RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice?

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ExiledTyrant -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/30/2015 7:46:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins I've pondered what ET said about hate. I'm very similar in that I let very few people close to me for the same reason that when I give of myself, I give my all. I give 100% of me that fits that 'relationship'. with that you also get my utter loyalty, and utmost standards. I find that I don't get this back in return at all. as an online friend put it to me recently 'You were not cherished in return the way you gave, and deserved'. my ex playmate said that my standards are so high in what I give of myself as a friend that it makes others always look as though they are failing. I find though that I don't feel hate towards those that have wronged me. mostly there is nothing at all. within the instant that the act has occurred to cause the change of feeling in me, that's it, everything is gone, and actually I feel a calm in myself. continued acts from them may upset, anger, or down right enrage me for the time of the act, but still the over all feel is one of nothingness. there were time with my ex that given him tied up in a sound proof room, and no witness' I would have gladly beat the living daylights out of him for what he's done to me, and especially my son, but it still would only be rage driven, not hate. I haven't met anyone yet worth my hate. needles needles, I am right there with you. Once that first spike of hate starts to peak, I'm done, over, finished, and there is nothing in the world that will change it. Once my favor is lost, it is lost for good, I am loyal to the bone and it is hard to earn, hard to lose, and imposable to recover once it is lost. I push that spike of hate into the nothing for them, if they die I feel nothing, if they win a million dollars I feel nothing... they cease to exist to me. I prefer to feel nothing over anything negative, and "nothing" is devoid of negative. Jus sayin

FieryOpal -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/30/2015 8:03:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal The original meaning of the word "sacrifice" is to make sacred. An unwilling sacrifice is no sacrifice, just as begrudgingly offering one's submission...is not submission either. That is true, However, that is an old version of the word, not really in common use today, based on the discussion here, it seems. Although, if that were the case, it would make more sense. Our languages are replete with archaic root words and underlying meanings. How could they be otherwise? Even orgasms have been called "the small death" (le petit mort, by the French) in regenerative symbolism/symbology. I consider love to be sacred. I consider love-making to be a sacred act. Others can compartmentalize their sexually intimate relations, but I cannot. My expression of eroticism is as sacred a ritual as any religious or spiritual one. (I am reminded here of Nine Inch Nails' "Closer": You bring me closer to God.) Therefore, no noble sacrifice is too great, in my mind, to make for the ones we love or for those to whom we have sworn an allegiance of loyalty and devotion. Nor would I ask of another what I am not prepared to do myself in equivalent or correspondingly equal terms (equal but not necessarily the exact same). quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes Fiery, you are SUCH a cephalopod! I mean it as a compliment, hey! grins You don't know the half of it, with all the natural wildlife shows I've watched over the years. Marine biology is most fascinating. Not to mention, I almost married an entomologist! quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes Love is an addiction. Anything and everything can become an addiction of sorts. I was just telling a friend the other day that I don't follow horoscope forecasts because I've seen many people use astrology as a crutch, and I never wanted to not be able to rely upon my instincts and intuitive abilities apart from external factors. There are those who are slaves to their egos. Yes, this is especially true of D-types and vanilla leaders. Whether it turns into co-dependency or not is another set of complexities since now you have two people who cannot extricate themselves from one other. Often the one who appears to be less needy is the emotionally needier of the two.

GoddessManko -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/30/2015 8:18:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins I've pondered what ET said about hate. I'm very similar in that I let very few people close to me for the same reason that when I give of myself, I give my all. I give 100% of me that fits that 'relationship'. with that you also get my utter loyalty, and utmost standards. I find that I don't get this back in return at all. as an online friend put it to me recently 'You were not cherished in return the way you gave, and deserved'. my ex playmate said that my standards are so high in what I give of myself as a friend that it makes others always look as though they are failing. I find though that I don't feel hate towards those that have wronged me. mostly there is nothing at all. within the instant that the act has occurred to cause the change of feeling in me, that's it, everything is gone, and actually I feel a calm in myself. continued acts from them may upset, anger, or down right enrage me for the time of the act, but still the over all feel is one of nothingness. there were time with my ex that given him tied up in a sound proof room, and no witness' I would have gladly beat the living daylights out of him for what he's done to me, and especially my son, but it still would only be rage driven, not hate. I haven't met anyone yet worth my hate. needles needles, I am right there with you. Once that first spike of hate starts to peak, I'm done, over, finished, and there is nothing in the world that will change it. Once my favor is lost, it is lost for good, I am loyal to the bone and it is hard to earn, hard to lose, and imposable to recover once it is lost. I push that spike of hate into the nothing for them, if they die I feel nothing, if they win a million dollars I feel nothing... they cease to exist to me. I prefer to feel nothing over anything negative, and "nothing" is devoid of negative. Jus sayin Applauds Mostly why I can't be arsed with self ordained psychics. I'm good.

