RE: Three Muslims shot

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mnottertail -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 8:57:49 AM)
And that is where that stands, no more, no less. We have the same problem with christians here, McVeigh, Hausner, Kohl, Whitman, Bales.....

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 8:58:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail And the Jews stop at that time as well, old testament, all that, old chap. I know a few Jews and even a few in the US (Jax, FL) and although they follow much of the hebrew scriptures and very devout, they still integrate into the 21st century and live like most 'normal' people do. Islamics don't. They pick the bits from our modern society that suits them (the free handouts and free education etc), but other than that, they live in the 4th century and only pay lip-service to our western laws. They still believe in FGM, women as chattel, slaves, and world domination. The muslim victims in this thread were only paying lip service to western laws??? or are you talking about the "rest of them" [sm=axe.gif] I didn't reference those in this thread particularly. Sorry LL, like focal said in post#282, the newborn and raised locally tend not to have such extreme views and are more than willing and able to integrate into our western culture and contribute to it. An awful lot of their parents and forebears and recent immigrants don't share that PoV and do indeed only pay lip-service to our laws. They don't integrate very well (probably because of the conflict between the Islamic faith and our culture) and many even refuse to learn the language of their host nation. They still firmly believe in the 'eye-for-an-eye' revenge, honour killings, death for blasphemy or for being gay... You only need a handful of such close-knit families in one area/locality and you have a home-grown Jihadist cell right in the middle of us just waiting for the right moment to cause havoc. We have seen more and more of this since 9/11 and 7/7 - Charlie Edbo is just one more recent example. We have also seen (in the last couple of years), extremist groups causing more and more unrest with their activities in countries where there is a western influence. Boku Haram with their kidnapping and now forcefully occupying areas. IS with their 'caliphate' and spreading quicker than bineweed and thistles. Many muslims/islamics secretly support the actions of these extremists. Sad, but true. However, that doesn't excuse some stupid asshat from murdering innocent muslims in cold blood. For that, he should hang.

MercTech -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 9:09:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail How much Islamic terrorism was there 50 or even 100 years ago? I believe there was a great deal more than western 'influence' that is the basis for this crap. . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide Within the 50-100 years I think. Of course, calling things "terrorism" is in vogue today. The definition of "terrorism" has been changed to where it would have included most of the union organization movements of the 1930s and the civil rights activists of the 1960s. (RE: compare the dictionary definition of "terrorism" and the definition on the Homeland Security or FBI websites.) Going farther back, they didn't call it genocide or terrorism but simply jihad.. WAR http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_and_war I'm reminded of what a Suni acquaintance of my college days once said, "Back home, if you are not part of my family, my tribe, my religion, or my country; anything I do to you is acceptable under the law. That is a common thought there." There is a huge cultural difference that is difficult to overcome.

mnottertail -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 9:12:22 AM)
And the Christian Nazis and so on, yes. Rwanda. Uganda. Haiti. Fair misses the point.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 9:27:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech I'm reminded of what a Suni acquaintance of my college days once said, "Back home, if you are not part of my family, my tribe, my religion, or my country; anything I do to you is acceptable under the law. That is a common thought there." There is a huge cultural difference that is difficult to overcome. Your Sunni friend is quite right. Shia's think along those same lines too. I don't think that the many differences can be overcome. They are sooo diametrically opposed that they are opposite ends of the spectrum with no middle ground at all. To legitimately follow one path is to shun or hide the other. The west believe in free speech, including that of religion. For Islamics, blasphemy of any sort is punishable by death. In fact, Islam states that if you don't belong, you should be killed as an infidel. The west (generally) have accepted gays and lesbians and even afforded a legal partnership in law. Islamics believe they should be killed. There is no room for such people in the faith. The west believe in equality between the sexes (whether they actually get it equally is another matter). Islamics believe that women are chattel and should not be afforded the same lifestyle or opportunities as menfolk. In the west, faith laws/rules are second to national laws.... usually. Islamics hold that the faith IS the law and should be obeyed before any other laws.

Lucylastic -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 9:32:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic we have had those discussions ad nauseam, try sticking the topic at hand which is muslim victims, by an american ugly murdering pig The "random people" Barack was referring to were Jews, shot up by Muslims Which that runs counter to your short-sighted assertion, and therefore follows the topic you were posting in regard to perfectly lets back to the topic.......innocent muslims shot in your own country by a american. stop deflecting.

