quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

What semantic garbage.

It's protection from state religion that drove that part of the amendment. And that is very much freedom from religion, as well as freedom to practice your religion of choice.

Reminds me of the joke about "Did your parents let you choose your own career?" "Yup--they said I could be any kind of doctor I wanted to be."

So you can choose your religion, but you have to have one?

Doesn't sound like freedom.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hillwilliam

Why is the Right so afraid of Sharia Law?

It's in the fucking Bible.

Leviticus to be exact.

I realize that we have some posters who try to deflect and justify their Islamophobia (I'm not really comfortable getting on a plane with someone wearing a turban and carrying a Koran myself)

The problem is that most of the people who are Islamophobic tend to call themselves believers in God.
At least one reconciles their beliefs and fears by saying that "The New Testament is what really counts".

I disagree.
The Bible, according to God, is an all or nothing document.

Sharia Law is in the BIBLE.

Why are those who call themselves "Conservatives" so up in arms about it?

Bottom line.

If you are a Bible thumper, you should embrace Sharia Law, not fear it.

Discussion?

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

that's not even a right (as in correct) question. the "right" is not afraid of sharia law, the right rejects sharia law because, despite what some leftists might think to the contrary, we do not want to live in a theocratic state. Tell that to the preachers who wield so much influence in the Republican party sharia law is not compatible with the western ideals of civilization.

the irony here is that presumably youre a liberal Ever heard of a Goldwater Conservative? They believe in the constitution (ALL of it, not just amendment 2) and think the Government needs to stay the hell out of your personal business instead of running a religious nanny state and you don't understand what Islamic law means for all the causes you supposedly hold so dearI want religious maniacs ALL OF THEM to quit trying to run my life.

and "sharia" refers to Islamic---so no, sharia law is not in the bible.Read the book of Leviticus

last thing---I just posted this elsewhere: liberals seem to like to use the word phobia when it comes to anything they support, that conservatives reject. conservatives are not afraid or fearful of islam, they have examined it and have found it not compatible with the way they wish the country to be. it's not an irrational action or response, in fact, its just the opposite. its a studied and well-reasoned one.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

What semantic garbage.

It's protection from state religion that drove that part of the amendment. And that is very much freedom from religion, as well as freedom to practice your religion of choice.

Reminds me of the joke about "Did your parents let you choose your own career?" "Yup--they said I could be any kind of doctor I wanted to be."

So you can choose your religion, but you have to have one?

Doesn't sound like freedom.

No, the clause was to guard against the formation of a state religion, such as the Church of England, thus...at the time...gutting other religions in terms of their "place" in the life of the King's subjects.

There is nothing in the freedom of religion clause that states you must choose a religion. And while the existence...or not...of a God often occurs on these boards, again I don't see any of those who believe saying that those who don't..."must".

Nice twist, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

What semantic garbage.

It's protection from state religion that drove that part of the amendment. And that is very much freedom from religion, as well as freedom to practice your religion of choice.

Reminds me of the joke about "Did your parents let you choose your own career?" "Yup--they said I could be any kind of doctor I wanted to be."

So you can choose your religion, but you have to have one?

Doesn't sound like freedom.

No, the clause was to guard against the formation of a state religion, such as the Church of England, thus...at the time...gutting other religions in terms of their "place" in the life of the King's subjects.

There is nothing in the freedom of religion clause that states you must choose a religion. And while the existence...or not...of a God often occurs on these boards, again I don't see any of those who believe saying that those who don't..."must".

Nice twist, though.

Simply pointing out the absurdity that your semantics would imply.

So indeed, freedom from a state religion. And since the state is the origin of law in this country, that does indeed mean freedom from religion as well, should one choose.

To be clear, that doesn't mean freedom from being exposed to it, as some guarantee of secular experience either--merely that citizens are on their own there.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

No there aren't. There are those who feel government sponsored programs and buildings shouldn't eymbrace religious expression as too close to a religion of the state.

And look how many people in this forum alone insist the founders were Christians building a Christian nation. That's a dangerous place to go. The Islamophobia crap is one example. They are concerned not about a theocracy, but about *which* theocracy they want.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: bounty44

that's not even a right (as in correct) question. the "right" is not afraid of sharia law, the right rejects sharia law because, despite what some leftists might think to the contrary, we do not want to live in a theocratic state.

