quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why is not the thread morbid enough for you? Do you not see how ridiculous you and tweak sound on this thread after the way you spewed your poor tortured soul bullshit on the previous murderers thread? It is hard not to laugh at the outlandishness and hypocrisy of it all.

If one murderer is nuts... why should not two...or three.

But... rant away my friend I made my point many posts ago... if you objected you should have posted then... for me it is over.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

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ORIGINAL: Politesub53

I see you were quick on the edit where you had stated you were just having fun. I am glad you finally cottoned on.

Check the time stamp... you did not read it before posting ...but yes I did change it... I see the error of my ways now and then.

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ORIGINAL: sheisreeds

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

igor I believe you and I agree here somewhat that if a radical Christian group based in the US were throwing acid in little girls faces or shooting them in the head....and or....invading a school and murdering helpless little boys and girls... and or...setting bombs in subways killing hundreds...and or...cutting off the heads of journalists....and or... placing bombs on airplanes.... and or... sending suicide bombers into family restaurants...and or... setting off road side bombs... and or...blowing up buildings with thousands of people....There would be a tremendous uproar of not only Christian leaders but Christians themselves. This radical group would receive no aid or indifference from fellow Christians and within days would be pointed out and destroyed or captured.

This is not happening in the Muslim world in my opinion... We are always talking of the tiny minority of Muslims that are radical... but what is also reality is there is but a tiny minority of Muslims willing to aggressively speak out and take action against the radicals among them.

Butch

Where was the outrage of Christians in the mid nineties when Westboro Baptist was openly advocating violence towards the GLBT? As a queer activist in the nineties I regular got hate mail from right wing Christians saying things along the lines that they prayed that I got raped. What made it even more obscene was that I was 15 at the time, and that was an easy to know fact. I was still on Westboro's list of website and queer advocates to attack.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Why is not the thread morbid enough for you? Do you not see how ridiculous you and tweak sound on this thread after the way you spewed your poor tortured soul bullshit on the previous murderers thread? It is hard not to laugh at the outlandishness and hypocrisy of it all.

If one murderer is nuts... why should not two...or three.

But... rant away my friend I made my point many posts ago... if you objected you should have posted then... for me it is over.

Butch

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ORIGINAL: epiphiny43

Shitty soldiers? Basically unorganized 'rag-tag' militia groups forced both the USSR and the USA to 'declare victory and go home' in Afghanistan? Both empires saw the writing on the wall and decided to stop the drain.
Conscript armies have folded before precision munitions and all the other advantages a truly modern fighting force brings to a well planned assault. Syrian Army groups have endured a bad supply situation and multiple opponents to survive and succeed far beyond most military observers expectations.

To be really fair, most Muslims live in societies that are seriously repressive and the majority keep their heads down on Any issue of consequence. Those with the ability and opportunity to emigrate don't suddenly become empowered to speak out by a greater society that usually is unhappy they are there.
On many issues the various Muslim groups and Third World people in general may actually agree with the grievances of the violent Jihadist and other radical fringe; they don't like the methods, the huge collateral damage or the excuse that gives reactionary forces to pursue their agendas. And hate being innocent victims of both sides to conflicts they see doing only harm to all.
No amount of press releases or public statements will have any effect on either the terrorists or the forces organizing against them so discretion if not realistic survival fears are how they react. As any parent normally does! Going on record that local groups who are using car bombs and AK47s to make their points are wrong and evil isn't doing your kids a favor?
The massive population of disaffected and largely unemployed youth in both the Muslim world and in the West are remarkably easy to radicalize with the lack of real options to change their world other ways. The constant work to increase wealth inequality by those in charge in both West and the authoritarian states elsewhere is as shortsighted as human conduct gets. Real progress is slow, largely invisible and difficult to see as creating anything better. Assault rifles and IEDs change things in seconds, education and building human economic and political relationships takes generations. The tensions within Islam are millennia old and the hatred and prejudices are often more a problem than between Islam and the West. It's a general cluster fuck and people holding out simple solutions are only self-identifying as Remarkably simple people.

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ORIGINAL: ThirdWheelWanted

quote:

ORIGINAL: sheisreeds

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

igor I believe you and I agree here somewhat that if a radical Christian group based in the US were throwing acid in little girls faces or shooting them in the head....and or....invading a school and murdering helpless little boys and girls... and or...setting bombs in subways killing hundreds...and or...cutting off the heads of journalists....and or... placing bombs on airplanes.... and or... sending suicide bombers into family restaurants...and or... setting off road side bombs... and or...blowing up buildings with thousands of people....There would be a tremendous uproar of not only Christian leaders but Christians themselves. This radical group would receive no aid or indifference from fellow Christians and within days would be pointed out and destroyed or captured.

