RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy

RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (Full Version)

All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> Dungeon of Political and Religious Discussion

Message

Staleek -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 7:41:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tweakabelle So, whatever your views on Islam, please be seriously sceptical about those who posit a quote or two and claim it represents the essence of the religion. They are almost certainly going to be incorrect in their claims. If religious scholars whose life work has been the study and interpretation of Quranic texts cannot agree on the translations and interpretations of particular sections of the text what chance is there that someone with no training in the discipline and a strong ideological bias against Islam is going to get it right? Wow! Chapeau! A lot of wisdom here. Taking one or two sentences of an allegorical text then holding them up as an example of an entire culture and religion which has been continually changing over thousands of years is at best absurd and at worst dishonest.

PeonForHer -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 7:47:00 AM)
quote: In fairness, did you not say " It makes no sense to talk about 'the ideology' without referring to the people who (you) claim to hold that ideology, too. "? You said he was holding someone to an ideology, and he replied he was holding it to no one. Made sense to me... at least grammatically. Different sense of the word 'hold', it seems. But the problem remains as to whom we're talking about, here. As I think we've all generally agreed, it's useless to pick through the Koran in order to highlight this or that bloodthirsty, savage or otherwise nasty excerpt and claim that this determines what Islam is all about. It's not even of much use when we want to determine what Islamism - a different thing again - is all about. This is because no one's set of beliefs is reducible to one text or another. The issue boils down to this: if the subject under discussion is the loathsomeness of ISIS or the Saudi Arabian regime - that's one thing. But if we leave muddy the distinction between those two examples and that of, say, the Muslim bloke who runs my local corner shop, we're talking about nothing worthwhile at all.

Musicmystery -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 9:03:52 AM)
Yeah, at the end of the day, despite the xenophobia, Islam isn't the problem, even radical Islam isn't--it's militant radical Islam, complicated by global politics and a populace that prefers simplistic "answers" ridiculing anyone not rubber stamping their myopia.

Sanity -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 9:05:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboyThese spasms of terrorism cry out for a conversation among Muslims about faith and tolerance. Islamic reformers could point out that the Koran prescribes no punishment at all for blasphemers besides telling others to keep their distance from them. The holy book that decrees death for blasphemy is the Bible (Leviticus 24:16). I agree with the first part of this quote above, while I disagree with the second part. Muslims need to clean house. They need to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs among them and reform their primitive bloodthirsty ideology, but as I have proven above in post two of this thread the Koran does indeed call for the death of blasphemers (as well as for infidels btw) There isnt nearly enough reform occurring, and there isnt near enough outrage among Muslims against against Islamists whose ideal is to shed as much blood as possible in the name of Allah There are other ways the ideology needs to step into this century as well Womens rights, for example. Cruel and unusual punishment for lawbreakers... Human rights generally. I see a little bit of belated lip service here and there, but there is very little if any real corrective action taking place

Sanity -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 9:10:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Yeah, at the end of the day, despite the xenophobia, Islam isn't the problem, even radical Islam isn't--it's militant radical Islam, complicated by global politics and a populace that prefers simplistic "answers" ridiculing anyone not rubber stamping their myopia. Hence Aylee rightly calling you trolls out for your de facto support for child rapists etc

Staleek -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 9:14:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Muslims need to clean house. They need to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs among them and reform their primitive bloodthirsty ideology, but as I have proven above in post two of this thread the Koran does indeed call for the death of blasphemers (as well as for infidels btw) I assume you're going to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs who go on rampages with guns? The Christian thugs who attack abortion clinics? The CIA thugs who torture people etc? Holding a particular demographic responsible for a few people who happen to belong to that demographic is collective guilt, it's a very primitive and bloodthirsty ideology too.

Sanity -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 9:21:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek I assume you're going to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs who go on rampages with guns? The Christian thugs who attack abortion clinics? The CIA thugs who torture people etc? Holding a particular demographic responsible for a few people who happen to belong to that demographic is collective guilt, it's a very primitive and bloodthirsty ideology too. Check your sources, perhaps put down the New York Times Such things are crimes here in the West, and people are held accountable and such things are openly debated while the things I pointed out above are the opposite of crimes according to Islamic law They are called for by Islamic law And every day I see leftists trying to hold all conservatives and Christians (ahem) accountable for the actions of a few, very few, as well...

cloudboy -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 9:41:22 AM)
He loved the torture, Abu Ghraib, and the IRAQ invasion. He also has zero regret about Arming and training the Taliban, and galvanizing the Jihad movement in the 80s. Yesterday's freedom fighter is today's Terrorist. Back in the day, Saddam was our ally. There are actually too many dots to connect. Torture is a crime under the Geneva convention, but believe me, Sanity does not want to clean house there....

