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Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/18/2015 3:14:47 PM

vincentML

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The Judaization of Jerusalem . . . a short video bears witness. Driving the Arabs into the streets.

demolishing homes

Americans are in denial.

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/18/2015 3:20:28 PM

kdsub

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Vincent I doubt you will find many that agree with Israel's policy on settlements.

Butch

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/18/2015 3:41:19 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Vincent I doubt you will find many that agree with Israel's policy on settlements.

Butch

I am not so sure Butch. You dont hear too many on here speaking out about it. Those that do are labelled anti-Jewish.

All the time this goes on, there will be problems.

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/18/2015 3:56:09 PM

tweakabelle

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"Since 1967, about 27,000 Palestinian homes and other structures (livestock pens and fencing for example) crucial for a family’s livelihood, have been demolished in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), including East Jerusalem. It is impossible to know how many homes exactly because the Israeli authorities only report on the demolition of “structures,” which may be homes or may be other structures. When a seven-story apartment building is demolished containing more than 20 housing units, that is considered only one demolition. Some homes are as yet incomplete when they are demolished, but the financial loss to families (70% of the Palestinians live below the poverty line, on less than $2 a day), plus the inability to obtain decent and adequate housing, constitutes a fundamental violation of tens of thousands of people to shelter. "

See more at: http://www.icahd.org/no/faq#sthash.pz69tpHL.dpu

Is there any one left who still denies this constitutes ethnic cleansing?

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/18/2015 3:57:57 PM >

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/18/2015 4:03:48 PM

kdsub

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Vincent I doubt you will find many that agree with Israel's policy on settlements.

Butch

I am not so sure Butch. You dont hear too many on here speaking out about it. Those that do are labelled anti-Jewish.

All the time this goes on, there will be problems.

Could be... but I see many that support Israel in general but I do not remember any defending these settlements directly. Like everything else in this mess these settlements have reasons behind them...but they are dead wrong and it only makes a lasting settlement more difficult.

Butch

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/19/2015 7:20:12 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Vincent I doubt you will find many that agree with Israel's policy on settlements.

Butch

I am not so sure Butch. You dont hear too many on here speaking out about it. Those that do are labelled anti-Jewish.

All the time this goes on, there will be problems.

Could be... but I see many that support Israel in general but I do not remember any defending these settlements directly. Like everything else in this mess these settlements have reasons behind them...but they are dead wrong and it only makes a lasting settlement more difficult.

Butch

Butch, the settlements are explicit state policy for colonization. They are not occurring randomly. Palestinians are harassed, assigned outrageous fines for imagined offenses, and then given two hours to vacate their homes. Pretty much what the Reich did back in the day.

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/19/2015 7:23:39 AM

vincentML

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FR

An IDF veteran has second thoughts and wonders what he will tell his kids. A brief video. The effects on the Occupiers.

looking back on what he did

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/19/2015 7:47:53 AM

tweakabelle

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The explicit primary goal of the settlement/colonisation movement is to prevent the formation of a Palestinian State. The settlers/colonists have been very clear about this since Day 1, and are still explicit about it today. The irony of Israel and the US complaining about the Palestinians taking "unilateral steps" that "damage the peace process" appears lost on the Israelis and US - what could be more unilateral than the ethnic cleansing and colonisation of another people's land? What other actions have been more "damaging' to the now non-existent peace process, a process wrecked by Israeli intransigence, arrogance and greed (as even the US agrees!)?

The locations of the settlements were chosen with this goal driving them - so hilltop locations spread around Occupied Palestine were preferred, giving the colonies a clear military and strategic advantage. The only exception to this is the Jordan Valley, which contains Occupied Palestine's most fertile agricultural land and lies alongside the Jordan River, which the colonists hope will eventually form the eastern border of Israel. Israel's ruling Likud Party shares this goal, as is explicitly stated in its Constitution and re-stated on many occasions by Likud leader Netanyahoo.

One is forced to concede that the colonists appear to have effectively achieved their goal, as Israeli colonisation of Occupied Palestine has reached such levels that de-colonisation seems impossible without an internal Israeli civil war. Without de-colonisation, the prospect of an independent viable Palestinian State appear dim, to put it optimistically. It seems almost superfluous to remind ourselves that the colonisation process is a flagrant breach of the Geneva Conventions, in particular Article 49:
"The Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Geneva_Convention

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/19/2015 8:28:07 AM >

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/19/2015 1:31:33 PM

Aylee

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If the Jews would just march themselves into the sea. taking their Jewish trees with them, this could all be solved.

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/19/2015 2:21:02 PM

Sanity

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

If the Jews would just march themselves into the sea. taking their Jewish trees with them, this could all be solved.

Theyre so fucking stubborn that way

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/19/2015 3:43:09 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

If the Jews would just march themselves into the sea. taking their Jewish trees with them, this could all be solved.

