Are we heading towards WWIII?

Are we heading towards WWIII? (Full Version)

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MariaB -> Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 4:12:47 AM)
It looks like the ceasefire in the Ukraine is once again falling apart. The Russian media are talking about going nuclear against America http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11412878/Putin-Will-he-go-nuclear.html and right now we are about as close to WWIII as we were during the Cuban crisis. What do you think?

NorthernGent -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 4:30:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB It looks like the ceasefire in the Ukraine is once again falling apart. The Russian media are talking about going nuclear against America http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11412878/Putin-Will-he-go-nuclear.html and right now we are about as close to WWIII as we were during the Cuban crisis. What do you think? I think our government, establishment and middle class, including The Telegraph's journalists; have no love for Russia and would like to see that sentiment exported abroad, particularly among powerful allies.

MariaB -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 5:26:23 AM)
We all get different parts of the news depending on where we look for that news. If we read the trash tabloids its unlikely we will have much awareness of what's going on in the Ukraine in these present times. By just dismissing an article because its in the Telegraph or the Observer or any other reasonable broad sheet just because it has an extreme view, (which this particular article has) is surely burying ones head in the sand. The brokers of this peace deal are absolutely terrified of the consequences regarding the possibility of a 3rd world war; they have prostituted themselves for peace. The French and the Germans have hammered out a deal with the Russians to ensure peace, so the Ukrainians are now puppets to the French and Germans who want them to comply with the Russians. The Ukrainian people won't tolerate this and so a cease fire is unlikely to get off the ground. There are no good results that are going to come out of this. The last thing Europe wants is Russia marching towards its borders. The message that is being given to the Russian people right now (its easy enough to translate Russian newspapers) is one that is preparing them for an invasion of Europe and perhaps even nuclear war. We can choose to ignore certain angles of this story if we wish but where do you think this is going to go?

NorthernGent -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 5:54:40 AM)
My understanding is that there is no uniform view among the Ukranian people. Some lean towards Russia, particularly those in the East of the country; others lean towards the EU and the West. Some are Russian speakers first and foremost, and consider themselves to be culturally Russian. The areas that were formerly part of Poland, well, they're a different kettle of fish; and like the Poles are not big fans of the Russians. What we have is a couple of countries cobbled together into one, lacking a shared culture and aspirations. In terms of who started this, well, it was the West, meddling in foreign affairs as per usual. As for burying my head in the sand, I have a life to live and I'm not remotely interested in any pack of idiots who can't negotiate without resort to threat of war. I would also add that all of this is part of a wider strategy to isolate Russia, and the Russians, in my view, are being baited and out-manoeuvred.

subrob1967 -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 5:58:58 AM)
We're already in WWIII, and have been since the first failed bombing of the WTC. my prediction is it will remain non nuclear unless Iran or one of these psycho groups like ISIS gets ahold of a Paki or Indian nuke.

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 6:13:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB We can choose to ignore certain angles of this story if we wish but where do you think this is going to go? Maria, I tend to concern myself with things I have power/control over. I have a very good friend that is a quantum physicist, he used to be a biochemical engineer for the air force and the projects he worked on left him with a doomsday phobia that was crippling. He became a quantum physicist to focus on exploring things that could only be explained in theory... he was powerless over the things he engineered in his past and wanted to focus on something that he had absolutely no power over in his present, just completely in the realm of theory. One day we were in a coffee shop and he was researching the transition of our solar system as it passed through the galactic midheaven and he grabbed my arm with a look of panic on his face. He said, "wow, too many events are coinciding in this event... odds are good our planet is going to be irradiated as we transition below the midheaven." Doomsday phobia was crawling all over him. I said, "do you have a specific time that this is going to hit?" he said, "um... no, but I may be able to get a time frame together for it." I said, "great!!" he said, "What do you mean "great? there is nothing we can do, no where to hide from it, we are all going to die". I said, "yep, and that is exactly why me, the GF, and that waitress are going to be fucking when it hits." He looked at me like I had lost my mind completely and I told him, look, I cannot control such an event, but I can control how I go out in such an event, and I choose to go out fucking both of them. He pondered this for days and came over to my cabin and said, I've been alone for a very long time cuz the world is just so wacked out and I've been thinking about what you said. I've been looking for the next cataclysm... one right after the other and I forgot to live. I think I need a wife. I said, at the very least, you need some steady trim. The moral of the story is you can spend your life dodging the bullets that you can dodge (illiterate bullets scare me, so I stay out of war zones), but when the bullet has your name on it, it has your ass. I live and WW3 only has the power to change how I do so, and I have no power over it. I focus on what I have power over... which is a lot, really, but I keep my reach beyond my grasp and do not grasp for straws. If WW3 happens, I hope it waits until my girl comes home, cuz when the nuke siren is wailing, I am going out with a bang. Jus sayin