Musicmystery -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 9:49:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Yeah, at the end of the day, despite the xenophobia, Islam isn't the problem, even radical Islam isn't--it's militant radical Islam, complicated by global politics and a populace that prefers simplistic "answers" ridiculing anyone not rubber stamping their myopia. Hence Aylee rightly calling you trolls out for your de facto support for child rapists etc maybe try reading comprehension and logic courses at Your local Community College

Aylee -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 9:50:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboyThese spasms of terrorism cry out for a conversation among Muslims about faith and tolerance. Islamic reformers could point out that the Koran prescribes no punishment at all for blasphemers besides telling others to keep their distance from them. The holy book that decrees death for blasphemy is the Bible (Leviticus 24:16). I agree with the first part of this quote above, while I disagree with the second part. Muslims need to clean house. They need to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs among them and reform their primitive bloodthirsty ideology, but as I have proven above in post two of this thread the Koran does indeed call for the death of blasphemers (as well as for infidels btw) There isnt nearly enough reform occurring, and there isnt near enough outrage among Muslims against against Islamists whose ideal is to shed as much blood as possible in the name of Allah There are other ways the ideology needs to step into this century as well Womens rights, for example. Cruel and unusual punishment for lawbreakers... Human rights generally. I see a little bit of belated lip service here and there, but there is very little if any real corrective action taking place So maybe something like the. . I don't know. . . the enlightenment? That guy in Egypt seems to be thinking the same thing.

Musicmystery -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 9:51:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Muslims need to clean house. They need to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs among them and reform their primitive bloodthirsty ideology, but as I have proven above in post two of this thread the Koran does indeed call for the death of blasphemers (as well as for infidels btw) I assume you're going to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs who go on rampages with guns? The Christian thugs who attack abortion clinics? The CIA thugs who torture people etc? Holding a particular demographic responsible for a few people who happen to belong to that demographic is collective guilt, it's a very primitive and bloodthirsty ideology too. exactly

Aylee -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 10:05:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Except the ones persecuting the French Jews, of course. I mean, there IS a reason that Jews are fleeing France and all of Europe. Fleeing? France has the third largest Jewish population, after the US and Israel. Additionally, according to a 2005 poll made by the Pew Research Center, there is no evidence of any specific antisemitism in France, which, according to this poll, appears to be one of the least antisemitic countries in Europe,[58] though France has the world's third largest Jewish population.[1] France is the country that has the most favourable views of Jews in Europe (82%), next to the Netherlands, and the third country with the least unfavourable views (16%) next to the UK and the Netherlands. Between 2000 and 2009, 13,315 French Jews moved to Israel, or made aliyah, an increase compared to the previous decade (1990–1999 : 10,443) that was in the continuity of a similar increase since the 1970s.[64] A peak was reached during this period, in 2005 (2005: 2,951 Olim) but a significant proportion (between 20 and 30%) eventually came back to France. But that's out of 600,000 in the French Jewish community. Ahh that is so cute. In 2013 about 3,500 Jews left France. In 2014 about 7,000 Jews left France. They are estimating another 10k or this year will leave. Cute that you stopped the years in review when the exodus started.

Sanity -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 10:15:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy He loved the torture, Abu Ghraib, and the IRAQ invasion. He also has zero regret about Arming and training the Taliban, and galvanizing the Jihad movement in the 80s. Yesterday's freedom fighter is today's Terrorist. Back in the day, Saddam was our ally. There are actually too many dots to connect. Torture is a crime under the Geneva convention, but believe me, Sanity does not want to clean house there.... Grow up trollboy Its so much easier to argue against a straw man, sure. But this is an adult site, and you arent in kindergarten any more I hope

Sanity -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 10:17:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboyThese spasms of terrorism cry out for a conversation among Muslims about faith and tolerance. Islamic reformers could point out that the Koran prescribes no punishment at all for blasphemers besides telling others to keep their distance from them. The holy book that decrees death for blasphemy is the Bible (Leviticus 24:16). I agree with the first part of this quote above, while I disagree with the second part. Muslims need to clean house. They need to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs among them and reform their primitive bloodthirsty ideology, but as I have proven above in post two of this thread the Koran does indeed call for the death of blasphemers (as well as for infidels btw) There isnt nearly enough reform occurring, and there isnt near enough outrage among Muslims against against Islamists whose ideal is to shed as much blood as possible in the name of Allah There are other ways the ideology needs to step into this century as well Womens rights, for example. Cruel and unusual punishment for lawbreakers... Human rights generally. I see a little bit of belated lip service here and there, but there is very little if any real corrective action taking place So maybe something like the. . I don't know. . . the enlightenment? That guy in Egypt seems to be thinking the same thing. The one who was just imprisoned for having atheist beliefs?