No one has said that, but honest negotiation and keeping promises made in recent treatys would help.

Why are you okay with Israeli policies ?

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/19/2015 4:40:37 PM

Aylee

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“Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, vanquish the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one.”
- Ahmad Bahr, Palestinian Legislative Council acting speaker
(Sudan TV, April 13, 2007)

“The Prophet of Allah has promised us that the Jews will gather in Palestine, and that the Muslims will fight them, and totally kill them.”
- Muhammad Nimr al-Zaghmout, head of the Palestinian Islamic Council in Lebanon
(Al-Kawthar TV, May 15, 2007)

“By Allah, we will not be satisfied even if all the Jews are killed.”
- Dr. Walid Al-Rashudi, Department of Islamic Studies, King Saud University, Saudi Arabia
(Al-Aqsa TV, February 29, 2008)

“The treacherous Zionist enemy will never permit us to lessen our revenge towards him or stray from our confrontation against him, until he is wiped off this land, which is saturated with the blood of the martyrs.”
- Ahmad Dahbour, Palestinian Authority propagandist
(Jerusalem Post, March 23, 2008)

“Strike the interests of Jews and Americans, and all those who wield aggression against the Muslims. Today no one can say that we are battling the Jews in Palestine alone.”
- Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda leader
(Associated Press, March 24, 2008)

“The PLO... has not changed its platform even one iota... the Israeli ideology will collapse in its entirety, and we will begin to progress with our own ideology, Allah willing, and drive them out of all of Palestine.”
- Abbas Zaki, Palestinian Authority representative in Lebanon
(NBN TV, April 9, 2008)

“I am optimistic that within ten years, Israel will come to its end.”
- Riyad Nasan al-Agha, Syrian Minister of Culture
(Al-Hiwar TV, April 19, 2008)

“Now more than ever I tell you – we will never recognize Israel... We will form the Palestinian state on all of Palestine’s territories and the sun of liberty will burn the Zionists.”
- Mahmoud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza
(UPI, May 14, 2008)

Article 7 of the official Charter of Hamas quotes the Muslim prophet Mohammed: “The Final Hour will not come until Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims kill them, and until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, and a stone or tree would say: O Muslim, servant of Allah, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!” “The Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) looks forward to implementing Allah’s promise no matter how long it takes,” the same Charter says.

Also in 2012 Morsi prayed for the "Jews to be driven into the sea."

The eradication of Jews IS the goal.

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/19/2015 5:40:04 PM

luckyd0g

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SHHH Aylee,

Your not allowed to actually quote Palestinian leaders...

That's Islamaphobic!!!

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 12:39:26 AM

tweakabelle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

If the Jews would just march themselves into the sea. taking their Jewish trees with them, this could all be solved.

There's no need to indulge in silly racist hyperbole such as the above.

All that is required of Israel is (1) that it abides by international law and especially international humanitarian law ie that it respects the same rules that all other countries respect and (2) it enters into negotiations for a fair and just resolution of the conflict in good faith ie that it seeks a solution rather than using protracted negotiations as cover for expanding its colonies, its ethnic cleansing and apartheid, as it has been doing for decades now.

So no special rules, no exemptions, no capitulations, no histrionics - all that is needed is that Israel behaves like any other country, obeys the rules that all civilised countries must obey and genuinely seeks peace. Sadly the Israeli record is so abysmal that asking Israel to conduct itself like any civilised country feels like a big ask.

< Message edited by tweakabelle -- 1/20/2015 12:45:33 AM >

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 12:51:33 AM

crazyml

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Gosh, those are harsh words.

Can you think of anything that might have prompted them?

Can you imagine a situation where a politician might gain capital by saying something like that?

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 1:10:54 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Gosh, those are harsh words.

Can you think of anything that might have prompted them?

Can you imagine a situation where a politician might gain capital by saying something like that?

I suspect she was satirizing Tweakabelle's endlessly one-sided whining. Personally, I don't find much to recommend either side. But it has always been the case that some people will find pleasure in huffing and puffing and pointing the finger of blame. That's how these things get started, and that's what keeps them going.

K.

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 1:15:55 AM

DaddySatyr

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Gosh, those are harsh words.

Can you think of anything that might have prompted them?

Can you imagine a situation where a politician might gain capital by saying something like that?

I suspect she was satirizing Tweakabelle's endlessly one-sided whining. Personally, I don't find much to recommend either side. But it has always been the case that some people will find pleasure in huffing and puffing and pointing the finger of blame. That's how these things get started, and that's what keeps them going.

K.

Actually, I would view Aylee's quotes from all those politicians as being par for the course, concerning politicians ... you know: taking polls, counting numbers and making speeches filled with sound bytes that are going to reach as many of your audience as possible ... the "peaceful" Muslims.

Which brings us to: "How do these hate-slingers keep getting elected if what they say doesn't resonate with a majority of their voting public?"