MariaB -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 6:48:10 AM)
Enough people on here worry about ISIS and of course, the difference is, lone wolves could attack us on the street; though the likelihood of that happening is pretty remote. Virtually every thread in this section of CS is to discuss topics we can do nothing about. Whilst I can accept that I can't do anything about what is happening between the west and Russia at this moment in time, it does make for interesting discussion...at least elsewhere. NorthernGent said: In terms of who started this, well, it was the West, meddling in foreign affairs as per usual. Could you please elaborate on that?

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 6:57:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB Enough people on here worry about ISIS and of course, the difference is, lone wolves could attack us on the street; though the likelihood of that happening is pretty remote. Virtually every thread in this section of CS is to discuss topics we can do nothing about. Whilst I can accept that I can't do anything about what is happening between the west and Russia at this moment in time, it does make for interesting discussion...at least elsewhere. NorthernGent said: In terms of who started this, well, it was the West, meddling in foreign affairs as per usual. Could you please elaborate on that? There are many threads that people can do something about, but they'd rather just bitch and [sm=slappy.gif] rather than take the actions they are capable of taking. I cannot speak for those outside the US, but here we have the ability to effect change, you just have to have the tenacity to do it.

MariaB -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 7:13:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB Enough people on here worry about ISIS and of course, the difference is, lone wolves could attack us on the street; though the likelihood of that happening is pretty remote. Virtually every thread in this section of CS is to discuss topics we can do nothing about. Whilst I can accept that I can't do anything about what is happening between the west and Russia at this moment in time, it does make for interesting discussion...at least elsewhere. NorthernGent said: In terms of who started this, well, it was the West, meddling in foreign affairs as per usual. Could you please elaborate on that? There are many threads that people can do something about, but they'd rather just bitch and [sm=slappy.gif] rather than take the actions they are capable of taking. I cannot speak for those outside the US, but here we have the ability to effect change, you just have to have the tenacity to do it. And there are many that we can't. Are you suggesting we shouldn't discuss things we can do nothing about? or are you saying we shouldn't worry about things we can do nothing about?

ExiledTyrant -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 7:21:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB quote: ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB Enough people on here worry about ISIS and of course, the difference is, lone wolves could attack us on the street; though the likelihood of that happening is pretty remote. Virtually every thread in this section of CS is to discuss topics we can do nothing about. Whilst I can accept that I can't do anything about what is happening between the west and Russia at this moment in time, it does make for interesting discussion...at least elsewhere. NorthernGent said: In terms of who started this, well, it was the West, meddling in foreign affairs as per usual. Could you please elaborate on that? There are many threads that people can do something about, but they'd rather just bitch and [sm=slappy.gif] rather than take the actions they are capable of taking. I cannot speak for those outside the US, but here we have the ability to effect change, you just have to have the tenacity to do it. And there are many that we can't. Are you suggesting we shouldn't discuss things we can do nothing about? or are you saying we shouldn't worry about things we can do nothing about? Nope. What I am doing is giving people permission to not sweat the stuff they don't have to sweat. Everyone is going to choose to do what is best for them, and I choose to minimize the stress in my life. I have no control over world movement, but I do have influence over local/state/national movement and I choose the battles I wish to fight. I don't often came down here because my world is a different world, I embrace things that make me happy, not the things that will give me a stroke. How are you going to deal with WW3? If I were to speculate, I'd say you and yours will be on that ship (assuming it is 40' or more). Jus sayin