This is not happening in the Muslim world in my opinion... We are always talking of the tiny minority of Muslims that are radical... but what is also reality is there is but a tiny minority of Muslims willing to aggressively speak out and take action against the radicals among them.

Butch

Where was the outrage of Christians in the mid nineties when Westboro Baptist was openly advocating violence towards the GLBT? As a queer activist in the nineties I regular got hate mail from right wing Christians saying things along the lines that they prayed that I got raped. What made it even more obscene was that I was 15 at the time, and that was an easy to know fact. I was still on Westboro's list of website and queer advocates to attack.

You realize you're equating getting hate E-mail with actual terrorist acts, right? While I realize that getting threatening messages at 15 must have been uncomfortable, it's really not quite the same as getting acid thrown in your face. Advocating violence isn't doing violence. 9/11 wouldn't have been the same if the terrorists had just been advocating flying planes into buildings and sending out nasty messages about it.

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ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

I read this from spiegel the other day, its from march of 2014
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/islamophobic-hate-groups-become-more-prominent-in-germany-a-956801.html



la monde had another one, on anti muslim attacks but I cant find the link now,dammit....

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

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ORIGINAL: LiveSpark

Savage, cowardly and despicable yes. But we don't know for sure they are extremist "muslims", they are masked with no identifiable features. While they may be extremists it could also be the work of people looking to make muslims look bad and fan the flames of hatred. Only time will tell when they are caught.

Just a coincidence that the newspaper that got shot up practiced free speech, and published cartoons critical of Islam then

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ORIGINAL: cloudboy

I just read about the hard time Cartoonists have in Turkey -- and in general about the censorship worries of authors around the world.

Islamic Extremists hate free speech.

This will probably accelerate the anti-immigration waves sweeping over Europe.

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

"Attempting to mediate relations between free people and Islam will not work. Islam either has to get on board with the whole freedom of speech thing or it cannot participate in pluralistic western democracies. It’s as simple as that.

"And the state authorities in Canada and the United Kingdom — some guy in Yorkshire was just arrested by police because he tossed a Koran in a toilet. (…)

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ORIGINAL: igor2003

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ORIGINAL: kdsub

Bama you will not find me among those that think just because millions of Muslims are peaceful this absolves them of all responsibility of these terrorists acts. I personally think Islam in general by its very nature and teachings breeds terrorism more so then other religions. But i will not blame the vast majority of Muslims for the specific acts of terrorists.

But what I believe, and will take the heat for, is my belief that peaceful Muslims do not do enough to stamp out radicals in their religion. Radicalism cannot exist on the scale it has manifested itself today without help, indifference and denial of responsibility by the leaders of the religion.

Butch

I agree that if more peace loving Muslims would speak out against the radicals it would help to keep the terrorist attacks under some degree of control. But Muslims living in the Middle East, and those that have immigrated from there have lived for many years knowing, or at least believing, that if they speak out against the radicals their lives, and the lives of their families will quite likely be targeted. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe that is why more of them don't speak out, and living with that kind of fear, I could understand their silence.

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

The problem is a very small, destructive minority and I'd love to hear a solution as to how these people are weeded out without damaging the interests of the 99.999% of muslims who live here by the laws of our land, otherwise it will be a case of mob rule with law abiding muslims being cast as 'the enemy within'.

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why is it up to outside powers to "weed them out" not just at your local level but internationally

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ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

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ORIGINAL: Sanity

Why is it up to outside powers to "weed them out" not just at your local level but internationally

At my local level, in England murderers and would-be murderers don't always give themselves up to justice, and so we have a police force and legal system charged with administering matters of murder (weeding them out). By extension, neither do we assume it is the reponsibility of some bloke down the street to apprehend or account for some other bloke three streets away, the religion to which these two blokes adhere is deemed to be irrelevant when passing judgement on the term 'aiding and abetting'.

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ORIGINAL: bounty44

something everyone misses when the discussion is primarily centered on extreme acts of violence is the notion that islam and western civilization are incompatible with each other.

Europe is already well on it's way to becoming West Saudi Arabia, and the USA is next.