needlesandpins -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/30/2015 8:18:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins I've pondered what ET said about hate. I'm very similar in that I let very few people close to me for the same reason that when I give of myself, I give my all. I give 100% of me that fits that 'relationship'. with that you also get my utter loyalty, and utmost standards. I find that I don't get this back in return at all. as an online friend put it to me recently 'You were not cherished in return the way you gave, and deserved'. my ex playmate said that my standards are so high in what I give of myself as a friend that it makes others always look as though they are failing. I find though that I don't feel hate towards those that have wronged me. mostly there is nothing at all. within the instant that the act has occurred to cause the change of feeling in me, that's it, everything is gone, and actually I feel a calm in myself. continued acts from them may upset, anger, or down right enrage me for the time of the act, but still the over all feel is one of nothingness. there were time with my ex that given him tied up in a sound proof room, and no witness' I would have gladly beat the living daylights out of him for what he's done to me, and especially my son, but it still would only be rage driven, not hate. I haven't met anyone yet worth my hate. needles needles, I am right there with you. Once that first spike of hate starts to peak, I'm done, over, finished, and there is nothing in the world that will change it. Once my favor is lost, it is lost for good, I am loyal to the bone and it is hard to earn, hard to lose, and imposable to recover once it is lost. I push that spike of hate into the nothing for them, if they die I feel nothing, if they win a million dollars I feel nothing... they cease to exist to me. I prefer to feel nothing over anything negative, and "nothing" is devoid of negative. Jus sayin [sm=goodpost.gif] pretty much of the same cloth on this then [;)] needles

NookieNotes -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/30/2015 10:15:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes quote: ORIGINAL: FieryOpal The original meaning of the word "sacrifice" is to make sacred. An unwilling sacrifice is no sacrifice, just as begrudgingly offering one's submission...is not submission either. That is true, However, that is an old version of the word, not really in common use today, based on the discussion here, it seems. Although, if that were the case, it would make more sense. Our languages are replete with archaic root words and underlying meanings. How could they be otherwise? Even orgasms have been called "the small death" (le petit mort, by the French) in regenerative symbolism/symbology. I consider love to be sacred. I consider love-making to be a sacred act. Others can compartmentalize their sexually intimate relations, but I cannot. My expression of eroticism is as sacred a ritual as any religious or spiritual one. (I am reminded here of Nine Inch Nails' "Closer": You bring me closer to God.) Therefore, no noble sacrifice is too great, in my mind, to make for the ones we love or for those to whom we have sworn an allegiance of loyalty and devotion. Nor would I ask of another what I am not prepared to do myself in equivalent or correspondingly equal terms (equal but not necessarily the exact same). So, if I say that love, for me requires the sacred, or the deep feeling of intimacy that brings me closer to God (however he is perceived), that would be accurate. However, sacrifice in the sense of the negative, the way it is most commonly used today (virgins giving their lives for their God, bombers giving their lives for their religions, giving up something dear to me, etc), not so much. I do NOT believe that is required for love.

sexyred1 -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/30/2015 3:00:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins I've pondered what ET said about hate. I'm very similar in that I let very few people close to me for the same reason that when I give of myself, I give my all. I give 100% of me that fits that 'relationship'. with that you also get my utter loyalty, and utmost standards. I find that I don't get this back in return at all. as an online friend put it to me recently 'You were not cherished in return the way you gave, and deserved'. my ex playmate said that my standards are so high in what I give of myself as a friend that it makes others always look as though they are failing. I find though that I don't feel hate towards those that have wronged me. mostly there is nothing at all. within the instant that the act has occurred to cause the change of feeling in me, that's it, everything is gone, and actually I feel a calm in myself. continued acts from them may upset, anger, or down right enrage me for the time of the act, but still the over all feel is one of nothingness. there were time with my ex that given him tied up in a sound proof room, and no witness' I would have gladly beat the living daylights out of him for what he's done to me, and especially my son, but it still would only be rage driven, not hate. I haven't met anyone yet worth my hate. needles needles, I am right there with you. Once that first spike of hate starts to peak, I'm done, over, finished, and there is nothing in the world that will change it. Once my favor is lost, it is lost for good, I am loyal to the bone and it is hard to earn, hard to lose, and imposable to recover once it is lost. I push that spike of hate into the nothing for them, if they die I feel nothing, if they win a million dollars I feel nothing... they cease to exist to me. I prefer to feel nothing over anything negative, and "nothing" is devoid of negative. Jus sayin I wish I could feel this way. How do you feel nothing when you felt so much towards someone who ruined things between you?