MariaB -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 7:43:25 AM)
I'm not saying you should be worried about it. Its absolutely fine to ignore things we can do nothing about and its fine to discuss it with interested parties too. That of course doesn't have to be on this site. I haven't been here for some time because I've been spending more time on a British political forum group that's more vocal but less aggressive (regarding personal insults) than here. People do want to discuss what is going on in the Ukraine, they just don't want to discuss it on here and that's fine. :)

darkwanderer3305 -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 7:45:17 AM)
Mankind has always flirted with its own suicidal existence since the first monkey picked up a rock to use as a weapon (or, since Cain killed Abel; if that's your belief system). We've gotten close; quite a few times. But, we haven't managed to kill the entire population of the planet yet. In fact, the population is far too large; and growing daily. As for WWIII being on our doorstep right now; well, my mindset is one I learned growing up in the '80s. Back when I was in school we had "nuke drills". During these sessions we practiced what we would do if a nuclear war started while we were in class. It was really simple. The teachers led us into the hallway. Then, we all sat, backs against the wall, and put our heads between our knees. This position was supposed to give our bodies the best chance of avoiding/surviving falling debris. But, we all knew better. What that drill really told us is that, try as we might, if it comes; all you can do is put your head between your legs and kiss your ass goodbye. So, with that lesson firmly in mind, I conduct myself as if such an event won't happen today. And, if it does, I know what to do. And, if you believe in an afterlife, you have got to see how freaking kewl it will be to get to the other side and tell the other souls that you were one of the "last batch"; that you got to see/experience the end of the human race. Then, we can all kick back and watch as the cockroaches eat the leftover twinkies, which are radioactive; causing the roaches to evolve into the next species to rule the Earth...

Zonie63 -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 8:16:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB It looks like the ceasefire in the Ukraine is once again falling apart. The Russian media are talking about going nuclear against America http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11412878/Putin-Will-he-go-nuclear.html and right now we are about as close to WWIII as we were during the Cuban crisis. What do you think? It's just rhetoric, kind of like how Western leaders talk about bombing people "back to the Stone Age." I think the Russians just want to give the West something to chew on for a while. Putin probably also needs some sort of external enemy to bolster his own position; Russia's economy is not doing well, so he has to come up with something. I don't think the West should take it too lightly, though. Since the breakup of the Soviet Union, we've been treading dangerously close by absorbing the Baltic Republics and several former Warsaw Pact states into NATO, as well as involvement in the dispute between Georgia and Russia a while back. Now, with this Ukraine thing going on, it's understandable that they would feel cornered and encroached upon. While there's no love lost between the Russians and Ukrainians, their history with each other is quite complicated and is older than America itself. It's not something that we really want to be messing with at this juncture. Our resources are not inexhaustible, we are not invincible, and there are limits as to how much power we can actually project around the world. Still, I don't think the Russians are as crazy as some might think. I don't think they'd launch an all-out aggressive war against the West, but they are drawing a line and telling us in no uncertain terms that they're through taking shit. They may be daring us to cross that line, but I don't think we should take the bait. Even if the Russians do manage to take over all of Ukraine, they're going to have their hands full trying to control it.

joether -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 9:07:14 AM)
First off, it would be WW4, not WW3. We already did WW3. We won, the bad guys lost. Second, Putin is not an idiot, not surrounds himself with idiots. They are fully aware and educated on the militarizes of the world. They understand that to much aggression will backfire onto them with great strength and focus. As they have people living in their countries the same as anywhere else. The Russian people are like the Chinese, Germans and Americans. They want to live in peace. Raise their children to be the grandparents of the generation after. To live without financial or physical burden/pain. They do not want war, like anyone else. Since it would be they themselves or their children doing the fighting. Why should they loses their lives because some moron cant remain cool under fire? That nations have placed sanctions as a way of saying "like your economy downgraded? Its because your leaders are being idiots." An it shows that higher levels can readily be brought to bear. The Russians known enough what an economic depression feels like; its not fun. So they would be more than likely to dissuade others from being foolish. If anything is a greater threat than Putin and his policies, its climate change. No, not going to hijack the thread here. Anyone that wishes to discuss this topic...TAKE IT TO ANOTHER THREAD.....pretty please with sugar on top! Its easy to see the threats that are visible, but not the ones we are not knowledgeable on. Unfortunately, the unknown can do more damage over the long term.

