RE: 12 dead in Paris

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PeonForHer -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 7:10:04 PM)
quote: I forgot to mention your condescending attitude. Right. This from the person who assumes that whatever I say, it just must be some variation of lefty limp wet-flannel 'oh we must be gentle with them' uselessness that he's seen on Fox News.

BamaD -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 7:11:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Most of these conversations are so sad, especially after the terrorist attack in France. The real fight should be against Islamic terrorism, but as usual the "focus" seems to be more about the typical left vs. right blame game. I think all hell could be breaking out all over the world. and these same factions will sit and rather argue over left vs. right viewpoints, than FIGHT against the enemy. Do you think the terrorists give a damn about "saving"/or "sparing" either those on the left or those on the right? WTF No I don't, they would be just as happy killing you, Lucy, Peon or me. Sorry I took the bait.

Marini -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 7:15:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Most of these conversations are so sad, especially after the terrorist attack in France. The real fight should be against Islamic terrorism, but as usual the "focus" seems to be more about the typical left vs. right blame game. I think all hell could be breaking out all over the world. and these same factions will sit and rather argue over left vs. right viewpoints, than FIGHT against the enemy. Do you think the terrorists give a damn about "saving"/or "sparing" either those on the left or those on the right? WTF No I don't, they would be just as happy killing you, Lucy, Peon or me. Sorry I took the bait. It's true, that's the fucking point. They will be as equally happy to kill those on the left and those on the right. So carry on, the left vs. right blame game.

LiveSpark -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 7:18:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic bloody idiot cant even read...or admit he cant It's a symptom of illiteracy to pretend to understand what they're reading.

Sanity -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 7:22:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: I forgot to mention your condescending attitude. Right. This from the person who assumes that whatever I say, it just must be some variation of lefty limp wet-flannel 'oh we must be gentle with them' uselessness that he's seen on Fox News. Hilarious how you attack the right habitually then complain that youre not thought of as a centrist

BamaD -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 7:41:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: Marini Most of these conversations are so sad, especially after the terrorist attack in France. The real fight should be against Islamic terrorism, but as usual the "focus" seems to be more about the typical left vs. right blame game. I think all hell could be breaking out all over the world. and these same factions will sit and rather argue over left vs. right viewpoints, than FIGHT against the enemy. Do you think the terrorists give a damn about "saving"/or "sparing" either those on the left or those on the right? WTF No I don't, they would be just as happy killing you, Lucy, Peon or me. Sorry I took the bait. It's true, that's the fucking point. They will be as equally happy to kill those on the left and those on the right. So carry on, the left vs. right blame game. I would much rather we stayed on point. It is the fault of neither that these people are vicious killers. And while I am fully aware that this doesn't apply to all, or even most Muslims the terrorists are a menace to western civilization, in fact to civilization as defined by any rational person.

Marini -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 8:30:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD I would much rather we stayed on point. It is the fault of neither that these people are vicious killers. And while I am fully aware that this doesn't apply to all, or even most Muslims the terrorists are a menace to western civilization, in fact to civilization as defined by any rational person. Good point actually, just making my comments.

lovmuffin -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 10:12:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery This part is certainly true: quote: but at the same time when some lunatic head-hackers open fire on you, you’ve just got to put up with it. Viva the NRA [sm=Groaner.gif] What a load of pure unadulterated crap. [sm=offtopic2.gif]

lovmuffin -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 10:20:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Politesub53 quote: Peon: Given that, yep, the terrorists and those on the extreme right who stand against them do have one, very crucial, aim in common: to get everyone else to see the world as they both do: as one mass population of 'right-thinking good people' against another mass population of 'wrong-thinking bad people'. QFT...... Kudos Peon Given that, yep, the terrorists and those on the extreme left who stand against them do have one, very crucial, aim in common: to get everyone else to see the world as they both do: as one mass population of left -thinking good people' against another mass population of 'wrong-thinking bad people'. There ya go guys, I fixed it for ya [8D] ETA: and fixed it for Lucy too [:D] ETAA: and for LiveSpark [;)]

lovmuffin -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 10:53:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer quote: ORIGINAL: BamaD quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer No, I said the 'extreme right'. Read it again. Sorry, of course you often seem to consider anyone to the right of Trotsky to be extreme. I'd only seem that way to someone who can't read, can't think, or both. Still, apology accepted. [:)] In all fairness, in the second part of your paragraph you wrote "right thinking good people". I read it as a dig against the right, extreme and otherwise. I can read though. Now ya gun-a tell me I need new glasses ?? [8D]

lovmuffin -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/7/2015 10:59:09 PM)
quote: PeonForHer Still, apology accepted. [:)] Take it back Bama [8D] Those guys are the illiterates who either can't read or comprehend what they wrote [8D]

