RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (Full Version)

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NookieNotes -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/20/2015 8:17:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MariaB
quote:

Nookie
That's why I do what I do: the love of discussion, and to provide more than a 2-dimensional view/opinion of various kinks.

And you do it so well. There are very few people that have kept me on these boards and your one of them :)


Awww. Squee!

TYVM




DesFIP -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/20/2015 9:25:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RockaRolla
I disagree. Cheating (the way I see it) comes into play when one partner breaks a pre-determined agreement of their relationship.

As an example, it is for this reason that cheating is still possible in an open relationship. I'm in a relationship where sex with other partners is OK, but I must be straightforward and honest about it. If I were to sleep with my other partner, that's fine. But if I were to sleep with someone new and not tell my boyfriend? Then I'd be cheating. But it's not the sex that makes it cheating, but the fact I didn't let him know. I'd still be cheating if all we did was kiss/fondle each other and no penetrative/oral/whatever sex was involved.


I didn't say it was morally right. But if you break an agreement with your partner about discretionary spending and spend more than your $50 limit on a new purse, I wouldn't call that cheating. I would say it indicates you have problems in your relationship because you didn't talk it over and offer to spend nothing next week and apply that fifty towards the $100 new purse you want this week.

Cheating involves sex. If the guy sees a pretty woman in a commercial and gets a boner, is he cheating? He's getting sexually aroused by someone other than his partner, sure, but to me it isn't cheating.






satanscharmer -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/20/2015 10:31:34 AM)

Now that it appears as though the heated debates have dissipated...

I try to stay to the non-anti side, provided they're legal. Even then, though, there are exceptions as I find some laws to be ridiculous and extremely out of date. There are always gray areas with me.

I have my own set of standards and morals that are ideal to me, for me to stick to. I don't like to choose, decide, dictate, or make a judgement as to what is right or wrong for others. It seems to me that taking the moral superiority stance would be too incredibly exhausting and disappointing. Setting goals for other people is unrealistic. People make mistakes and I'm okay with that. That's how we learn and grow - even in the matter of cheating. People want to live their lives according to what makes them happy, and I'm more than okay with that. I certainly wouldn't want anyone having a say in what it is that I do that makes me happy, or pass judgement because I never agreed to follow their opinion of what is right or wrong.

I may, from time-to-time, provide reasons as why I think something might be a bad idea, but that's because I'm a logical thinker that tends to weigh the pros and cons of anything. I don't even take my own suggestions as definitive because, again, there are always gray areas, so I certainly wouldn't expect someone else to.

I'm not religious, but if there is a God I leave the judging up to him/her.
I prefer to surround myself with people having the same thoughts as above, or at the very least with the same morals so that judgement is unlikely to take place. I don't like being judged, but it happens.

People being anti-this or anti-that is nothing new, so I'm not surprised that it spills over into here.




PeonForHer -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/20/2015 10:51:22 AM)

quote:

Cheating involves sex. If the guy sees a pretty woman in a commercial and gets a boner, is he cheating? He's getting sexually aroused by someone other than his partner, sure, but to me it isn't cheating.


But if he regularly goes to see a woman with whom he acts in a way that gives him a boner, and regularly releases feelings and passions that she doesn't know anything about, therefore has a fundamental emotional connection that she herself doesn't have with him ... yep, I can see why she might call that 'cheating'. Moreover, she might feel even more aggrieved than if she'd caught him out in a straightforward vanilla bonk with, say, his secretary.

Well, put it this way: if I were to have discovered that any of my vanilla exes had been secretly and regularly visiting another male to sub to him ... I would, at best, not be happy.

Which reminds me, and this addressed to prodommes: a while ago, whenever this subject came up, some prodommes would declare that they'd only take on a new, married client with the approval of his wife. Some of them would even say that they'd demand to see that wife and get the words from her own mouth. Is this normal practice now - or was it ever?