GoddessManko -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/30/2015 3:37:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 I wish I could feel this way. How do you feel nothing when you felt so much towards someone who ruined things between you? Without closure, it's really hard. I'm not gonna pretend it's easy at all. Your sensitivity chip might be higher than ours and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I am not even really sure of the answer to that question except to say that if you don't let go, you're letting them win. Don't let them win, it's what they want. It took me a long time to realize just how petty, malicious and vindictive some people can be, especially when you let them get close to you. (Or dream of it). Thankfully not all people are that way. Don't let a past experience deter you from future happiness.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/30/2015 4:10:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 I wish I could feel this way. How do you feel nothing when you felt so much towards someone who ruined things between you? Self preservation. When someone wins my love, I give it with every fiber of my being... I breathe them, they are in my blood, my dreams, always on the forefront or at the very least the peripheral of my thoughts. Every action I take I consider them first... right on red, yep, I'm taking extra precautions because I wouldn't want to wound her through me being careless. When you deliver love on that level and have to withdraw from that person, you do mourn and grieve like HELL, but the only way for me to survive them, that love, that loss, is to purge them from memory... at least that is how it is for me. Jus sayin

Musicmystery -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/30/2015 7:50:51 PM)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAbY2cmEsS0

sexyred1 -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/30/2015 11:01:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko quote: ORIGINAL: sexyred1 I wish I could feel this way. How do you feel nothing when you felt so much towards someone who ruined things between you? Without closure, it's really hard. I'm not gonna pretend it's easy at all. Your sensitivity chip might be higher than ours and that's not necessarily a bad thing. I am not even really sure of the answer to that question except to say that if you don't let go, you're letting them win. Don't let them win, it's what they want. It took me a long time to realize just how petty, malicious and vindictive some people can be, especially when you let them get close to you. (Or dream of it). Thankfully not all people are that way. Don't let a past experience deter you from future happiness. I think you are right, lack,of the right kind of closure.its not over sensitivity, as this type of feeling after only happened with this relationship. But even that is too much to be expected from certain people. My do not give a fuck meter is steadily growing.....thankfully.

needlesandpins -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/31/2015 3:18:40 AM)
for me it has always been very simple. I have trust issues. I tell that person right from the start that I have trust issues, and I have to give them trust to do what we do to feel safe. I need truth from them to keep that trust, and to keep feeling safe. if they lie to me I can no longer trust them. without trust there is nothing else for me. if I give my most vulnerable self to someone, and trust them with that, but then they have so little thought, and respect for me that they can't even be honest with me (and I'm not talking little white lies here, but the big stuff that really matters), then they don't deserve me. I don't deserve for someone to lower me beyond my own self worth when I struggle with that all the time, and do everything possible to make sure I keep theirs as high as possible. I had some great realisations when I split from my ex. we'd been together for 16years, and one day at work all I wanted was a hug. I thought that I wanted that hug from him because I was so used to him being the person that I got all my emotional support from. He picked me up from work as we had some stuff to sort, and as he went to leave he hugged me (at this point he was still under the deluded impression that I was going to take him back). in that moment of him going to hug me I was grateful, but then something happened. he snuggled into my hair, and told me how much he missed me, and the smell of my hair. right in that moment I realised that I was over it, and that in fact I had just wanted contact. that hug could have come from anyone, but it made me so happy to realise that the empty I had felt from the day I'd thrown him out was real, and not just a passing thing. the second thing that happened was that he called at the house one day to pick up a trailer. there was a board under the jockey wheel, as he stepped on it and pulled back he slipped, and fell. before the split I would have been going out there to see if he was ok, but I just stood there watching through the window knowing he'd hurt himself, and thought 'meh'. I turned away, and got on with what I had been doing. there was just a void. Nothing at all. another thing too. I had never found my ex physically 'good looking'. it was a lot of other things that attracted me to him, but he wasn't exactly ugly. however, it was good not looking at him and having that twinge of 'aaawwww' because he's eye candy. I was always a little more worried that I would have that with my ex playmate as for me he was very much eye candy. as a playmate I had chose him on looks first, and the rest had cinched the deal. thankfully though the nature of what has caused me to put him in to the nothing has also made his eye candy status void [:D] needles