Aibo -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/8/2015 12:24:04 AM)
The French police have done a great job, one of the murderers arrested already, and the two others identified. Some relatives that are suspected of having aided the men to carry out the attack also in custody. Comments and condolences: The comments and condolences of the world leaders are in and they reflect my own comments with talk of this being an attack on free speech, democracy and the right to spread information (some used freedom of the press). In related news: A Facebook group for Muslims in Sweden cheers 'The pigs got what they deserve' - then again, many Muslims reacted the same way after 9/11 so nothing new there. OFCM have deemed it a 'barbaric act' those are quite moderate, but that UOIF calls it a criminal act is a knee cap reaction - that organisation is in league with the Muslim Brotherhood.

tweakabelle -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/8/2015 2:13:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Marini 5 pages so far, of basically the same crap. I am still "waiting" on a plan of action. Oh! that will never happen, carry on. WTF In the aftermath of 9/11, we were told that Al Quada was evil personified. Now after much loss of life and treasure, AQ seems to be defeated as a credible fighting force except in a few local pockets such as Yemen or Somalia. In the void left by AQ's demise, a far more vicious outfit, IS has emerged and now we are told that IS is evil personified. We were told that we were engaged in a 'War against Terrorism' when really we were engaged in a 'War on an Idea/Islamist Ideology'. Military strategies such as that conducted against AQ may generate local successes but it is clear that the demise of one terrorist outfit simply leads to the emergence of a newer even worse group of thugs (eg IS). The long term utility of a purely military strategy must be questionable. Few of us have any real idea what success in the 'War on Terrorism/Islamist ideologies' might look like. The sheer impossibility of preventing all terrorist attacks against soft targets such as Charlie Hedbo, or deranged individuals or 'lone wolf' attackers is self evident. I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be trying - I am saying that we ought to have a clear idea of what it is we are seeking to achieve, a clear set of goals.

PeonForHer -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/8/2015 2:49:47 AM)
quote: In all fairness, in the second part of your paragraph you wrote "right thinking good people". I read it as a dig against the right, extreme and otherwise. I can read though. Now ya gun-a tell me I need new glasses ?? Yes, you need new glasses. Or to stop being brainless, or to stop bullshitting. I actually said: "Given that, yep, the terrorists and those on the extreme right who stand against them do have one, very crucial, aim in common: to get everyone else to see the world as they both do: as one mass population of 'right-thinking good people' against another mass population of 'wrong-thinking bad people'." It should be as clear as day from that I'm using 'right' not in the sense of 'right wing', but in the sense of 'correct'.

PeonForHer -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/8/2015 2:59:10 AM)
quote: Few of us have any real idea what success in the 'War on Terrorism/Islamist ideologies' might look like. The sheer impossibility of preventing all terrorist attacks against soft targets such as Charlie Hedbo, or deranged individuals or 'lone wolf' attackers is self evident. I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't be trying - I am saying that we ought to have a clear idea of what it is we are seeking to achieve, a clear set of goals. I agree. But we're up against millions of people for whom 'clarity' means 'keep it simple'. Me, I like to invoke that idea of 'surgical bombing' as a metaphor. You pick the exact target - the correct target, and nothing but that target - and hit it with exactly the right sort of 'bomb'. Anything else just makes things worse.

