RE: Advertising Women

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NookieNotes -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 4:06:40 AM)
~FR~ I think this is a fascinating thread, and have a lot of thoughts, but not sure how much I feel like writing. YES, this is an issue. Yes, there are outliers, men who get neurotic about self-image, and women who don't care. But, overall, this is a big deal. cloudboy, you have the option to give your daughter so much more. My mother did to me. She gave me an unshakeable confidence that whether I was beautiful (or not), smart (or not), athletic (or not), I was me, and that was a good thing, because I would do what I wanted to do, the way I wanted to do it, and if that didn't work, I would pick myself up and try again. Yes, it's a long message, but it worked. That is exactly who I am. I do enjoy makeup and girly things a few times a month (if that), because I know what they can do for my overall visage, but otherwise, I don't use ANY beauty products 9 days out of 10, and I feel like my body is better for it. My mother only used the 70s version of bare minerals, so she set a good example. Same with alcohol and drugs (not only a girl thing, but a good example). I was educated, given a choice, and also told it was perfectly fine to NOT imbibe. My mother had only been drunk once in her life. My parents both were moderate in what they did and set a good example. I have never been drunk, nor tried any drugs or even cigs (they did smoke, and told me they regretted it). To me, parenting done right (take this for what it is, someone who has experienced parenting but not given it) is a lot like a liberal arts education. Parents should not teach children what to think, but HOW to think. Once that is solidly put in place, advertisements mean so much less. Good luck, and congratulations!

kallisto -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 5:00:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes To me, parenting done right (take this for what it is, someone who has experienced parenting but not given it) is a lot like a liberal arts education. Parents should not teach children what to think, but HOW to think. Once that is solidly put in place, advertisements mean so much less. I think you hit the nail square on the head. The greatest thing I've heard from my (now grown) kids is when they've told me thank you for teaching them how to think for themselves.

MercTech -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 9:27:45 AM)
You know that the interest trackers are watching you when all you get are adverts for goods and services you have already purchased. A bit scary how well they do.

GoddessManko -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 9:52:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech You know that the interest trackers are watching you when all you get are adverts for goods and services you have already purchased. A bit scary how well they do. Ah yes, us net geeks call that "residual marketing". It is pretty nifty of an idea and quite effective. Most tracking done on the internet is for consumerism, not security.

MercTech -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 10:44:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: GoddessManko quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech You know that the interest trackers are watching you when all you get are adverts for goods and services you have already purchased. A bit scary how well they do. Ah yes, us net geeks call that "residual marketing". It is pretty nifty of an idea and quite effective. Most tracking done on the internet is for consumerism, not security. It does get tiring though. I'm tired of Amazon sending me emails about good deals on durable goods I've purchased. How many televisions to I need, for example. And I'm not going to buy an emergency tire inflator a month after I bought one. Hmm, how to code an algorithm to spot accessories for an item purchased instead of offering more variations of the same item....

MercTech -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 10:46:14 AM)
... did a spot check with my girl... checking the spam catcher. It seems I get more advertisements for breast enhancements and she gets more advertisements for "herbal viagra". Sometimes you just point and giggle...

GoddessManko -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 10:49:35 AM)
Hahaha, if it is your email then it is email marketing. Residual marketing is more visiting a site, leaving it without purchasing anything and suddenly that site's banner is chasing you down everywhere... The cookies the site placed on your computer allows that site to target you in that fashion to remind you to come back and shop. Email marketing is usually done through email lists and done to turn people on to "sales items". But agreed, they show me I spend more on a phone than I should have, had I waited a week and I'm peeved, LOL.

AAkasha -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 12:34:33 PM)
Seriously, do we need parenting 101? I don't have kids or WANT kids. I am, however, an awesome aunt. The solution here: Get an ad blocker that is locked down tight. No more ads when your daughter is on the computer. Second: Make sure she has realistic female role models IN PERSON if it is not her mother. An aunt, older friend, etc. They have MUCH more of an impact on her than an overprotective or perceivable anal dad, in which case she may just rebel. It's not rocket science. Pay attention and be involved and don't get bent when there are things you CANNOT do or control in the development of a young woman - instead, put the right kind of women in her life.