Some on the right do indeed want to live in a theocratic state, and global empire, and are working to create it.

And some on the left want to live in a socialist empire where there is no religion and are working to create it. (Though given that such states exist, still not sure why they don't move there).

These religious factions that are so hard at work to create a global Christendom and use the military to do so...if they're such a threat, why aren't they being covered on the news? Especially outlets like CNN or PBS or MSNBC? Oddly enough, their hands seem to be full with what terrorists from the Prophet's side are doing.

Given the diverse make-up of this country, how successful do you suppose either side is going to be?

No matter what anyone states, it is "freedom of religion", not "freedom FROM religion". Does that mean that a theocratic state is in place...or should be? No. Does that mean a state where no one has to deal with religious expression? No.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Pesky Constitution and all.

Now you know how the rest of us feel about the right to endanger everyone with ubiquitous firearms.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Pesky Constitution and all.

Now you know how the rest of us feel about the right to endanger everyone with ubiquitous firearms.

Again...nothing in the Constitution prohibits this personal expression in public buildings.

Hence, children can pray in school. The ACLU was able to force several schools to drop their bans on rosary beads, crosses and other religious items in school. It also stopped another school from forcing students to remove copies of the Ten commandments from their lockers

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Why would I be?

The manufactured fear about world Islam infiltrating or conquering the US to turn us to Sharia Law is (1) bullshit and (2) not likely for a few centuries at least.

A greater concern are the right wing factions that seek a global Christendom, and are happy to use the US military to accomplish that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Pesky Constitution and all.

Now you know how the rest of us feel about the right to endanger everyone with ubiquitous firearms.

Again...nothing in the Constitution prohibits this personal expression in public buildings.

Hence, children can pray in school. The ACLU was able to force several schools to drop their bans on rosary beads, crosses and other religious items in school. It also stopped another school from forcing students to remove copies of the Ten commandments from their lockers

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

You keep ascribing something to me that isn't true...that I want a change in the Constitution.

quote:

I don't. As I stated, I'm happy with the way it is written and what it allows. I don't want a state-sponsored religion.

quote:

I do relish it when those who want to ban even the expression of religion bring out their cries of "freedom from religion" and get shot down.

quote:

"Yesterday, I was clever, so I wanted to change the world.
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

You keep ascribing something to me that isn't true...that I want a change in the Constitution.

Nope. I don't. Not anywhere. See for yourself. That's you ascribing something to me that isn't true.

quote:

I don't. As I stated, I'm happy with the way it is written and what it allows. I don't want a state-sponsored religion.

Here we agree. It's morons pretending it says something different that I oppose.

quote:

I do relish it when those who want to ban even the expression of religion bring out their cries of "freedom from religion" and get shot down.

Which is -- no one at all. Total straw man.

There are those who oppose seeming religious condonement in government buildings/agencies. And while some of them may be on the edges, they do have a point. And rather than getting shot down, they generally win.

I roll my eyes at the bemoaning of anyone wishing someone a cheerful "Happy Holidays" as "they're taking our Christmas away" when it's just folks being thoughtfully inclusive. Personally, I'm happy to receive any cheerful well-wishing. And I see the points both ways--I've been the "logical" atheist, and I've experienced a spiritual awakening as well. Mainly, I just wasn't a dick about it on either side.

As Rumi put is so well (Gasp! Yes, a Sufi! Run! Moooslems!):

"Yesterday, I was clever, so I wanted to change the world.
Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."

Personally, I don't have trouble finding places and times for prayer or meditation. I doubt anyone else does either.


P.S. -- In a couple weeks, make sure you wish everyone a Happy Saint Valentine's Day, and be sure to berate anyone leaving out the bolded part with a lecture on what the First Amendment does and doesn't allow. [<--kidding]

quote:

Those who want to ban the wearing of religious items in public buildings, those who oppose posting copies of the Ten Commandments on personal lockers and notebook covers, those who want to stop someone from wearing a wristband in class that says "protect life" on it are those who you say don't exist.