LiveSpark -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/31/2015 6:06:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins I wonder what others think of this? I had it said to me that it was my fault that a persons actions hurt me because they had told me they were a crappy person, it was my fault that I had feelings for them, so my fault those feelings were hurt. in any relationship at all should it be expected that a person is to have no feelings what-so-ever for a person, and can you really expect to give yourself a 'get out of jail free' card by saying that you are a shit person, therefore you'll hurt that person at some point, and if you do it's that person's fault because they chose to be in your life? or is it really just a given that actually if we have people in our lives then we do form some sort of attachment to them, and thus you have to take some responsibility for not hurting those people? needles IMO that's a load of bullshit. Telling someone in advance that they are a crappy person is simply an excuse for future behaviour. I don't think we have a choice who we do/don't love, it comes back to those pesky hormones. Again imo the person who ends up hurt is not in the least bit responsible for the way they are treated, that is solely the decision of the person who hurts others. The only thing that I believe is the "fault" of the one who is hurt is choosing - yes CHOOSING to stay with the one who hurts them.

LiveSpark -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/31/2015 6:12:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant The water is muddy here because "love" it is not one size fits all. It is a multifaceted creature with varying degrees and intensity. Some people are more capable than others, some are more expressive, and some have a twinge of attachment and that is the best they can do. Some people are more faceted than others, some are more intense, and some just make you wonder everyday if you have any significance to them at all or if you are just a blip on their radar until better comes along. You've taken a topic and condensed it into a single serving and that is why it looks like Pandora's box opened and going crazy. Facets of love apply to how we love our mate(s), love our siblings (which is usually different with each sibling), how we love our parents, our children, our pets, our neighbor, etc. The intensity and degree varies with each and every facet. Some people do not have facets, for them it is a coin; I love them, I love them not. The expression of love varies with each person, the intensity, and to what degree your love for them will take you. Everyone in my life that I have love for receives 100% love from me, however the intensity and the degree varies. There is a very, very, very short list of people that will ever know 100% love from me, 100% intensity, and a 100% degree of "I can and will do anything within my power for them". I love very intensely and it is mirrored by my ability to hate... I love to the bone and hate to the marrow. It is a double edged sword, I just cannot have one without the other. Because I have such an intense passion for love and hate equally, I do not allow many people into my life. Because my capacity to hate is as intense as my capacity to love, those people that fuck up with me get shut out of my life completely, forever, for good, gone and done. I loath the feeling of hatred as much as love that feeling of love... I want to keep that love around me and do not ever want to feel that hate. For my own well being I shut people out of my life for good once they have deemed themselves unworthy. "Sacrifice" is going to be all about subjectivity and semantics, it all boils down to the "choices" you make, cuz really, you're not sacrificing, you are choosing. Jus sayin That is just so very well said ET. Bravo [sm=applause.gif]

DesFIP -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/31/2015 9:20:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark IMO that's a load of bullshit. Telling someone in advance that they are a crappy person is simply an excuse for future behaviour. I don't think we have a choice who we do/don't love, it comes back to those pesky hormones. Again imo the person who ends up hurt is not in the least bit responsible for the way they are treated, that is solely the decision of the person who hurts others. The only thing that I believe is the "fault" of the one who is hurt is choosing - yes CHOOSING to stay with the one who hurts them. Sorry, I disagree. If I can assess that someone is a liar, a cheat, unworthy of respect, then I'm not going to stay around to see if that chemistry will turn into anything. If I can choose to eat a chicken salad over a half gallon of ice cream, then I can choose not to get involved with someone who I know is not a good person. And that includes accepting their own self evaluations. If they tell me that they're a creep, why should I give them a chance to be a creep to me also? Saying my hormones forced me not to make a healthy decision is bs. My brain is in control.