Hmmmm ... we should ponder that. It'll come to me ...

Michael

(Red font indicates an edit)

< Message edited by DaddySatyr -- 1/20/2015 1:18:24 AM >

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 9:53:18 AM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

quote:

ORIGINAL: crazyml

Gosh, those are harsh words.

Can you think of anything that might have prompted them?

Can you imagine a situation where a politician might gain capital by saying something like that?

I suspect she was satirizing Tweakabelle's endlessly one-sided whining. Personally, I don't find much to recommend either side. But it has always been the case that some people will find pleasure in huffing and puffing and pointing the finger of blame. That's how these things get started, and that's what keeps them going.

K.

Hundreds of thousands of people are driven from their homes, hundreds of villages are destroyed by bulldozers, hundreds of thousands are imprisoned, often without charges, people are left to live in tents next to their bombed homes and then in winter their tents are bulldozed, and Kirata thinks there is only pleasure in pointing the finger of blame. Never mind the need for justice and humane treatment of innocent people. Insensitivity hardly describes your politics.

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 10:00:37 AM

Kirata

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quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

Hundreds of thousands of people are driven from their homes, hundreds of villages are destroyed by bulldozers, hundreds of thousands are imprisoned, often without charges, people are left to live in tents next to their bombed homes and then in winter their tents are bulldozed, and Kirata thinks there is only pleasure in pointing the finger of blame. Never mind the need for justice and humane treatment of innocent people. Insensitivity hardly describes your politics.

If they were rocketing and suicide-bombing my country, the "refugees" would be the lucky ones.

(Figure it out.)

K.

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RE: Demolishing Palestinians homes in Jersualem - 1/20/2015 10:11:00 AM

vincentML

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quote:

“Oh Allah, vanquish the Jews and their supporters. Oh Allah, vanquish the Americans and their supporters. Oh Allah, count their numbers, and kill them all, down to the very last one.”
- Ahmad Bahr, Palestinian Legislative Council acting speaker
(Sudan TV, April 13, 2007)

While on the other side:

Israel’s Orthodox Rabbis: ‘Palestinians to the Ovens!’

Back in the days of the Shoah, one of the slogans of the Jew haters was: “Jews to the Ovens.” Now, it causes me anguish to say, we have Israeli Orthodox rabbis saying the same about the Palestinians.

Thanks to Cicero for pointing me to a shocking passage in an Israeli Orthodox “family magazine,” Fountains of Salvation, which suggests that Israel will create death camps for Palestinians in order to wipe them out like Amalek. The article attacks Israeli rabbis who dispute the letter recently circulated from pro-settler extremist rabbis which urged that no Israeli Jew rent apartments or homes to Israeli Palestinians. It chided them for being “politically correct” and refusing to do their jobs and educate the populace in the true path of Torah (which is presumably to hate Palestinians).

SNIP

A few words of explanation. There is a Biblical command for Jews to wipe out Amalek because of the viciousness with which that people attacked Israelites. Essentially, this is a Jewish call to commit genocide against Amalek. We should note that the Bible records such Jewish campaigns against other tribes as well (Moabites, Jebusites) and no doubt others did the same to their enemies.

Rabbis throughout the ages have allegorized the reference to Amalek to connote any sworn enemy of the Jewish people from Hitler to Barack Obama (yes, prominent American Orthodox Jews wrote such garbage before the last election). But this is the first time I’ve ever read any Orthodox publication calling for committing genocide against Palestinians.

As Cicero pointed out to me, the articulation of this passage doesn’t only refer to Palestinians (though most likely this was specifically who the writer had in mind given the context). It can refer to any enemy of the Jewish people including you or me.

Israel, you have become Death, as predicted by Yeshayahu Leibowitz:

The Arabs would be the working people and the Jews the administrators, inspectors, officials, and police—mainly secret police. A state ruling a hostile population of 1.5 to 2 million foreigners would necessarily become a secret-police state, with all that this implies for education, free speech and democratic institutions. The corruption characteristic of every colonial regime would also prevail in the State of Israel. The administration would suppress Arab insurgency on the one hand and acquire Arab Quislings on the other. There is also good reason to fear that the Israel Defense Force, which has been until now a people’s army, would, as a result of being transformed into an army of occupation, degenerate, and its commanders, who will have become military governors, resemble their colleagues in other nations.[9]

***Even before the founding of the Israel, Leibowitz was an adamant supporter of a separation between religious institutions and the state - he even personally asked this of David Ben-Gurion. He became progressively critical of government policy following the military operation in Qibya. In his later philosophy he denied that the state of Israel had any Jewish religious significance and became an outspoken defender of the complete separation between religion and state.[8] He was among the first Israeli intellectuals to state immediately after the 1967 Six-Day War that if occupation resumed, this would lead to the decline in moral stature.

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