MariaB -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/8/2015 3:02:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DaddySatyr I'm sorry, Maria but I am having some real issues with this post. I don't think I'm understanding, maybe? No you aren't understanding my words and this is where the written word clearly can go horribly wrong. Let me try again because I clearly made a mess. Political cartoonists are a type of political activist that express their work through drawing. In France at least, that is seen as perfectly acceptable and so it should be, but when a cartoonist draws and publishes pictures of a naked Muhammad, that cartoonist and its editor know that they are going to upset the Muslim community. They are fully aware that Salaman Rushdi had a price on his head for writing "The Satanic Verses" and they are fully aware that those more radical Islamic people will be splitting blood when they see those cartoons. We, the French and the west are allowed to laugh at their drawings and we are allowed to be offended by them and that's fine. Radical Islam don't have the ability to laugh at themselves. They want blood from those of us who don't follow their faith and they especially want blood from those that mock or ridicule them through journalism. I already said, "In a free world we have the right to offend and the right to be offended. What we don't have is the right to kill the people who have offended us." France is part of that free world and they have every right to offend who they please without consequence. Muslims have tried to throw various gagging orders on this magazine but each time they have lost. The magazine goes on in all its glory and so it should. My other half writes some cutting edge stuff. He can do that in both France and the UK but he's aware that there could be reprisals and because of that there are certain countries he wouldn't visit. In other words, he knows the risks. Of course journalists should express themselves from both knowledge and the heart and thank goodness we live in a section of the world where we can do that but just as Rushdi knew the risks when he published his well written book, political journalists that disparage and condemn radical Islam on a weekly basis, do so knowing they could be on someone's hit list. The question is, should they stop because of the risk? my answer is, hell no. Victim blaming? I think these guys are fucking heroes. These men died in the name of freedom and they will all be remembered for that. Knowing the risks doesn't imply they deserved what they got!!. Knowing they were possible targets and continuing to write, draw and publish was their stance on our freedom of voice and even if I wasn't keen on some of the things they published, I'm their, standing right with them calling them "brave heroes".

MariaB -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/8/2015 3:18:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: igor2003 quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Bama you will not find me among those that think just because millions of Muslims are peaceful this absolves them of all responsibility of these terrorists acts. I personally think Islam in general by its very nature and teachings breeds terrorism more so then other religions. But i will not blame the vast majority of Muslims for the specific acts of terrorists. But what I believe, and will take the heat for, is my belief that peaceful Muslims do not do enough to stamp out radicals in their religion. Radicalism cannot exist on the scale it has manifested itself today without help, indifference and denial of responsibility by the leaders of the religion. Butch I agree that if more peace loving Muslims would speak out against the radicals it would help to keep the terrorist attacks under some degree of control. But Muslims living in the Middle East, and those that have immigrated from there have lived for many years knowing, or at least believing, that if they speak out against the radicals their lives, and the lives of their families will quite likely be targeted. Maybe I'm wrong, but I believe that is why more of them don't speak out, and living with that kind of fear, I could understand their silence. This is nonsense. Radical Islam is a tiny fraction of the Muslim world and many Muslim communities stand up and voice the good spirit of Islam to the masses, whilst condemning groups like IS. These people continually speak out in schools and mosques. I even saw a Muslim cleric giving a talk on the evils of IS at Speakers Corner recently and he had a big cheering audience. Muslims in the west or more likely to live in fear of reprisals from the west itself towards their communities. Prejudice towards Muslims as a whole is on the up. Mass media hype has been hugely damaging to these communities...and so it goes on.

lovmuffin -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/8/2015 3:46:23 AM)
quote: PeonForHer It should be as clear as day from that I'm using 'right' not in the sense of 'right wing', but in the sense of 'correct'. Ok, thanks for clearing that up but it wasn't exactly clear as day. The way it was written, assuming the reader was reading small text from his phone and didn't notice the phrases where 'right' and 'wrong' were contained in those tiny little apostrophes, or didn't notice for whatever reason, the reader could take the word "right" in either sense. Bedsides that, overall it's not difficult to infer that all you lefties on this forum think all the righties here are extreme. Why didn't ya just use 'correct' ?? Was it so all you extreme lefties could pile yer crap all over Bama ?? [8D]

PeonForHer -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/8/2015 3:51:50 AM)
quote: Bedsides that, overall it's not difficult to infer that all you lefties on this forum think all the righties here are extreme. True, in a way. But I think the problem, better stated, is that you righties much too easily jump to the conclusion that you're seen as extremists. quote: Why didn't ya just use 'correct' ?? Because 'wrong' is usually contrasted with 'right', not 'correct'.

lovmuffin -> RE: 12 dead in Paris (1/8/2015 4:00:25 AM)
quote: PeonForHer Because 'wrong' is usually contrasted with 'right', not 'correct'. Yeah I get that but then again knowing you it could have also been a pun. [8D]

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