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RE: -= John Norman (Gor) on love, consensual slavery, G... - 2/9/2015 7:14:20 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

What if kindness, love and understanding were what was given to "force" these people into slavery?

Planet Gor certainly does not use kindness, love and understanding to force those earth women into slavery.

But if someone earns someone slave-like devotion through kindness, love and understanding, I would say, that's exactly the definition of what consensual anything is.

Take away slavery. What is consensual sex?

Surely a man must win a female approval for consensual sex through kindness, love and understanding, and not go all evil shit on her and force her to have sex.

(in reply to SinFix)
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RE: -= John Norman (Gor) on love, consensual slavery, G... - 2/9/2015 7:17:11 AM   
SinFix


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Status: offline 		This thread isn't quite about Gor though.. but more about the fluidity of what Gor, bdsm, love and other things are about and how we view it all coming together.

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RE: -= John Norman (Gor) on love, consensual slavery, G... - 2/9/2015 7:18:05 AM   
Greta75


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SinFix

This thread isn't quite about Gor though.. but more about the fluidity of what Gor, bdsm, love and other things are about and how we view it all coming together.


Which is exactly what I said, that Gor belongs in a sub group under bdsm, as Gor on Earth has to adhere to consensual slavery of earth laws.

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RE: -= John Norman (Gor) on love, consensual slavery, G... - 2/9/2015 8:30:35 AM   
ResidentSadist


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From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greta75

Gor is real non-consensual slavery, especially in the imaginary Planet Gor.

I like to think BDSM is about consensual slavery.

Gor on earth has no choice but to be based on consensual slavery since they are bound by earth laws.

So Gor on earth fits best under BDSM category.

The thing is, if this was 200 short years ago, I would be OK non-consensual slavery.

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RE: -= John Norman (Gor) on love, consensual slavery, G... - 2/9/2015 9:56:02 AM   
UnholyBear


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I think a lot of people also forget that society was way different back when the Gor books were written. I know many of us who primarily identify as kinksters in the world of BDSM overlook that point. I do seriously have to wonder if the Gor books were written in the past 10 years, how different the concepts, writing style would be vastly different to what they currently are? Specifically the first 10 books. Whether or not he had a very negative outlook on females, I have no idea yet even looking at the first few books and the time period they were written: society's values and regarding women was very restrictive thus I can see how that could influence the style and theme of the books.

Maybe by today's standards of what constitutes good writing from bad, yet when I done a search of his literary works, he wrote 33 Gor books, produced a separate science fiction series, the Telnarian Histories (4 books), 3 novels,
a short-story collections (Norman Invasions (2009) and 5 non fiction writings. I may not have enjoyed the Gor books based on the fact that my tastes in sci/fi books is limited to other writers and that is a matter of personal taste. Otherwise for a writer to have produced the numer of books as he has, I do admire his writing ability.


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RE: -= John Norman (Gor) on love, consensual slavery, G... - 2/9/2015 9:57:58 AM   
IrishMist


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Joined: 11/17/2005
Status: offline 		~Direct reply to the OP~
I have not read Imaginative Sex, so I really can not say if it is about kink or not.
I have read all the Gor books, and I do agree with you in that they are not about kink.

Once again, though, we have come across a difference of interpretation over what BDSM stands for lol. I take a very literal view; Bondage, Dominance, Sado/Masochism. In my view, BDSM is nothing more than kink. So yes, I do agree that BDSM is not, and has nothing to do with being Gorean; but that some Gorean's DO utilize kink.

quote:

I think Norman's comments about how love and M/s can intertwine

Before I throw my two cents in, I need to point out that I do follow the Gorean philosophy of natural order. It has always struck a chord within me, so it is something that I accept and live by. I am fortunate to have been with two separate men who share my views on this.
Love, in my thinking, has no place within a M/s relationship (and please note that I said IN MY THINKING) I believe that love blurs the lines, on both sides of the kneel. It could simply be that because I am such a hard core masochist, that I don't believe that if he 'loves' me, he can provide what I need in that area. Or it could be that I am just so fucked in the head, that I refuse to believe it. Either way, I don't want or need love from Dave. Mutual respect, and an understanding of each other are all that is required.
Because we do understand each other, punishment has no place in our relationship. We agreed early on; failure on my part to follow his lead, leads to an ending of the relationship. Failure on his part to understand where he can push me, and by how much, leads to the ending of the relationship.
No discussion, no second chances.

The introduction of 'love' into such a structured relationship...would blur the lines and cause both of us to fail.

A harsh way of looking at things; but, it works for us. He keeps me balanced and serene; and I keep him focused.

quote:

If something is not beautiful, it is not Gorean

I agree with this.
Of course, once again, we could argue differing definitions of what 'beautiful' is.
If I use it to describe Gorean; I would have to say 'beautiful is a woman graceful and serene in her acceptance of her enslavement'
It's not about looks; but about attitude.

Kind of a ramble...but there's my useless two cents.

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RE: -= John Norman (Gor) on love, consensual slavery, G... - 2/9/2015 12:09:30 PM   
DesFIP


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Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		He got tenure at Queens College before anyone knew about his soft porn fiction, had there been a way to pull his tenure it would have been. He must be in his late 80s by now. And I doubt is still teaching.



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