PeonForHer -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 1:46:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AAkasha Seriously, do we need parenting 101? I don't have kids or WANT kids. I am, however, an awesome aunt. The solution here: Get an ad blocker that is locked down tight. No more ads when your daughter is on the computer. Second: Make sure she has realistic female role models IN PERSON if it is not her mother. An aunt, older friend, etc. They have MUCH more of an impact on her than an overprotective or perceivable anal dad, in which case she may just rebel. It's not rocket science. Pay attention and be involved and don't get bent when there are things you CANNOT do or control in the development of a young woman - instead, put the right kind of women in her life. [ramble] I think if I were to have a daughter I'd pretty much accept that I might do the best that I could, but I'd still be on the 'losing side' in this. Daughter X will go around seeing this stuff on billboards in the street, on adverts on the TV; in the newspapers, upfront on the newstands on the front pages ... and in every women's magazine where you might be forgiven for believing that you'd find some actual support. (God, those women's magazines appal me. Page after page of radical views about skinny models and their effects on young girls - accompanied by page after page of adverts with skinny models in them. And at the end, just when a woman's finished leafing through the magazine and feeling suitably ugly, fat and worthless - that's where 'salvatation' can be found in the shape of expensive make up, perfumes and even more expensive surgery. Those magazines are just designed to bash women, though they do it by first preening, stroking and generally seducing them greasily into the sucker punch. Disgusting, cynical, exploitative tat.) It's funny, really: all the stuff that I picked up as abstract theory over the years and never thought much about regarding females and females' experience of the world - that becomes suddenly real, just when you have your first daughter (or, in my case, and maybe a bit less so, when you have your first niece). You want to protect this girl, but there's no person who immediately presents himself to be given a punch. Not a nice feeling. [/ramble]

slvemike4u -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 1:46:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kallisto quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes To me, parenting done right (take this for what it is, someone who has experienced parenting but not given it) is a lot like a liberal arts education. Parents should not teach children what to think, but HOW to think. Once that is solidly put in place, advertisements mean so much less. I think you hit the nail square on the head. The greatest thing I've heard from my (now grown) kids is when they've told me thank you for teaching them how to think for themselves. For someone who has never been a parent that came out beautifully.....I taught my son to never except one version of any "truth" but rather to take any given situation ,turn it ,twist it,look at it from angles. That and to always,always take a moment to walk in "the other guys" shoes before forming an opinion rather than passing judgement. It worked out well from where I sit as a parent,and apparently well for him.The next time that young man gives me cause to worry or fret will be the first. Friends and relatives like to tell me I got "lucky" with him,I smile and thank them...but I know it wasn't luck,it was parenting and communicating .

GoddessManko -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 2:19:50 PM)
I think people make too much out of the "pretty girl" pictures kids are bombarded by, and less about the "bae" and the cussing and telling teachers off that is middle school. It's a war zone! And you can't shield them from it. You have to teach them how to handle it. They hear about the porn sites and the everything, and it's better if they understand the context of these things than to pretend it's not there. I hope people are aware that kids are more influenced by their peers than by some random billboard. Everything is a "crisis" for a 13 year old, LOL. "My friend is having a crisis!" And you just sort of roll your eyes but you listen and try to talk "on their level." I think communication and being open is important. They will have crushes and it should be OK for them to talk about it. They should never feel insecure or abnormal and a bit of dysfunctional and embarrassing weirdness gives them a sense of humor. My seven year old nephew is already talking about getting a Facebook and rolling his eyes at me like I'm the "uncool adult" when I ask about his minecraft he's obsessed with at the moment. Pretty much if the kids in your family can talk to you, you're doing everything right. Ask questions, all the time. And celebrity worship to me is no big deal if they identify with the wholesome types. Trying to be cute or look pretty shouldn't be an issue and girls should be reminded everyday how pretty they are, you say it enough they respond "I know" and bat their eyes at you. Even if others say otherwise. I never felt insecure because I was the smart girl even when I was the ugly girl, now that I'm pretty I'm still the smart girl, being pretty is a perk. And I like it, I love being feminine and strong, it's neat. It was weird having a guy who picked on me in school hit on me on facebook though, LOL. [:D]

Tidsel -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 2:46:22 PM)
[/quote] is there fundamentally anything wrong with buying make-up or coloring your hair? Or buying cologne or aftershave? Or whatever is sold through these sorts of ads? I would say "no", so long as it isn't done to try to attain a certain standard, or to fit a stereotype. [/quote] Why else would it be done?