MariaB -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/20/2015 11:24:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer


Which reminds me, and this addressed to prodommes: a while ago, whenever this subject came up, some prodommes would declare that they'd only take on a new, married client with the approval of his wife. Some of them would even say that they'd demand to see that wife and get the words from her own mouth. Is this normal practice now - or was it ever?




I’m very suspicious of how this would be possible. Having worked as a pro Domme I know how easy it is to lose an enquiring client, especially if you are their first. I can’t tell you how many “new to pro dome clients” were terrified when they make that first enquiry. If I’d asked any of these guys if they were married, I’m in no doubt that they would of put the phone down on me because as much as they want that pleasure of seeing a pro Domme, they need the reassurance that your trustworthy and discreet. You just don’t ask them things about their private life. If they want to offer that information up then fine but the pro Dommes initial job is to ensure implicit trust and professionalism.

They want to come along and pay the fee, get what they paid for and leave.

I have to admit Peon, I've heard some really odd things on here from people claiming to be pro Dommes.







PeonForHer -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/20/2015 11:52:09 AM)

quote:

I have to admit Peon, I've heard some really odd things on here from people claiming to be pro Dommes.


Yep. The ones I've got to know off the boards have sometimes revealed things that have been a little - shall we say - at variance with what they've said *on* the boards.




xGoddessIsisX -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/20/2015 12:26:08 PM)

Such as? I am a real Pro and Lifestle Domme and I present Myself how I am. Am I a rarity?
Goddess Isis




MariaB -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/20/2015 1:15:03 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xGoddessIsisX

Such as? I am a real Pro and Lifestle Domme and I present Myself how I am. Am I a rarity?
Goddess Isis


I have no idea because I don't know how you present yourself.




PeonForHer -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/20/2015 1:27:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: xGoddessIsisX

Such as? I am a real Pro and Lifestle Domme and I present Myself how I am. Am I a rarity?
Goddess Isis


No, I don't think I'll go there, GI, if you don't mind. ;-)




RemoteUser -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/21/2015 4:52:18 PM)

To the original post/OP:

Anti-X opinions on the individual level are just the expression of a single collective of views from one person in the crowd. The general consensus as expressed on these boards over the years is that the individual's opinion is sacrosanct in terms of validity, as is any dissenting opinion refuting the initial expression. Anyone can agree or disagree with anyone. (So far, common sense is in the lead.)

Anti-X opinions on the group level from a factual standpoint is just a number of individual opinions that happen to agree with one another. From a social standpoint, it all goes to shit by translation and perception. We see trends whether there is one or not. We form opinions on the trends we see, again, whether there is one or not. By perceived agreement over one commonly shared opinion, we practice unestablished camaraderie by doling out comments against what is perceived as the opposing movement...again, whether there is one or not. Lines get drawn in the sand to mark the "opposing sides" that are artficially born from two differing expressions. In the rare instance, the tribes band together and the flaming comments begin. (The history of the Introductions section bears silent testimony to this.) Or to be topically salient with modern trends:

50 Shades
Findommes
Healthcare (in the US)
Subs vs Slaves
The One True Way
SSC or RACK

There are more, of course, and some are heavier than others (like chosen social structures - Poly or Gor, anyone?), but I think that little list carries enough weight all on its own.

How the individual chooses to express themselves, with compliance, butthurt, bashing, or any other reactive commentary, speaks to the individual (as Bear pointed out quite nicely - thank you Bear, always a pleasure). That is entirely outside of the general consensus or the manner in which a community chooses to organize itself (like the little ongoing social experiment that is the forums). How a community reacts tends to speak more to the aforementioned trends (however viable), how the individual components of that communal organism contribute, and yes, how the mods govern the forums.

Why a person bothers to care is really summed up by their own code of criteria that defines their chosen sets and subsets of behaviour. They react based on their belief system as channeled through what they perceive as proper social interaction. As long as that channeling is done in a way that doesn't break the rules, the mods will let it pass; and the rest is up to all the rest of us and how WE choose to react in turn (by governing ourselves and our influence through communication).