Musicmystery -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 10:27:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Aylee Except the ones persecuting the French Jews, of course. I mean, there IS a reason that Jews are fleeing France and all of Europe. Fleeing? France has the third largest Jewish population, after the US and Israel. Additionally, according to a 2005 poll made by the Pew Research Center, there is no evidence of any specific antisemitism in France, which, according to this poll, appears to be one of the least antisemitic countries in Europe,[58] though France has the world's third largest Jewish population.[1] France is the country that has the most favourable views of Jews in Europe (82%), next to the Netherlands, and the third country with the least unfavourable views (16%) next to the UK and the Netherlands. Between 2000 and 2009, 13,315 French Jews moved to Israel, or made aliyah, an increase compared to the previous decade (1990–1999 : 10,443) that was in the continuity of a similar increase since the 1970s.[64] A peak was reached during this period, in 2005 (2005: 2,951 Olim) but a significant proportion (between 20 and 30%) eventually came back to France. But that's out of 600,000 in the French Jewish community. Ahh that is so cute. In 2013 about 3,500 Jews left France. In 2014 about 7,000 Jews left France. They are estimating another 10k or this year will leave. Cute that you stopped the years in review when the exodus started. Cute or not, little girl, it doesn't change the points above.

Staleek -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 10:51:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Staleek I assume you're going to take full responsibility for the murderous thugs who go on rampages with guns? The Christian thugs who attack abortion clinics? The CIA thugs who torture people etc? Holding a particular demographic responsible for a few people who happen to belong to that demographic is collective guilt, it's a very primitive and bloodthirsty ideology too. Check your sources, perhaps put down the New York Times Such things are crimes here in the West, and people are held accountable and such things are openly debated while the things I pointed out above are the opposite of crimes according to Islamic law They are called for by Islamic law And every day I see leftists trying to hold all conservatives and Christians (ahem) accountable for the actions of a few, very few, as well... Holy Mary mother of god where to begin? 1. No these things are not called for by Islamic law. 2. There were no "sources" for my rebuttal because it wasn't a point of fact but a point of reason. You want to hold people responsible for events they had no control over or knowledge of. You must be able to fathom how ridiculous that is if you just think about it... America had tortured people recently, does that mean that we can bring you to the international criminal court to answer for it? 3. There is no objective definition of what constitutes a crime when we are talking internationally. 4. No, 'leftists" aren't all just idiots who like to point the finger at others. Some people do, on the left and on the right.

Musicmystery -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 10:59:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Yeah, at the end of the day, despite the xenophobia, Islam isn't the problem, even radical Islam isn't--it's militant radical Islam, complicated by global politics and a populace that prefers simplistic "answers" ridiculing anyone not rubber stamping their myopia. Hence Aylee rightly calling you trolls out for your de facto support for child rapists etc Enter said simplistic populace. Similarly, Christianity (or religions X,Y,Z,etc) isn't the problem, even radical Christianity isn't (people get to hold views--probably a LOT of American would oppose a website like this one that openly accepts sexual slavery) -- it's militant radical Christianity, complicated by politics, that's problematic. Except to the simplistic faithful parrots.

Sanity -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 11:00:20 AM)
"Dam yooooo Matt Drudge!!!! [sm=anger.gif]" (Dont you just HATE a free press) quote: In May last year, authorities sentenced Badawi, 31, to 10 years in prison and 1,000 lashes after he used his liberal blog to criticise Saudi Arabia's powerful clerics. The Jiddah Criminal Court also ordered he pay a fine of 1 million Saudi riyals (£175,700)... ...Amnesty International said authorities delayed administering 50 lashings to Raif Badawi, set to take place today after midday prayers, because his wounds from last week's flogging had not yet healed properly and he would not be able to withstand another round. Said Boumedouha, Amnesty International’s Deputy Director for the Middle East and North Africa Programme said the postponement exposes the "utter brutality" of the punishment, and its "outrageous inhumanity." "The notion that Raif Badawi must be allowed to heal so that he can suffer this cruel punishment again and again is macabre and outrageous. Flogging should not be carried out under any circumstances," said Perfectly acceptable under Islamic law

Musicmystery -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 11:05:18 AM)
...and a good example why, in this country, we don't count views we disagree with as dangerous criminals we need to prosecute.

Sanity -> RE: Islam’s Problem With Blasphemy (1/16/2015 11:07:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Yeah, at the end of the day, despite the xenophobia, Islam isn't the problem, even radical Islam isn't--it's militant radical Islam, complicated by global politics and a populace that prefers simplistic "answers" ridiculing anyone not rubber stamping their myopia. Hence Aylee rightly calling you trolls out for your de facto support for child rapists etc Enter said simplistic populace. Similarly, Christianity (or religions X,Y,Z,etc) isn't the problem, even radical Christianity isn't (people get to hold views--probably a LOT of American would oppose a website like this one that openly accepts sexual slavery) -- it's militant radical Christianity, complicated by politics, that's problematic. Except to the simplistic faithful parrots. "militant radical Christianity'... Yeah... Always knocking on your door, and leaving a copy of "Watchtower Magazine"

Page: << < prev 5 6 [7] 8 9 next > >>

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.09375