you're not saying incidents like these aren't a problem because kids die by other means, maybe stop bringing it up incessantly.

That said, I've no problem with local governments deciding carry law case by case. Let the courts sort it out.


(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 445
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 9:58:05 AM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		Hmmmm. Should this lead one to investigate the meaning of the word, safety, as it is used in firearms?



_____________________________

Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to ThirdWheelWanted)
Profile   Post #: 446
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 11:30:57 AM   
Hillwilliam


Posts: 19394
Joined: 8/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Check the FBI and CDC, you will find that this is true.





Total military war deaths, well over 1.6 million (doesn't count civilian deaths which were significant in the Civil War)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_casualties_of_war

Firearm deaths including suicide and police shootings are about 32,000/ year (source CDC)

When I do the math, I wonder where the missing 10,000+ deaths/year went.


_____________________________

Kinkier than a cheap garden hose.

Whoever said "Religion is the opiate of the masses" never heard Right Wing talk radio.

Don't blame me, I voted for Gary Johnson.

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 447
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 11:35:04 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Don't know where they got their numbers, and I don't have a dog in this one.

But according to Politifact:

Since 1968, "more Americans have died from gunfire than died in … all the wars of this country's history." (True) We tallied about 1.4 million firearm deaths compared with 1.2 million in war. The number of gunfire deaths includes suicides.

Take up disagreements with them, not me -- I'm just passing along the link. Do what you want with it.

(in reply to Hillwilliam)
Profile   Post #: 448
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 11:42:55 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

tell you what...You go back and answer all my unanswered questions before I waste more time answering yours again.

My God...you deny being knee jerk, but all you ever focus on is the paranoia that everyone wants to ban guns and carry. The definition of knee jerk. And if you want to claim that you're not saying incidents like these aren't a problem because kids die by other means, maybe stop bringing it up incessantly.

That said, I've no problem with local governments deciding carry law case by case. Let the courts sort it out.



List the questions you don't accept my answers for.
I have answered them all but each time you go on a rant claiming that I have said things I didn't say.
And I have not said you want to ban guns, I have asked a question that you finally answered for the first time in this post.
You have however stated that while you consider a gun ban excessive you would "be ok" with it.
I have asked you questions about your stands, I have not proclaimed your stands for you but you consistently do that for me and anyone else who is pro second amendment.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 449
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 11:44:30 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 450
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 11:48:38 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



Here I am dying of not surprised.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 451
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 11:51:16 AM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



So as we have taken care of that specifically what law would you pass to keep someone from leaving a firearm unattended.
Keep in mind that local carry law said it was legal to carry in the woman's purse.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 452
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 11:59:23 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline

Tell yourself whatever you need.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 453
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 12:53:41 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery



Tell yourself whatever you need.

Everyone favors safe guns duh.
Everyone favors knowledgeable gun owners, again, duh.
Neither is the problem here. No doubt she knew better, if asked about leaving guns unattended. But how do you outlaw someone making a mistake or showing poor judgement. We already have laws making people responsible for such actions. Do they work all the time, no, would adding another law making it doubly illegal affect a persons judgement no.
What would change that? Only education.
Gun owners have an obligation, not to make firearms mysterious and hidden but, to educate their children about them and to make them something, like the stove, that you don't mess with. Don't tell me it can't be done because I have done it.
Public schools need to provide firearms safety training, just like they do drivers ed.
And we need to stop pretending that somehow everyone who owns firearms, and everyone who carries is somehow responsible for people who misuse them.
Most of this comes from people like you who, by your own admission, know virtually nothing about firearms.
This is a tragedy and if you have a good idea how to prevent it, without disrupting everyone's rights in the process (and I didn't say you wanted to) great. But you haven't done that. You want new safety measures on firearms but you have no idea what they would be. You want to "do something" about seeing to it that people can't show bad judgement but you don't say what it is.

< Message edited by BamaD -- 1/21/2015 12:55:10 PM >

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 454
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 12:57:50 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?

1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?1) I want a clear design flaw fixed
2) I want to take a look at effectiveness of training.

* yawn *

Maybe you just need even more repetition than you're getting in this thread?

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 455
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 1:03:37 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		I *can* tell you that if all gun owners were this moronic, I'd definitely say ban firearms.

Fortunately, you're not representative of the typical sensible gun owner.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 456
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 2:50:30 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

I *can* tell you that if all gun owners were this moronic, I'd definitely say ban firearms.

Fortunately, you're not representative of the typical sensible gun owner.

If those are all you want there is no argument.
Unfortunately you wasted page after page accusing me and others of things that simply were not in the least accurate. Your need to pretend that you are smarter and better than the rest of us has wasted ungodly amounts of time and effort.
Fixing flaws is of course desirable, training goes without saying, neither would have prevented this.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 457
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 2:56:12 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		1) I've said it repeatedly. Are you really this much of an asshat?

2) Nothing prevents everything. Mom's dead. She ain't coming back. But now that we know the problem, future events can be prevented. Not all, but some.


Are done being a dick now? What the fuck have you been arguing for pages if there's no problem?

Never mind. Just...go. Glad we're done.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 458
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 3:22:19 PM   
BamaD


Posts: 20687
Joined: 2/27/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

1) I've said it repeatedly. Are you really this much of an asshat?

2) Nothing prevents everything. Mom's dead. She ain't coming back. But now that we know the problem, future events can be prevented. Not all, but some.


Are done being a dick now? What the fuck have you been arguing for pages if there's no problem?

Never mind. Just...go. Glad we're done.

A Your suggestions wouldn't prevent another accident.
B You wouldn't know an asshat if you were staring into the mirror.

_____________________________

Government ranges from a necessary evil to an intolerable one. Thomas Paine

People don't believe they can defend themselves because they have guns, they have guns because they believe they can defend themselves.

(in reply to Musicmystery)
Profile   Post #: 459
RE: Another "successful" carry story - 1/21/2015 3:24:23 PM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
Status: offline 		Thanks for playing. We have some nice consolation prizes. See Vanna on your way out.

(in reply to BamaD)
Profile   Post #: 460
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