BamaD -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 9:33:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: MercTech I'm reminded of what a Suni acquaintance of my college days once said, "Back home, if you are not part of my family, my tribe, my religion, or my country; anything I do to you is acceptable under the law. That is a common thought there." There is a huge cultural difference that is difficult to overcome. Your Sunni friend is quite right. Shia's think along those same lines too. I don't think that the many differences can be overcome. They are sooo diametrically opposed that they are opposite ends of the spectrum with no middle ground at all. To legitimately follow one path is to shun or hide the other. The west believe in free speech, including that of religion. For Islamics, blasphemy of any sort is punishable by death. In fact, Islam states that if you don't belong, you should be killed as an infidel. The west (generally) have accepted gays and lesbians and even afforded a legal partnership in law. Islamics believe they should be killed. There is no room for such people in the faith. The west believe in equality between the sexes (whether they actually get it equally is another matter). Islamics believe that women are chattel and should not be afforded the same lifestyle or opportunities as menfolk. In the west, faith laws/rules are second to national laws.... usually. Islamics hold that the faith IS the law and should be obeyed before any other laws. But as you said this does not justify the murder in question.

Sanity -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 10:45:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic we have had those discussions ad nauseam, try sticking the topic at hand which is muslim victims, by an american ugly murdering pig The "random people" Barack was referring to were Jews, shot up by Muslims Which that runs counter to your short-sighted assertion, and therefore follows the topic you were posting in regard to perfectly lets back to the topic.......innocent muslims shot in your own country by a american. stop deflecting. Again, what I posted was perfectly in line with what you posted. If you dont want something discussed then dont bring it up. For you to complain about a supposed derail that you yourself begat is just more tiresome nonsense on your part

Zonie63 -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 11:04:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Interesting article on the shooter from the NY times http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/us/chapel-hill-neighbors-say-they-felt-threatened-by-man-held-in-killings.html ... theres more .. Further on in that article, I saw something that struck me as interesting: quote: Cynthia Hurley, who said she was married to Mr. Hicks years ago, said she had been unsettled by his enthusiasm for a 1993 film, “Falling Down,” which depicts a man violently lashing out at society. “That always freaked me out,” Ms. Hurley told The A.P. “He watched it incessantly. He thought it was hilarious. He had no compassion at all.” I remember that movie, although it did have some disturbing scenes and imagery. I would consider this another red flag about this guy, since one can never be too sure about those who seem to get really "in" to this movie. I didn't think it was a terrible movie, and my sense is that it was intended to be thought provoking and complex. But when viewed by the more deranged and simple-minded, it seems to come out entirely different. Even Michael Douglas' character didn't even understand that he was the bad guy.

Sanity -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 11:15:37 AM)
Perhaps we need a system wherein bureaucrats decide who can watch what movies when Or we could just ban movies that have mature themes? /sarcasm

Zonie63 -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 11:21:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Perhaps we need a system wherein bureaucrats decide who can watch what movies when Or we could just ban movies that have mature themes? /sarcasm No, I was not suggesting anything like that at all.

BamaD -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 11:26:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zonie63 quote: ORIGINAL: Lucylastic Interesting article on the shooter from the NY times http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/13/us/chapel-hill-neighbors-say-they-felt-threatened-by-man-held-in-killings.html ... theres more .. Further on in that article, I saw something that struck me as interesting: quote: Cynthia Hurley, who said she was married to Mr. Hicks years ago, said she had been unsettled by his enthusiasm for a 1993 film, “Falling Down,” which depicts a man violently lashing out at society. “That always freaked me out,” Ms. Hurley told The A.P. “He watched it incessantly. He thought it was hilarious. He had no compassion at all.” I remember that movie, although it did have some disturbing scenes and imagery. I would consider this another red flag about this guy, since one can never be too sure about those who seem to get really "in" to this movie. I didn't think it was a terrible movie, and my sense is that it was intended to be thought provoking and complex. But when viewed by the more deranged and simple-minded, it seems to come out entirely different. Even Michael Douglas' character didn't even understand that he was the bad guy. I think it was a dumb movie, and that anyone fixated on it might well have problems (both from a mental and a taste perspective). It should be noted that an ex-wife might not be inclined to view her ex in the best possible light. Personally I think he was a radical atheist and a bully.

kdsub -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 11:30:47 AM)
But But But..wait... you are condemning all 350 million Americans for the actions of a fewwwwwwwwwww.... Sorry could not help myself...[:D] Butch