PeonForHer -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 2:56:44 PM)
quote: I hope people are aware that kids are more influenced by their peers than by some random billboard. I don't think so, GM. The mouthy kids are influenced by the billboards, then they pass it on to their quiet and timid peers. That's more like it.

Tidsel -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 3:01:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: littleladybug Your original question asked whether the consumer culture "warps the female mind". From my experience, it doesn't have to. Dye your hair. Whiten your teeth. Slim. Do gym. Make your breasts bigger/smaller. Fat sucking of the stomach. Up your buttocks. Operate the lips of the vagina. Bleach your bum hole. Put on make up. Operate your nose. Use tons of cream. Face lift. Fat suck your thighs. Inject your lips. When the 'beauty industry cannot get any more out of you, there are always the psychologists and psychiatrists.

Tidsel -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 3:07:05 PM)
quote: PeonForHer [ramble] I think if I were to have a daughter I'd pretty much accept that I might do the best that I could, but I'd still be on the 'losing side' in this. Daughter X will go around seeing this stuff on billboards in the street, on adverts on the TV; in the newspapers, upfront on the newstands on the front pages ... and in every women's magazine where you might be forgiven for believing that you'd find some actual support. (God, those women's magazines appal me. Page after page of radical views about skinny models and their effects on young girls - accompanied by page after page of adverts with skinny models in them. And at the end, just when a woman's finished leafing through the magazine and feeling suitably ugly, fat and worthless - that's where 'salvatation' can be found in the shape of expensive make up, perfumes and even more expensive surgery. Those magazines are just designed to bash women, though they do it by first preening, stroking and generally seducing them greasily into the sucker punch. Disgusting, cynical, exploitative tat.) It's funny, really: all the stuff that I picked up as abstract theory over the years and never thought much about regarding females and females' experience of the world - that becomes suddenly real, just when you have your first daughter (or, in my case, and maybe a bit less so, when you have your first niece). You want to protect this girl, but there's no person who immediately presents himself to be given a punch. Not a nice feeling. [/ramble] You said it.

RemoteUser -> RE: Advertising Women (2/7/2015 6:43:35 PM)
OP, unless you want to go all Grizzly Adams and drag the fam into bear country, chances are, the advertising is never going to go away. The US government (and Canadian, a fair number of the ones in Europe too) are very consenting to how they allow marketers to prey on people as a resource. (And half the time, no one knows who's the top and who's the bottom in the arrangement of bedfellows.) The best place to devote your energies is towards the ones you want to protect, and the best way to do that is to teach them what the score is and how to see marketing for what it is. My own little guy is constantly bombarded with imagery of guns, violence, male supremacy, and that's just from television and video games. I've made a point of teaching him what commercials are really saying, and how to look at something to see what it's really worth. He's more rational than macho, which (for a 10 year old boy) is nothing short of amazing these days. [8D] You have the right views, imparting them is the best thing you can do, so your daughter can think for herself when she grows up. Best of luck with that. Parenting is terrifying, and very rewarding. [Edited for typing errors, thank you, OCD.]

cloudboy -> RE: Advertising Women (2/8/2015 4:07:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer (God, those women's magazines appal me. Page after page of radical views about skinny models and their effects on young girls - accompanied by page after page of adverts with skinny models in them. And at the end, just when a woman's finished leafing through the magazine and feeling suitably ugly, fat and worthless - that's where 'salvatation' can be found in the shape of expensive make up, perfumes and even more expensive surgery. Those magazines are just designed to bash women, though they do it by first preening, stroking and generally seducing them greasily into the sucker punch. Disgusting, cynical, exploitative tat.) It's funny, really: all the stuff that I picked up as abstract theory over the years and never thought much about regarding females and females' experience of the world - that becomes suddenly real, just when you have your first daughter (or, in my case, and maybe a bit less so, when you have your first niece). You want to protect this girl, but there's no person who immediately presents himself to be given a punch. Not a nice feeling. [/ramble] That is dead on empathetic with what I'm saying. Not that I can or want to dictate responses -- but I was more looking for (1) acknowledgment of the huge woman's industry that affects how women think about themselves and (2) what your own experience has been with it. My sense is that woman are mostly desensitized to it and hence (here at least) say it's not a big deal. A guy as described above ^^^ can actually be quite sensitive (because he's looking at it with fresh eyes) to it while also knowing such forces are not and have not ever been so systemically directed at him. Anyway PEON, you described my own experience almost exactly.