needlesandpins -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/31/2015 10:09:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark IMO that's a load of bullshit. Telling someone in advance that they are a crappy person is simply an excuse for future behaviour. I don't think we have a choice who we do/don't love, it comes back to those pesky hormones. Again imo the person who ends up hurt is not in the least bit responsible for the way they are treated, that is solely the decision of the person who hurts others. The only thing that I believe is the "fault" of the one who is hurt is choosing - yes CHOOSING to stay with the one who hurts them. Sorry, I disagree. If I can assess that someone is a liar, a cheat, unworthy of respect, then I'm not going to stay around to see if that chemistry will turn into anything. If I can choose to eat a chicken salad over a half gallon of ice cream, then I can choose not to get involved with someone who I know is not a good person. And that includes accepting their own self evaluations. If they tell me that they're a creep, why should I give them a chance to be a creep to me also? Saying my hormones forced me not to make a healthy decision is bs. My brain is in control. What if you are already there? it still stands that sometimes you give people a chance, and it still stands that some people need to grow the fuck up, and take responsibility for being cunts instead of blaming other people for being hurt. It's true that if you stay after repeated times then you are a fool to yourself, and should accept responsibility for that, but it doesn't that the person wasn't a charmer to start with eh? let's face it, I doubt that every woman in a domestic abuse situation had the guy say to her right from the start 'btw, there are going to be time where I'm going to beat the crap out of you because I'm an arsehole.' needles

LiveSpark -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/31/2015 10:21:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: needlesandpins quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP quote: ORIGINAL: LiveSpark IMO that's a load of bullshit. Telling someone in advance that they are a crappy person is simply an excuse for future behaviour. I don't think we have a choice who we do/don't love, it comes back to those pesky hormones. Again imo the person who ends up hurt is not in the least bit responsible for the way they are treated, that is solely the decision of the person who hurts others. The only thing that I believe is the "fault" of the one who is hurt is choosing - yes CHOOSING to stay with the one who hurts them. Sorry, I disagree. If I can assess that someone is a liar, a cheat, unworthy of respect, then I'm not going to stay around to see if that chemistry will turn into anything. If I can choose to eat a chicken salad over a half gallon of ice cream, then I can choose not to get involved with someone who I know is not a good person. And that includes accepting their own self evaluations. If they tell me that they're a creep, why should I give them a chance to be a creep to me also? Saying my hormones forced me not to make a healthy decision is bs. My brain is in control. What if you are already there? it still stands that sometimes you give people a chance, and it still stands that some people need to grow the fuck up, and take responsibility for being cunts instead of blaming other people for being hurt. It's true that if you stay after repeated times then you are a fool to yourself, and should accept responsibility for that, but it doesn't that the person wasn't a charmer to start with eh? let's face it, I doubt that every woman in a domestic abuse situation had the guy say to her right from the start 'btw, there are going to be time where I'm going to beat the crap out of you because I'm an arsehole.' needles Exactly. It's one thing if the person says that right the second the two meet but what if the person has already fallen. It's not so easy to just turn emotions off so I stand by what I said.

IrishMist -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/31/2015 11:47:05 AM)
~General reply~ I debated about responding to this thread. My views on the word 'love' and what it means are pretty well off the mark with how others view it. As the word is used here, to describe an emotion that one person feels for another...I don't believe in 'love'. The word itself is overused, and over abused. The emotion that a person feels for another; that all consuming, gut wrenching, mind numbing, spine tingling emotion...I don't believe there is a word powerful enough to describe it. I do believe, however, that when you feel that for another...then yes, you do sacrifice. You are willing to do almost anything, just to hold on to that feeling, and the person who inspires it within you.

DesFIP -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/31/2015 12:10:46 PM)
I don't think people are good people until three months in when they suddenly say that they're bad and the scales magically fall off your eyes. If they really are bad people, then why didn't you see any signs?

LiveSpark -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/31/2015 12:19:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP I don't think people are good people until three months in when they suddenly say that they're bad and the scales magically fall off your eyes. If they really are bad people, then why didn't you see any signs? Really? So you've never encountered people who were on their best behaviour until they were secure in the relationship then let their true self show. Lucky you.

GoddessManko -> RE: Does Love Require Sacrifice? (1/31/2015 12:23:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: IrishMist ~General reply~ I debated about responding to this thread. My views on the word 'love' and what it means are pretty well off the mark with how others view it. As the word is used here, to describe an emotion that one person feels for another...I don't believe in 'love'. The word itself is overused, and over abused. The emotion that a person feels for another; that all consuming, gut wrenching, mind numbing, spine tingling emotion...I don't believe there is a word powerful enough to describe it. I do believe, however, that when you feel that for another...then yes, you do sacrifice. You are willing to do almost anything, just to hold on to that feeling, and the person who inspires it within you. That's the thing. I can identify with that feeling. Even when I think of that time, I do not even know who he is. Was he the man I met? Was he the man I left? I do not know. There was no closure, but sometimes you don't even get that courtesy or the answer to questions of why. Sometimes no matter how new, powerful and amazing that feeling is, the only choice you have is to let it go. Am I bitter? No. I feel I have grown as a person because of that experience. And I'm better off without him.

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