Sanity -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 11:45:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub But But But..wait... you are condemning all 350 million Americans for the actions of a fewwwwwwwwwww.... Sorry could not help myself...[:D] Butch Didnt you know, or havent you heard Its okay when America-hating leftists do it, Butch Commendable even [;)]

bounty44 -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 11:52:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail And that is where that stands, no more, no less. We have the same problem with christians here, McVeigh, Hausner, Kohl, Whitman, Bales..... Since no one else is calling you on this absolutely incredible piece of leftist propaganda/revisionist history/wishful thinking, I’ll give it a shot: “In his letter, McVeigh said he was an agnostic but that he would "improvise, adapt and overcome", if it turned out there was an afterlife. "If I'm going to hell," he wrote, "I'm gonna have a lot of company." “Note the above that McVeigh “said he was an agnostic” but not only that, but that he was defiant about hell itself and remain unrepentant. Then we also find the same statement that he was an agnostic admitted by Lou Michel during a cyber interview with CNN. Lou Michel spent hours interviewing McVeigh in writing a book titled, “American Terrorist: Timothy McVeigh and the Oklahoma City Bombing”. Michel’s words are enlightening: “Lou Michel: McVeigh is agnostic. He doesn't believe in God, but he won't rule out the possibility. I asked him, ‘What if there is a heaven and hell?’ “He said that once he crosses over the line from life to death, if there is something on the other side, he will -- and this is using his military jargon – ‘adapt, improvise, and overcome.’ Death to him is all part of the adventure.”” those are not the beliefs or words of a Christian. http://www.tektonics.org/guest/mcveigh.htm here are two articles that discuss a some history and background of dale hausner. There is no mention in either of them as to faith, worldviews, or christianity. Nor are there comments from a pastor or any spokesman from a church he might have gone to. What’s more, an internet search for his name coupled with “Christian” or “not a Christian” gives no hits. The two are not linked in any way. http://www.ifpinc.com/Rage%20of%20the%20Random%20Actor%20-%20Live%20Addendum/Chapter%2003/Dale%20Hausner%20-%20A%20history%20of%20grief,%20a%20record%20of%20anger.htm http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/Dale_Hausner_and_Samuel_Dieteman as to Robert Bales---the only linking of him to christianity seems to come from this fellow named Gordon duff who, on his website, claimed bales was a christian. Here’s what the anti-defamation league has to say about duff: “Gordon Duff is an anti-Semitic conspiracist whose innocuous-sounding Web site, Veterans Today, features anti-Israel and Holocaust denial materials. The site also offers a platform for numerous columnists who promote anti-Semitic 9/11 conspiracy theories, as well as Duff’s own screeds.” how would Gordon duff even know? did he sit next to bales in church maybe? interview him in prison? what? the point being, he doesn't, and couldn't know. Other than that, bales is like hausner; there is nothing online that shows/discusses his Christian worldview, or lack thereof. What’s more, there are numerous accounts of bales, in response to the killings, saying he has no memory of it, and doesn’t know why he did it. I read that Charles Whitman was an altar boy as a youth, and was married in a catholic ceremony, which implies a regular presence in the catholic church. That alone however does not make him a Christian, and then later in life he is reported as having said “Fr. Leduc met with Whitman for the last time two months prior to the shootings and said that Whitman had confided that he had lost his faith, and no longer considered himself a practicing Catholic.” So not only do we not know if he was a christian, he renounced his Catholicism as well. http://murderpedia.org/male.W/w/whitman-charles.htm I confess I don’t know who/what you mean by “kohl” and I cant find anything by looking. But given the track record above, im pretty confident I don’t have to. Last thing---what leftists who complain about such things just don’t seem to get: there is a huge difference (all the difference in the world actually) between a person who does something in obedience to/inspired by his faith, and one who acts in complete opposition to it. “Christian terrorist” or “Christian murderer” is an oxymoron.

Sanity -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 12:24:36 PM)
Most of the leftists on here just throw out nonsense bounty, because they are incapable of fact-based debate Garbled nonsense, disinformation, blatant ad hominems, straw men... Reasoned articulate discussion of the issues? Not so much.

freedomdwarf1 -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 12:45:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Most of the leftists on here just throw out nonsense bounty, because they are incapable of fact-based debate Garbled nonsense, disinformation, blatant ad hominems, straw men... Reasoned articulate discussion of the issues? Not so much. And you think your extreme rightist comments are any better??

joether -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 12:48:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Most of the leftists on here just throw out nonsense bounty, because they are incapable of fact-based debate Garbled nonsense, disinformation, blatant ad hominems, straw men... Reasoned articulate discussion of the issues? Not so much. So spoken by the individual that....NEVER....gets his facts straight....

Sanity -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 12:56:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: freedomdwarf1 quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Most of the leftists on here just throw out nonsense bounty, because they are incapable of fact-based debate Garbled nonsense, disinformation, blatant ad hominems, straw men... Reasoned articulate discussion of the issues? Not so much. And you think your extreme rightist comments are any better?? Absolutely they are, yes.

Sanity -> RE: Three Muslims shot (2/14/2015 12:57:34 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: joether quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity Most of the leftists on here just throw out nonsense bounty, because they are incapable of fact-based debate Garbled nonsense, disinformation, blatant ad hominems, straw men... Reasoned articulate discussion of the issues? Not so much. So spoken by the individual that....NEVER....gets his facts straight.... Its fitting as well as funny that you responded with an ad hominem

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