NookieNotes -> RE: Advertising Women (2/9/2015 3:18:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cloudboy quote: ORIGINAL: PeonForHer (God, those women's magazines appal me. Page after page of radical views about skinny models and their effects on young girls - accompanied by page after page of adverts with skinny models in them. And at the end, just when a woman's finished leafing through the magazine and feeling suitably ugly, fat and worthless - that's where 'salvatation' can be found in the shape of expensive make up, perfumes and even more expensive surgery. Those magazines are just designed to bash women, though they do it by first preening, stroking and generally seducing them greasily into the sucker punch. Disgusting, cynical, exploitative tat.) It's funny, really: all the stuff that I picked up as abstract theory over the years and never thought much about regarding females and females' experience of the world - that becomes suddenly real, just when you have your first daughter (or, in my case, and maybe a bit less so, when you have your first niece). You want to protect this girl, but there's no person who immediately presents himself to be given a punch. Not a nice feeling. [/ramble] That is dead on empathetic with what I'm saying. Not that I can or want to dictate responses -- but I was more looking for (1) acknowledgment of the huge woman's industry that affects how women think about themselves and (2) what your own experience has been with it. My sense is that woman are mostly desensitized to it and hence (here at least) say it's not a big deal. A guy as described above ^^^ can actually be quite sensitive (because he's looking at it with fresh eyes) to it while also knowing such forces are not and have not ever been so systemically directed at him. Anyway PEON, you described my own experience almost exactly. So, people often ask me my nationality. I say, "I don't know." They ask how can that be, appalled. I respond, " My mother was stranger raped, and she was adopted." All of a sudden, they are sorry for me and concerned that I don't know who I am. I have lived with it my whole life, and I'm cool with it. I'm still exactly who I was before they knew that little tidbit. I still enjoy my life as much as I always have. cloudboy, you are appalled, because all of this is just dawning on you. The women have lived with it our whole lives, and we have learned to handle it. It is a part of our growing-up culture. Yes, some women become looks-obessed and anorexic and so on. More than men. And yet, many do not. It is the way of the world that *generally* women are more focused on their own looks than men are. Period. That is part of why there are so many advertisements like that aimed at females, because women respond to them better than men do. So, you can be appalled all you want. It doesn't change what we're saying to you. quote: (1) acknowledgment of the huge woman's industry that affects how women think about themselves How women think about themselves affects the huge women's industry more than it affects us. quote: (2) what your own experience has been with it. As many of us have said, our experience is that we find our own comfort zone, and it works for us. It seems to me that you are simply overreacting to something you are unfamiliar with and have newly discovered. Like how Raleigh, NC reacts to snow, versus Buffalo, NY. Or American children drinking on their 21st birthday versus German kids of the same age with alcohol.

satanscharmer -> RE: Advertising Women (2/9/2015 6:37:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NookieNotes How women think about themselves affects the huge women's industry more than it affects us. Absolutely. Women have their own idea of what beauty is. Products are created to profit from those ideas.

GoddessManko -> RE: Advertising Women (2/9/2015 6:41:48 AM)
I am so confused...LOL. Maybe I'm just weird. My wanting nice hair, skin and teeth and to look and smell nice and be in shape and take care of myself is a total ME ME ME thing. But who knows, maybe other people are affected by blah blah blah... I'm not downplaying people's thoughts, I just have no idea where this is all coming from or what it means. If the teenagers start flipping out about how they look it's because someone in their school "said something" typically rather than a billboard or ad. Yes, they want the nice clothes and all that but to impress their friends, right? Honestly I think wearing tight fitting clothes and being scantily clad makes me less approachable but I just don't care. I like feeling sexy and if the women in my gym have a problem with that, tough cookies. It's better than being the girl in the cashmere sweater who's blowing every guy in the school. (Been there!)

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