Personally, I need a reason to care. When the reason is there, I express myself (and not always stupidly, but hey, I've had my moments). I think the reason I've gotten better at avoiding pitfalls in how I express myself is due in large part to my motives. As I get older I find it's not so important to "win". It's far more satisfying to speak my opinion and let it stand on its own merits. I don't have to make a person agree with me, I don't need to convince them I'm really the one in the right. I still call shenanigans when I see them as such, though, out of a sense of wanting to conduct a fair conversation where both parties have the ability to listen and learn. I can't make anyone do either, of course (not ethically, at least, and not without some consent from the other side), but some effort is still made to point out anything that detracts from the conversation because right or wrong, the key is to share ideas to grow and learn. Otherwise, y'all pissing in the wind.

Case in point: I am entirely unapologetic about my essay. [:D] If you can't read it all, so be it, but I'm quite ok with taking the time to clearly speak my thoughts.

As to the subtopic of fidelity - fidelity is a social construct. Yes, it can be influenced by religion, but birds aren't religious and yet they can still be monogamous or wild whores depending on the species. The society reacts in the way it thinks will protect its own best interests. (Diehard evolutionists might say animals conduct fidelity solely by natural selection and that humans don't; if anyone nibbles on that worm, I'll take the stance that humans are no different from animals when it comes to having certain genetic reactions geared towards survival and selection.)

As an individual I choose to be fidelitous. My view comes from the acknowledgement that I want a fidelitous partner, I believe in leading by example, and so I set the example. I can see being poly and fidelitous quite easily, because it's how the individuals involved in that relationship agree to define fidelity. Just because I'm a fan of fidelity doesn't mean I think that my view is the be all and end all of the topic, and I would never tell anyone else how to live their life because in relation to their life, really, who the fuck am I? If infidelity works for you, fine, if you do it and it doesn't work, that may be consequence rearing its ugly head to say I told you so. Same goes for those who try poly and cuckolding; if it works for you and yours, then all the best to you. If you try it and it doesn't work, reconsider what you're doing and whether you should be doing it (motivation creeps back into the topic).

The need to be right pretty much sums up all negative connotations that apply to the word deluge I've conjured up so far. Self discipline and integrity define how it's handled. Successful communication makes it all moot. (Yes, I just summed it all in a handful of words. Still unapologetic.)




ExiledTyrant -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/21/2015 5:08:52 PM)

[sm=applause.gif]

quote:

The need to be right


First, brilliant post.

Second, it is all about my need to be right... to be right for me. I can happily and accept the "right" that belongs to someone else, and as long as my "right" is respected we're golden.

Regardless of X (pro-dom, chicken suit fetish, etc.) it is their "right" and that does not make it wrong, just wrong for you.




RemoteUser -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/21/2015 5:43:17 PM)

Oh hell, I can accept your rights. The key is knowing I'm not "righter", innit?

Cuz right and wrong be the bitches that conspire to bring about BLAME. What an ugly thing, that. I'd rather blame myself for arguing your wrongness than blame you for having an opinion.

We all need mirrors. Eínai af̱tó den eínai alí̱theia?




usememistress775 -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/21/2015 6:54:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RemoteUser

Oh hell, I can accept your rights. The key is knowing I'm not "righter", innit?

Cuz right and wrong be the bitches that conspire to bring about BLAME. What an ugly thing, that. I'd rather blame myself for arguing your wrongness than blame you for having an opinion.

We all need mirrors. Eínai af̱tó den eínai alí̱theia?


Whoa whoa whoa... I feel just violated.

Your saying that I can't be the "rightest"? I'm insulted by that insinuation. Also because you made me use google translate.




RemoteUser -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/21/2015 7:36:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: usememistress775

I feel just violated.


Mission accomplished.