KenDckey -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 10:43:10 AM)
I believe that we are in a world war. I think it started back with the original bombmings of the world trade center and embassies and the hijackings of aircraft and vessels. Just my 2 cents.

MercTech -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 12:06:57 PM)
World War III, we are much closer. The Piled higher and deeper crowd has acknowledged it. http://www.citizen-times.com/story/opinion/contributors/2015/02/13/doomsday-clock-makes-ominous-move/23365355/ As to the Ukraine; the majority ethnic Russian population has tried for over 150 years to tie themselves to Russia. Over and over, outside powers have thwarted the efforts. Now that the Ukraine hosts a major pipeline to Europe for Siberian oil, it is a matter of control of resources. If you go back to the Crimean War you can see just how long this issue has been festering. I can't see the U.S. having any business putting our dogs in that hunt.

cloudboy -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 12:34:15 PM)
I don't have the same the feeling. The fact is, the US have very little to do with what's happening in the Ukraine --- and it's role is a fantasy of Russia's political propaganda. When I studied Russian and visited the country six times between 1985 - 1994, few Russians believed the cooked up news in their own papers and TV. The difference now is, the propaganda is much more audience / sensational / entertainment based than before, that it does stir up the nut-job faction of the country much like Fox News does here. Back to the question, the whole point of NUKES is not to use them but to maintain the threat and fear of their use. So, since their development, there has not been anything approximating a world war since.

slvemike4u -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 3:08:23 PM)
To the OP...short answer..No There is only one global super power left.In fact there was only the one all along,we just didn't know it at the time.

LookieNoNookie -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 3:16:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MariaB It looks like the ceasefire in the Ukraine is once again falling apart. The Russian media are talking about going nuclear against America http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/11412878/Putin-Will-he-go-nuclear.html and right now we are about as close to WWIII as we were during the Cuban crisis. What do you think? I'm not sure, but I think it was the Secretary of State in Woodrow Wilson's term that said "the (don't remember the country's named) won't go to war with us...they have far too much commerce between nations...it isn't profitable for them to go to war with us...there's far to much risk in losing their investments" and of course, in late 1917, they (and we) did exactly that. So, is WW3 inevitable? Uh Huh...at some point. Are the world's intertwined finances enough to stop same? Ahhhhhhh.....nope. Ferdinand Marcos proved that. As to when? Probably within the next 50 years. In our lifetime? Depends on how old you are. Countries/men/people.....still do (and will continue to do) unbelievably stooopit shit. (History....and the reading of same...hasn't absolved people from doing....stooopit shit).

NorthernGent -> RE: Are we heading towards WWIII? (2/15/2015 11:57:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie I'm not sure, but I think it was the Secretary of State in Woodrow Wilson's term that said "the (don't remember the country's named) won't go to war with us...they have far too much commerce between nations...it isn't profitable for them to go to war with us...there's far to much risk in losing their investments" and of course, in late 1917, they (and we) did exactly that. So, is WW3 inevitable? By 1917, the Americans had invested heavily in/gambled on a British win. What was owed to them by other countries paled into insignificance. We had borrowed money for ourselves and to pass to the French and Italians. The Russian Revolution meant that for the first time the Germans would have the numerical advantage on the Western Front, so there was a genuine prospect of the US not realising their return from Britain. There are similarities with Russia today and Germany then. Germany then felt backed into a corner, some would argue it was real and others perceived, so they arrived at the conclusion that they had nowhere to go but war. Similarly, the Russians today feel backed into a corner, with the Western alliance moving farther East. The obvious difference is that at the outset of WW1 the assumption was that it would be over by Christmas, and no one had any idea how destructive and costly it would turn out. So, I suppose the lesson from WW1 is a country may try a nuclear war providing it feels backed into a corner, it can afford to lose the opponent as a financial partner and it perceives, not necessarily real of course, that it can get it done with the minimum of damage to herself.

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