GotSteel -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/22/2015 5:23:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant
Case in point, there is a lot of anti-pro domme floating around, and yet business at the bunny ranch is booming. Why would anyone be anti-pro domme, it's either you use them or you don't... why the butt hurt?


I'm not anti-pro domme, I think sex work should be legal including prostitution. I am anti-spam, having watched the spammers wreck myspace and alt I'm not a fan of the same trend going on here.




shiftyw -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/22/2015 8:08:52 AM)

^ that I can agree with GS...




ExiledTyrant -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/22/2015 8:09:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

^ that I can agree with GS...


You joygasm slut!

You're just here to push it to 10 pages. Confess!!!!!




shiftyw -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/22/2015 8:13:26 AM)

Nah, spamming sucks. I hate when people post thinly veiled personals on here. Wether they say "hey pay pigs, I'm here to be worshipped!" Or "subbie looking to someone to stomp on my balls!"

It's like, look around first, it is clearly not here for that.




ExiledTyrant -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/22/2015 8:14:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: shiftyw

Nah, spamming sucks. I hate when people post thinly veiled personals on here. Wether they say "hey pay pigs, I'm here to be worshipped!" Or "subbie looking to someone to stomp on my balls!"

It's like, look around first, it is clearly not here for that.


I agree. I also hate potholes in the road so I watch for them and avoid them.




TieMeInKnottss -> RE: The Anti-Anything Crowd (2/22/2015 9:17:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ExiledTyrant

Aside from the illegal crap which I am very anti... being anti-lifestyle stuff seems to me more pro-butt hurt.

Case in point, there is a lot of anti-pro domme floating around, and yet business at the bunny ranch is booming. Why would anyone be anti-pro domme, it's either you use them or you don't... why the butt hurt?

Now, I am not a Top. I am sick and twisted Primal bastard that gets my freak on... and it is a big freak, once I own her. If I were to play in public it would not resemble consent at all from the outsider looking in, but she knows what she got herself into and did so happily.

That said, there is a HUGE list of things that have no interest for me and things that just squick me the fuck out, but I am not anti-X. Hey, if it is your thing, wooohooo, go get your happy on. For me it is not about "tolerating" X it is about "accepting" X as your thing a it's okay... not my thing, I do not have to participate, and I can wear my big boy underoos and choose to avoid it rather than condemn it.

So wot is it with the Anti-X movement?

Jus wunderin

P.S. they're fucking spider man, not sponge bob, you sick fuckers!


Part of it, IMHO, is that some people want to be "unique". They want to be against anything they see as mainstream and they like the attention they get from being "anti" and "edgy". I agree with the poster that said some people just have to feel better than or on a higher moral ground than others (I guess you could say their kink is being superior[:D]). I think you have always had these people running around but in past generations a great stock was put into being too well mannered to TELL someone why they were wrong and you were right. Now, people feel that not only are others ENTITLED to their opinions BUT that the person who receives their opinion must then VALIDATE them in return.

ET, I am like you...I think what I think and know WHY I believe in it and it really does not matter to me whether others agree or not. I have no need for strangers to validate my positions.

I often lurk around the boards regarding religion and current events because these are topics I have an avid interest in and spend a great deal of time reading up on, following...but I won't enter the fray because most posters are not interested in just a spirited exchange of ideas and active debate...they want to hammer others into just AGREEING with them. My personal feeling is that they are not comfortable with their own opinion.

There is a whole other category of people who honestly believe it is their destiny, religious calling...to FORCE others to see the light. They believe that they are endangering their own salvation by NOT saving others, by allowing immortality to exist. Charles Aked said "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing"** and biblical sentiment that it is a human responsibility to oppose evil... These people are your toughest nuts to crack because they believe not getting you to agree with them damns them to hell

** I am NOT interested in a lengthy debate over whether the "evil triumph" quote was originally attributed to Edmund Burke, whether Akad's quote was a reformulation of Burk's "bad men combine" or Mills "bad men need nothing more...". I am sticking to the Akad attribution".




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